Which idiot was it who got the ball rolling to denigrate the Father of our country?

[JLM]

See, that's your mistake. We mostly moved the Indians to hardpan desert and told them they were to farm it.

Yep, there's geographical variations for sure! There's an old adage that says, "You make use of what you got".

As far as McDonald goes, I don't hold much of an opinion either way.

The history books provide one side of things (generally the shiny nice side), however, the accuracy of these accounts is heavily dependent on the objectivity of the author.... Call me skeptical but for the above reason, I don't generally buy into the story line that easily

That said, he did contribute to some significant achievements during his time and despite his documented appetite for alcohol, well, I don't see him as all that different than many people or politicians today in that regard.

Exactly - Good bad or ugly he's part of the history of Canada. What really gets me pissed off is people today who are so presumptuous as to think they can rate a person from 150 years ago. There's an old saying..................."Don't judge a man until you've walked a mile - (ooops 1.61 kilometers) in his shoes". Well, there ain't no "shoes" around today like the ones worn 150 years ago.

 

[Danbones]

Ol' John A. and an alcoholic ndn would drink about the same as any alcoholic would.

 

[Curious Cdn]

This "ban John A." movement is brought to you by the same Marxist Teacher's union that wanted to have Israel listed as a terrorist organization a couple of years back.... as if a teachers union should even be commenting on stuff like that in the first place.

 

[WLDB]

It's beyond the f**king pale! Someone obviously thinks he/she has the wisdom to judge actions and events of 150 years ago. Some people obviously need to learn to leave well enough alone. Anything/one that is worthwhile has a few scars and warts attached! That's life! Get used to it!

And there is nothing wrong with pointing out those scars and warts, particularly not when they've been largely overlooked. As you say, that's life - get used to it.

Whatever he did he was part of our history! Anyway you are missing the main point........................He's NOT here to defend himself!

He was and no one is trying to change that as it's simply impossible to change what happened. As for not being here to defend himself, by that logic we shouldn't bother looking at any history outside of living memory or try to learn from it, both from the good and bad.

He could well be a rotten bastard, but should WE be making that judgment?

Yes, we should. As his contemporaries should have and every generation since then. You look back at what happened, learn about what happened and draw conclusions from it. That is the job of historians. Views of these things change over time and will continue to do so in the future.

He wasn't a Mormon polygamist as far as I know. And even if he was, I can assure you that not every Canadian traces his lineage back to MacDonald. Besides, with his drinking, he probably suffered ED.

That would explain his problems with women.

I don't think anyone is defending that. If we eradicate MacDonald who is going to be next? Harding, Grant, Nixon? Christopher Columbus made a huge f**k up too.....................thought he was in India when he was really in the Caribean! History is history, we can judge it, we can learn from it but we can't change it. Look at all the hundreds of explorers of Canada, did all of them treat the Indians kindly? I doubt it. Should we erase their names from the history books?

No one anywhere is suggesting erasing those names or figures from the history books.

Well, It really depends on if you don't mind taking the chance of being culturally exterminated. Its not something you leave in the hands of others to choose. Maybe we have a responsibility to adequately defend ourselves.

I'm fine with it so long as it happens after I'm dead. I'm pretty indifferent to what happens after I'm dead, seeing as I'll be dead.

 

[JLM]

No one anywhere is suggesting erasing those names or figures from the history books.

Only an imbecile would think that once John A. is expunged, that's where it will stop!

Yes, we should. As his contemporaries should have and every generation since then. You look back at what happened, learn about what happened and draw conclusions from it. That is the job of historians. Views of these things change over time and will continue to do so in the future.

Pretty tough to accurately judge people/events from another era when the standards were different, not to mention that a lot that went on was hearsay!

 

[Cliffy]

I'm still trying to figure out why this bigot, who just happened to be the first PM of Canada, is the father of our so called nation. We wonder why white supremacy is still alive and well in the 21st century: it never died. Just look at this thread. It is nose deep in white supremacist, bigoted shit.

 

[pgs]

I'm still trying to figure out why this bigot, who just happened to be the first PM of Canada, is the father of our so called nation. We wonder why white supremacy is still alive and well in the 21st century: it never died. Just look at this thread. It is nose deep in white supremacist, bigoted shit.

Well go flog yourself , and atone for our sins . perhaps spend 30 days in Kamloops .

 

[Curious Cdn]

I'm still trying to figure out why this bigot, who just happened to be the first PM of Canada, is the father of our so called nation. We wonder why white supremacy is still alive and well in the 21st century: it never died. Just look at this thread. It is nose deep in white supremacist, bigoted shit.

How did the father of Canada's health care system become so keen on eugenics and preventing "inferiors" from reproducing?

Tommy Douglas’s enthusiasm for eugenics being airbrushed by Canadians: MD | National Post

The Eugenics Archive


Maybe, it is disingenuous to judge yesterday by what we know today. In MacDonald's time, everyone was a bigot. In TC Douglas's time, the poor and mentally challenged should be sterilised.

 

[justlooking]

I'm still trying to figure out why this bigot, who just happened to be the first PM of Canada, is the father of our so called nation. We wonder why white supremacy is still alive and well in the 21st century: it never died. Just look at this thread. It is nose deep in white supremacist, bigoted shit.

