So, how about that Syrian chemical attack thing?

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I don't much care for Trump, but the West needs to decide whether they are in or out. If nothing was to be done about Assad and targeting ISIS was the only game, I am of the thought that the West should pull out and leave it to the Russians and let the Syrians kill each other to their hearts content. Unfortunately, we have lots of people who want something done about the atrocities, but don't have the stomach to actually do anything. In other words our Prime Minister pulled our war planes out, but left ground troops under the guise of handing out flowers and candy and instructing a few friendly freedom fighters.

The fact of the matter is, from a strategic point of view, it's time to put up or shut up. Obama was a dismal failure because he choked after making bold statements about red lines that will not be crossed. Taking out Syrian air bases prevents them from dropping bombs on pretend sarin gas factories (if you believe the Russians and the Syrians and of course MHZ). It also is a salvo across the bow of the Russians who were basically operating with complete impunity. Russia is supporting the Syrian Regime because they sell a hell of a lot of arms to them, but (cough cough) never chemical weapons.

People who get their facts from things INFOWARS and Ron Paul are the same kind of stupid as people who think that Bill O'Reilly is credible news source. But hey, who am I to question the wisdom of all that alternative news.

 

[Danbones]

dead wrong
paul has been at the center of power for decades
you drive a truck in the bush

if you look I have been anti oh really for ever
so your dead in the water right there

MR ass umption

so take that kind of stupid home

 

[Murphy]

It's too early to know how things will unfold. Russia hasn't done anything to date to stop ISIS or any in country conflicts, so I doubt that they would be any help. At any rate, we'll have to wait for the rest of the world to weigh in.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

dead wrong
paul has been at the center of power for decades
you drive a truck in the bush

so take that kind of stupid home

Oh, great burn! From a guy who can't even capitalize the first word in a sentence, or a last name or use a comma or two.

It's too early to know how things will unfold. Russia hasn't done anything to date to stop ISIS or any in country conflicts, so I doubt that they would be any help. At any rate, we'll have to wait for the rest of the world to weigh in.

They aren't any help, they're protecting an investment.

 

[Murphy]

Our Damascus correspondent made an appearance and then left. I think he found out about the strike from the board here. I thought he would have known and posted a reaction.

 

[MHz]

:lol: Of course.

Reactions. Nothing loud or threatening. No one is actually upset. Russian relations might be icy, but nothing unexpected. Rootin' Tootin' Putin isn't a trustworthy type anyway..

As of 0145 hrs, 3 Syrian soldiers dead. No Russians dead. If these numbers hold, the strike was an unqualified success.

Really?? The US doesn't have the ability to come up with a plan that fast so that means it was pre-planned and Trump will be the loser on this one.

https://sputniknews.com/politics/201704071052391092-us-attack-syria-russian-foreign-ministry/
US attack in Syria is nothing else than a show of force, the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement on Friday. The decision to attack Syria was made ahead of Idlib chmical incident, used as a pretext for this demonstration of strength.

The US missile strikes on Syria airfield os a clear act of aggression against sovereign Syria, the Russia Foreign Ministry said.
It is obvious that the US missile attack in Syria was prepared "in advance," the Russian Foreign Ministry stated.
"It is clear that the decision to conduct the strike [in Syria] was made in Washington before the incident in Idlib, which was used as a pretext for this demonstration of strength," the Russian Foreign Ministry said.


https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201704071052388059-daesh-us-strike-syria/
Daesh (banned in numerous countries) terrorist fighters had attacked the Syrian armed forces at the same time and in the same vicinity as the US missile strike on its airfield near Homs, an informed source told Sputnik on Friday.

The source said the terrorists launched an attack on a Homs-Sha'irat stretch of highway at around 23:00 GMT and held their territory for over an hour until the arrival of reinforcements.
"Is it a coincidence that the IS [Daesh] fighters attacked one of the defensive positions of the Homs-Palmyra route simultaneously with the US attack on Sha'irat?" the source said.
The US launched 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles at the Syrian military airfield in Ash Sha'irat near Homs late Thursday. US President Donald Trump said the attack was a response to the alleged chemical weapon use in Idlib on Tuesday, which Washington blames on Damascus.

Reactions from Europe are just now coming in.

Given that Russia hasn't really said anything yet, they are clearly working on a statement that will talk tough, but will have no teeth. As well, since they were given advance notice, it is unlikely that any further military action will occur. That is, unless Assad does something stupid.

We wait.

The US is the one making the stupid moves, . . . again.

 

[Murphy]

Okay. Thanks for that.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Trump appeared to be genuinely disgusted at the loss of children's lives in Syria, and not just the canned response that every politician uses. So good for him to blast the he'll out of that airbase. That must've been a sight to behold.

He's finally being coached on how to act and react, more like. With a human being like Donald, everything is about Donald. I'd doubt that he personally gives a cr@p but you can"t pass up an opportunity like this to be seen as compassionate. You are probably witnessing Ivanka's disgust and he's following a script.

