The Official Canadian Electoral Reform Thread

Which would you choose among the OP's options?

  • 1.

    Votes: 2 28.6%
  • 2.

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • 3.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 6.

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • 7.

    Votes: 3 42.9%

  • Total voters
    7

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
It might be the only thing that 's been done in one year, even being a really bad thing!!. Increasing the deficit, 2 new taxes, and cutting family benefits does not qualify as bettering my life. Looks like JT's record might be the worst I've seen.


I lived through the last Trudeau disaster that started about 1968 and persevered until about 1984 and there was no bloody way I could see voting for another regime engineered by the man who was brought up under the author of the previous disaster! Just didn't make any sense to me............................."the acorn doesn't fall far the tree". But then people don't vote with their heads!
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
1
36
Electoral Reform for Dummies - that would be us according to the Liberals


Discussion of electoral reform in Canada suffered from an almost total four month legacy media blackout on the more than 40 Electoral Reform Committee meetings (link is external) held in June through October and the over 300 witnesses who testified at them. Ditto the cross-Canada community consultations held by the committee, individual MPs, and Minister Monsef.

That changed on October 19 when Justin Trudeau told LeDevoir (link is external)that there was possibly less public appetite for electoral reform now that Harper was gone and consequently we might be getting proportionately Small Change rather than the promised Real Change.

Trudeau quietly held town hall where most were in favour of proportional voting system

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau quietly held and attended a town hall on electoral reform in his riding of Papineau, where “most” were found to be favourable to a proportional voting system.

There was no public mention of the town hall. An itinerary for Oct. 6 sent to reporters by the Prime Minister’s Office didn’t include it on his schedule — a meeting with Quebec business associations was the only item for that day.

The town hall took place Oct. 6 at the Papineau riding office, according to a report compiled by Trudeau’s office, submitted Oct. 11 and recently published by the special parliamentary committee on electoral reform.

About 40 people participated. Trudeau presented the “various types of voting systems and how they work,” the report says, then “mentioned that mandatory voting, electronic voting, and lowering the legal voting age to 16” are all options “the government will consider.”

While opinion was “mixed” regarding mandatory voting and the voting age, and “no one really talked about electronic voting,” the town hall found that “in general, most were favourable to the idea of a “proportional and mixed-proportional voting system.”

It was less than two weeks after the event that Trudeau came under fire for an apparent walk-back (as seen in the Devoir article) on the government’s promises to implement a new voting system.

Monsef had submitted an MP report based on her own constituents, like Trudeau had, but was meanwhile holding dozens of events across the country.

She was still holding town halls last week. On Thursday evening in Victoria, one participant posted on social media that Monsef was echoing the prime minister’s comments on how demand for reform had diminished.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/national/trudeau+quietly+held+town+hall+where+most+were+favour/12336022/story.html


It was one week after four MSM opinion pieces in early October suggested Trudeau dump electoral reform altogether (or at least kick it up to the 2019 election promises), but one week before his remarks to LeDevoir.

Today some sixteen months later, having attended exactly zero electoral reform committee road meetings or community-based townhalls these past few weeks, our legacy media is jointly suggesting Trudeau throw in the towel.

Susan Delacourt : Time for Trudeau to cut his losses on electoral reform

"Mayrand just gave the Liberals a face-saving excuse. They should take it."

Ms Delacourt manages to interpret Elections Canada CEO Marc Mayrand's caution that any new electoral system should enjoy broad support beyond a simple majority of MPs (Liberal MPs, in this case) in the House of Commons.

“I believe that changes to the Elections Act should reflect a broad consensus, that’s for sure. And I believe that a single party, whatever the majority of that party is, should not be entitled to change the act unilaterally,” Mayrand said. into an 'out' for Trudeau, as if somehow the NDP, Bloc, and Elizabeth May, not to mention the wildly cheering Canadian public who voted for reform above, do not count.

Having hung this on something Mayrand didn't say, she goes on to speculate about "what Mayrand didn’t say (but could have)" and it goes downhill from there, although I give her points for not mentioning a referendum until several paras in - perhaps because Mayrand says it's unnecessary.

"I don’t think electoral reform is a top-of-mind issue for Canadians," she says, apparently oblivious to the irony that, aside from Kady O'Malley, a media boycott might be having some bearing on that.

Toronto Star : Mayrand is right – give the people a voice on election reform: Editorial

The Star editorial board first plumps for a national referendum but settles for kicking reform down the road aways:

"Trudeau’s best move would be put election reform to a national vote and let Canadians chose the system they want, even if it means breaking a promise to do away with first-past-the-post during his first term in office."