Don't worry Cliffy, FNs are getting more irrelevant every year, as the population grows, and other groups get more power than you.
In a couple of years, you won't be talked about... at all.

 

[mentalfloss]

Don't worry Cliffy, FNs are getting more irrelevant every year, as the population grows, and other groups get more power than you.
In a couple of years, you won't be talked about... at all.

Are you some kind of idiot? Lol

 

[gerryh]

Don't worry Cliffy, FNs are getting more irrelevant every year, as the population grows, and other groups get more power than you.
In a couple of years, you won't be talked about... at all.

You do realize that cliffy doesn't have an ounce of FN blood in him, right? He's a wannabe.

 

[JLM]

Don't worry Cliffy, FNs are getting more irrelevant every year, as the population grows, and other groups get more power than you.
In a couple of years, you won't be talked about... at all.

One thing about your many posts, you won't be mistaken for a direct descendant of Einstein anytime soon!

I'm still trying to figure out why this bigot, who just happened to be the first PM of Canada, is the father of our so called nation. We wonder why white supremacy is still alive and well in the 21st century: it never died. Just look at this thread. It is nose deep in white supremacist, bigoted shit.

No, I think that most people recognized whatever happened, happened- whether he was good bad or ugly is irrelevant, he just WAS and for that is part of our history. As a bonus he got the railway built.

 

[Cliffy]

You do realize that cliffy doesn't have an ounce of FN blood in him, right? He's a wannabe.

About as much as you are a wannabe white asshole, halfbreed.

 

[Jinentonix]

See, that's your mistake. We mostly moved the Indians to hardpan desert and told them they were to farm it.

Hey, if some dude in Africa with absolutely no education in the matter can turn hardpan desert into a green paradise within 40 years all by himself, surely to god the "Indians" can do it.
Okay, that was a bit of a cheap shot but it is true. Hardpan desert can be turned green using entirely natural methods.

If you want to defend the residential school system and the planned and systematic attempted cultural genocide of Canada's indigenous peoples, that's your choice.

If you want to view the past through the politically correct lens of today, that's your stupidity. Do you know WHY people like you do that? To give yourself a false sense of moral superiority.
Seriously, how many people in Canada do you think would agree with what was done? Or would argue to bring it back? Precious f*cking few. So why are we "fighting this battle" now?

The only people who want to erase history are the idiots who look at a statue and see only a single aspect to the person. DO you seriously believe that when people think about our first PM they think, "Man, he did great work trying to "knock the Indian out of the Indian"? No, of course they're not. Well, all except the precious little snowflakes who go out of their way to be offended on someone else's behalf.

 

[tay]

It's beyond the f**king pale! Someone obviously thinks he/she has the wisdom to judge actions and events of 150 years ago. Some people obviously need to learn to leave well enough alone. Anything/one that is worthwhile has a few scars and warts attached! That's life! Get used to it!

Donald Trump and his friends at Breitbart......

 

[Jinentonix]

About as much as you are a wannabe white asshole, halfbreed.

Halfbreed? Oh boy, Cliffy is tossing around the ol' pejoratives now. His argument is disintegrating before his eyes. :lol:

 

[Danbones]

Donald Trump and his friends at Breitbart......

You oughta read Hitlary's new book if you want to see how history gets so distorted

(pro tip: read it on a plane so free barf bags are readily available!)

 

[TenPenny]

Who?

Why the same people who were my teachers in high school, that's who.

You had elementary school teachers in high school?

 

[Danbones]

Same union? If not, they are in sync ( thats the definition of communism init?)

"Ontario paid $1-million to union for labour peace with high school teachers

Ontario’s Liberal government paid $1-million directly to the province’s high school teachers’ union as part of a deal to defuse one of its most explosive labour disputes, a document obtained by The Globe and Mail reveals.

In addition, the government financed raises for teachers by diverting money from a fund for special programs that help struggling students graduate."...


...The Liberals need to keep a strong relationship with OSSTF, in part because teachers are key members of the party’s political base and in part because no labour dispute draws more attention than those involving schools.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ce-with-high-school-teachers/article26900173/

ah...so that is what they are after.....
greedy lil effers

 

[bobnoorduyn]

There is no shortage of money on the reserves.
Tools and equipment can be bought.
Knowledge can be given.. for free.
There are many kinds of farming, husbandry and cultivation.

No, something else is missing.

There may be no shortage of money on the rez but it is mostly in the hands and under the control of the Chief and Council. Sure they are "democratically elected", but with their control of the purse strings elections can be and are often bought, not much different that the system in the ROC, except on a much smaller scale.


What is missing is that all this is done with little or no transparency or accountability to the actual taxpayer. The band members know what is going on but they have zero power to effect change, call it representation without taxation. If they were the ones actually paying the Chief and Council they would have some power to hold their feet to the fire. Like the ROC that only goes so far, but it would be a start.


No one race or socio-economic group has exclusive patent on moral superiority or depravity, human nature affects all equally regardless of what the "enlightened" folk may say.


What is not missing is a culture of dependence, "how Stephen Harper really should have described the Maritimes, because it exists in spades". You will become beholden to the hand that feeds you, and the party that promises to hand you the most candy will be the one that forms government.