Sorry. Don't buy the guff.

 

[Murphy]

It doesn't matter what you or I "buy". The strike is being well received by most of the world. We don't count.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Message delivered.

Well done, Mr. Trump.

 

[Danbones]

President [Vladimir] Putin regards the US attacks on Syria as an aggression against a sovereign state in violation of the norms of international law, and under a trumped-up pretext at that," Pesov told reporters.

The Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) had confirmed that Syrian armed forces do not possess chemical weapons, the Kremlin cited Russian President Vladimir Putin as saying Friday while warning of the danger of ignoring terrorist use of chemical weapons.

Russian President Vladimir Putin also sees the latest US missile strikes on a military airfield in Syria as an attempt to distract from the mounting civilian casualties in Iraq, the Kremlin added

Сoincidence? Daesh Militants Attacked Syrian Army Positions Simultaneously With US Strike
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201704071052387907-syria-us-strike-russia/

of course they did

 

[tay]

For the past four decades, Syria has been ruled by its Alawi minority, an offshoot of Islam’s Shia faith. Alawi, like their fellow Shia in Lebanon, were the nation’s poorest, most marginalized people. The only work many could get was in the military. Eventually, an iron-fisted Alawi air force general, Hafez al-Assad, seized power. After Assad’s death, his second son Bashar took charge of the regime, backed by a strong army and ruthless security organs.

The Bush administration, prompted by Israel, toyed with the idea of toppling Syria’s Assad regime but it backed down when a few smart minds in Washington asked who would the US get to replace the existing government? Syria’s main opposition came from the outlawed, underground Muslim Brotherhood that spoke for Syria’s long-repressed Sunni majority. Washington wanted no part of the Muslim Brothers. Better the Assads, who quietly cooperated with Washington in spite of being backed by Iran.

But in 2009-2010, Washington changed policy. As anti-Iranian war fever in the US mounted, the White House demanded that Damascus renounce its alliance with Iran, or else. The plan was to isolate Iran prior to its being attacked. But Syria refused to cut its vital ties to Tehran.

So Syria was marked for regime change. Washington was fed up with Arab leaders who defied the writ of the American Raj. The Assads would meet the same grisly fate as Saddam Hussein and Muammar Khadaffi.

In spring, 2011, anti-Assad guerillas, armed and trained in Jordan by CIA, infiltrated from Lebanon into southern Syria at Deraa. This was the squalid little town in which Lawrence of Arabia was captured by the Turks. Deraa was a hotbed of anti-government agitation. Soon, more US proxy rebels infiltrated across the Lebanese border. British and French special forces joined the rebels. Saudi Arabia provided the financing.

France, former colonial ruler of Syria and Lebanon, was particularly interested in re-asserting its influence in the Levant and the oil-rich Gulf states. Israel was convinced that overthrowing the Assad regime in Damascus would isolate its two main enemies, Iran and Lebanon’s Hezbullah movement, leaving the latter vulnerable to a new Israel attack.

A propaganda blitz was unleashed against Syria’s President Assad, branding him the butcher of the Middle East. This was nonsense. The mild-mannered Assad was a former London-trained ophthalmologist who became Syria’s leader when his older brother Basil was killed in a car crash. The Assad regime had some very tough, nasty senior figures, but certainly no worse or more brutal than many other American Mideast allies like Egypt, Iraq, Algeria or Morocco.

No matter. Bashar Assad became America’s new Mideast devil and the object of western-engineered regime change.


The means was to be a replay of the 1980’s Afghanistan jihad against the Soviets that this writer had covered.


http://ericmargolis.com/2015/07/destroying-syria-to-make-it-safe-for-american-values/

 

[Danbones]

Message delivered.

Well done, Mr. Trump.

wait till the ball comes back off the wall

no cup

 

[Curious Cdn]

It doesn't matter what you or I "buy". The strike is being well received by most of the world. We don't count.

I didn't say that I disagreed with the strike itself, I just don't buy Trump's crocodile tears. He really isn't a "beautiful children" type of guy and you're hearing a spin doctor's script.

The strike: Somebody had to do something. This is the strike that Barack Obama should have made a few years ago. That is big part of all of this. You are also witnessing Republican Party platform being enacted. There is layer upon layer of symbolism and implication to everything that one does in the Muddle East.

Do airstrikes work? Sometimes. Maybe. They send messages and a message had to be sent, in this case. It's easy to see why the Americans use cruise missile strikes so often. It is about the least risky action that they can take. The ordinance is expensive but it is a pittance compared to the possibility of losing a carrier based aircraft and having the pilot beheaded on Al Jeseera.

Why that airfield? Is US intelligence really that slick? They claim to have radar records that show it was the source of the sarin attack. If true, bomb the place to smithereens, I sez. If they are relying on someone else's intel (the Israelis?), wonder what They gain from having a specific air base taken out.

The Russians? Tango Sierra is all that I can say about the Russians. Expect, though, one of their planes to have an "oops" moment and drop bombs on American advisors, sometime soon. "Sorry! Blue-on-blue, you know"

 

[tay]

Why is gas an unacceptable weapon?