Ditto the Ottawa Citizen ]It's more important to do electoral reform right than to do it quickly

"First, the Liberals need to break the promise that 2015 will be the last first-past-the-post election. Second, they must replace that promise with a new one to pass enabling legislation for a voting system change prior to the 2019 election, but give up on the idea of implementation by that date."

So did you all get the same phone call from Butts?

Who have I missed here? The Sun papers are sticking with their slogan No Referendum, No Reform. Oh, and the Globe and Mail - nothing from them. I guess their entire interest in electoral reform was exhausted in their Minister Monsef birther scoop.

Not really much use to us alive, are you, legacy media?

The truth is though there is a problem with the ERRE committee.

Electoral reform advocates and activists remain resolutely positive and, in the spirit of the multi-party nature of the committee, open to whatever form of proportional representation is leading despite individual preferences for one system or another.

But underneath that there is concern.

Despite a mandate to come to a consensus about implementing a new electoral system, at least three of the four Liberals on the committee appear unconvinced electoral reform is even necessary and one is still making up his mind about a referendum. They've had 36 meetings and over a hundred witnesses, yet still take turns repeating bs rightwing Keep It Simple talking points about ballots the size of bedsheets and how complicated it would be for voters to rank several candidates/parties on a ballot instead of just one.

Committee Liberals also complain that the members of the public who show up to public ERRE meetings are biased in favour of electoral reform. As if people unconcerned about being represented in government are going to make a special trip in to say 'I don't care about this'.

Last word goes to Conservative MP and ERRE member Gérard Deltell, speaking on electoral reform at the Quebec National Assembly on ] Sept. 27, 2011:
"We have almost 30 months before the next election. We have time to do what all the parties have always urged, that is, a proportional system.'
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,341
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Vancouver Island
40 hand picked members of the party faithful in a private meeting would fit the lefty version of vast majority.
What makes them think the population wants anything to do with any proportional representation? Under any of these possible systems you would no longer have an MP that even theoretically represents your area. They would firmly represent the party.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
1
36
Trudeau government to mail every household in Canada questions on electoral reform

The Trudeau government is mailing postcards to every Canadian household this month to find out how people feel about the way they elect MPs, the National Post has learned.

More than 13 million full-colour postcards were being printed up this week which, when they land in mailboxes at the end of the month, will encourage Canadians to go to a website — mydemocracy.ca or mademocratie.ca — and answer questions about their democratic values.

The websites are “parked” right now with Internet web hosting company GoDaddy.com but will go live no later than Dec. 1, said a senior government official.

The online consultations, which will close Dec. 31, will be the last of three extensive rounds of consultations on electoral reform under way since the spring.

This means the Trudeau government is expected to declare its preference for how, if it all, to change the way MPs are elected early in the new year.

A senior government official, who confirmed Sunday information the Post received independently about the mail-out plan, said this last round of consultations was not a last-minute idea, but one the government had planned to do early on.

The official also cautioned the mail-out should not be construed as a referendum, nor is it a survey or a poll. It will, however, contain many questions that ask respondents what they value most in Canada’s democracy. Ottawa is broadly committed to publishing the data it collects in addition to any interpretations it might make.

The government’s goal, with this and several other rounds of consultations, has been to build up as much political legitimacy for whatever decision it makes.

“We are interested in the values and principles Canadians share when it comes to strengthening our democracy,” said John O’Leary, communications director for Democratic Institutions Minister Maryam Monsef.

“This new approach will give more Canadians a chance to explore and engage in this topic like never before,”

No estimates have been provided for the cost of printing and mailing the postcards to the more than 13 million households counted in the 2011 census, but sources in the printing business estimate it at $2 million

The chief criticism of FTPT is that a party’s proportion of seats in the House of Commons may not match its national popular vote.
Trudeau’s Liberals, for example, won just under 40 per cent of the popular vote, but ended up with 54 per cent of the seats in the House of Commons.

At the other end of the spectrum, the Green Party got 3.5 per cent of the national vote and yet, its one seat accounts for just .003 per cent of the seats in the Commons. Had its seat count in the 338-seat House of Commons matched its popular vote, it should have close to 12 MPs under some voting systems that award seats based on the proportions of the national vote.

But that would be just one way to alter Canada’s voting system. There are a myriad of others, including a ranked ballot, a mixed-member proportional system, and so on.

And while the Trudeau Liberals vowed 2015 would be the last FPTP election,they have never said what they favour as a replacement.
Instead, the government asked MPs from all parties to hold town-hall meetings in their ridings to canvass residents for their thoughts.

Many MPs, including Trudeau, did just that and have filed accounts of those meetings.

In the meantime, a special committee of MPs has spent the last few months criss-crossing the country, talking to Canadians about the issue. It is expected to publish its report and recommendations by the end of the month.