Dead is dead. Killed by bullets, or cluster bombs or gas. If hit by a bullet, it might be mercifully quick: but it might be very slow and painful. Or maybe not even death, “just” a permanent disablement, leaving you seriously crippled, wishing you were dead. The same for gas. So why do we differentiate between chemical weapons and other weapons..........?

How deadly was the poison gas of WW1?

But even in World War One there were those who argued gas was no worse than other weapons.

"There's an argument that humans have always had revulsion to using poison in warfare," she says. "I suppose there are ways we are just accustomed to being killed."

"I cannot see the difference between killing a man with a chemical substance and rending him to pieces with high explosives. The first-named form of death, as a matter of fact, is the most merciful," wrote one Dr J F Elliott to his local paper in 1915.

www.bbc.co.uk/...

 

[Curious Cdn]

There is gas and there is gas. Some gas is designed to do heinous, torturous things. Mustard is meant to burn flesh, blister skin, permanently blind the victim and leave them disabled for life. It is not necessarily about killing outright but about creating horrible casualties that need a lot of complex care, thus sapping your enemy's resources.

http://militaryhistorynow.com/2014/02/11/slow-burn-11-terrifying-facts-about-mustard-gas/

 

[Danbones]

you burn an older fridge compressor, you get mustard gas

the UN said they have no poison gas
the US ISUS and israel do

 

[Curious Cdn]

you burn an older fridge compressor, you get mustard gas

Don't do that.You don't want it around.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I didn't say that I disagreed with the strike itself, I just don't buy Trump's crocodile tears. He really isn't a "beautiful children" type of guy and you're hearing a spin doctor's script.

As opposed to politicians you like, who speak nothing but the pure truth from their hearts?

The strike: Somebody had to do something. This is the strike that Barack Obama should have made a few years ago. That is big part of all of this. You are also witnessing Republican Party platform being enacted. There is layer upon layer of symbolism and implication to everything that one does in the Muddle East.

So your point is that you hate Trump even when he does something you approve of?

Do airstrikes work? Sometimes. Maybe. They send messages and a message had to be sent, in this case. It's easy to see why the Americans use cruise missile strikes so often. It is about the least risky action that they can take. The ordinance is expensive but it is a pittance compared to the possibility of losing a carrier based aircraft and having the pilot beheaded on Al Jeseera.

Depends on your definition of "work." I don't think they'll cause Assad to convene a constitutional convention, resign, and spend the rest of his life ministering to the poor and suffering. But applied consistently over time, they may well modify his behavior.

Why that airfield? Is US intelligence really that slick? They claim to have radar records that show it was the source of the sarin attack. If true, bomb the place to smithereens, I sez. If they are relying on someone else's intel (the Israelis?), wonder what They gain from having a specific air base taken out.

Um. . . yes. It's not real hard to look back over the radar records of flights in and out of the various airfields and deduce where the CW strike came from. It's pretty much kindergarten-level intel.

The Russians? Tango Sierra is all that I can say about the Russians. Expect, though, on of their planes to have an "oops" moment and drop bombs on American advisors, sometime soon. "Sorry! Blue-on-blue, you know"

So you approve of the airstrike and hate Trump. OK.

 

[Murphy]

I didn't say that I disagreed with the strike itself, I just don't buy Trump's crocodile tears. He really isn't a "beautiful children" type of guy and you're hearing a spin doctor's script.

The strike: Somebody had to do something. This is the strike that Barack Obama should have made a few years ago. That is big part of all of this. You are also witnessing Republican Party platform being enacted. There is layer upon layer of symbolism and implication to everything that one does in the Muddle East.

Do airstrikes work? Sometimes. Maybe. They send messages and a message had to be sent, in this case. It's easy to see why the Americans use cruise missile strikes so often. It is about the least risky action that they can take. The ordinance is expensive but it is a pittance compared to the possibility of losing a carrier based aircraft and having the pilot beheaded on Al Jeseera.

Why that airfield? Is US intelligence really that slick? They claim to have radar records that show it was the source of the sarin attack. If true, bomb the place to smithereens, I sez. If they are relying on someone else's intel (the Israelis?), wonder what They gain from having a specific air base taken out.

The Russians? Tango Sierra is all that I can say about the Russians. Expect, though, on of their planes to have an "oops" moment and drop bombs on American advisors, sometime soon. "Sorry! Blue-on-blue, you know"

Trump isn't much of a public speaker. I believe that he was surprised, but his military advisors and others helped him see the light. Since no Russians were hurt or killed, the Russians will not retaliate. Frankly, I don't think they care that much. They were warned. All of their people are safe. But they cannot let the rest of the world think they are weak, or agree with the US, so the rhetoric starts. Just like the Cold War.
---

WRT the use of gas, the victims were civilians. They are non-combatants and are supposed to be left alone. Add to that, Assad ordered his own citizens attacked. It's wrong on a number of levels.