Exclusive: Trudeau government to mail every household in Canada questions on electoral reform | National Post
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
The system works fine except for the ideologues. We don't need reform in the election process. We need reform in the House of Commons.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
Trudeau government to mail every household in Canada questions on electoral reform

The Trudeau government is mailing postcards to every Canadian household this month to find out how people feel about the way they elect MPs, the National Post has learned.

More than 13 million full-colour postcards were being printed up this week which, when they land in mailboxes at the end of the month, will encourage Canadians to go to a website — mydemocracy.ca or mademocratie.ca — and answer questions about their democratic values.

The websites are “parked” right now with Internet web hosting company GoDaddy.com but will go live no later than Dec. 1, said a senior government official.

The online consultations, which will close Dec. 31, will be the last of three extensive rounds of consultations on electoral reform under way since the spring.

This means the Trudeau government is expected to declare its preference for how, if it all, to change the way MPs are elected early in the new year.

A senior government official, who confirmed Sunday information the Post received independently about the mail-out plan, said this last round of consultations was not a last-minute idea, but one the government had planned to do early on.

The official also cautioned the mail-out should not be construed as a referendum, nor is it a survey or a poll. It will, however, contain many questions that ask respondents what they value most in Canada’s democracy. Ottawa is broadly committed to publishing the data it collects in addition to any interpretations it might make.

The government’s goal, with this and several other rounds of consultations, has been to build up as much political legitimacy for whatever decision it makes.

“We are interested in the values and principles Canadians share when it comes to strengthening our democracy,” said John O’Leary, communications director for Democratic Institutions Minister Maryam Monsef.

“This new approach will give more Canadians a chance to explore and engage in this topic like never before,”

No estimates have been provided for the cost of printing and mailing the postcards to the more than 13 million households counted in the 2011 census, but sources in the printing business estimate it at $2 million

The chief criticism of FTPT is that a party’s proportion of seats in the House of Commons may not match its national popular vote.
Trudeau’s Liberals, for example, won just under 40 per cent of the popular vote, but ended up with 54 per cent of the seats in the House of Commons.

At the other end of the spectrum, the Green Party got 3.5 per cent of the national vote and yet, its one seat accounts for just .003 per cent of the seats in the Commons. Had its seat count in the 338-seat House of Commons matched its popular vote, it should have close to 12 MPs under some voting systems that award seats based on the proportions of the national vote.

But that would be just one way to alter Canada’s voting system. There are a myriad of others, including a ranked ballot, a mixed-member proportional system, and so on.

And while the Trudeau Liberals vowed 2015 would be the last FPTP election,they have never said what they favour as a replacement.
Instead, the government asked MPs from all parties to hold town-hall meetings in their ridings to canvass residents for their thoughts.

Many MPs, including Trudeau, did just that and have filed accounts of those meetings.

In the meantime, a special committee of MPs has spent the last few months criss-crossing the country, talking to Canadians about the issue. It is expected to publish its report and recommendations by the end of the month.

Exclusive: Trudeau government to mail every household in Canada questions on electoral reform | National Post

Good on him.

We desperately need to move to proportional representation so that those twats in bumfukk Alberta finally have a say.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
We desperately need to move to proportional representation so that those twats in bumfukk Alberta finally have a say.

I think folks in Alberta are quite content with the current system. I don't hear any significant grumbling for change. Why would we want change considering the population shift to the west is going to give us the power anyway
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
113
Northern Ontario,
You so easy..................................
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
I think folks in Alberta are quite content with the current system. I don't hear any significant grumbling for change. Why would we want change considering the population shift to the west is going to give us the power anyway

 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,341
113
Vancouver Island
Good on him.

We desperately need to move to proportional representation so that those twats in bumfukk Alberta finally have a say.

Proportional representation will leave you without an MP in the house. BC went through quite an extensive search for change and the one chosen by by group was voted down twice For much the same reason. You will not have a person representing your area.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
Let's not copy the American electoral system in any way .... no, nay, never.

As flawed as ours apoears to be, it is light years ahead of the creepy clown show that we see to the southmof us, every four years (and it's getting worse!)
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
Let's not copy the American electoral system in any way .... no, nay, never.

As flawed as ours apoears to be, it is light years ahead of the creepy clown show that we see to the southmof us, every four years (and it's getting worse!)
I keep hearing it's flawed but I just don't see it. The people I see doing the complaining are just pissy because they aren't getting their way
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
I keep hearing it's flawed but I just don't see it. The people I see doing the complaining are just pissy because they aren't getting their way

It's flawed because some regions have disproportionzte political power over others. If you live in a large province, your vote has less clout than if you live in a smaller one but that is a reasonable price to pay for keeping a confederacy together.