"The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you; the Lord turn his face toward you and give you peace." (Numbers 6:24-26 NIV)
Your respect means a great deal, LL. Be blessed : )
For The Time Will Come
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"The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you; the Lord turn his face toward you and give you peace." (Numbers 6:24-26 NIV)
Your respect means a great deal, LL. Be blessed : )
Perhaps less well know is the conditions that apply to the first Law. What is a good relationship and what is a bad relationship is what the 7 letters to the 7 Churches is all about. The 42 months from Re:11 is the 'time of testing' for Gentiles for becoming believers based on 'seeing leads to believing'. and the time of the judgment is the day the 7th trump sounds. (Matthew:25 sheep/goats determination)
If you take the 1290 days mentioned in Daniel and apply it to the timeline given in Revelations the 1260 days would be the period in which the 5th and 6th trumps take to be fulfilled. Some people that are said to be protected exist and they could be the \new believers' that witnessed the first 4 trumps sounding in the space of 4 days. The other 26 days would be the event before any trumps sound, the casting down on the earth coals from the alter before God. They are said to be the prayers of the 24 Elders so that is not a curse on the ones they touch. Saul's experience could be likened to that type of event and he was the first to fit the 'latter days' mentioned in De:4:30 as the event that leads to the end of the 'scattering' also mentioned in that passage. The 144,000 would be the first to be 'sealed' and then believers by faith (that the Bible is a truthful book) and the ones that become believers during the last tribulation and they become believers through witness by themselves.
Nice segue, MHz.
You started well. You introduced your subject: "good versus bad relationships". What is your thesis?
Your statistics, citations and observations are a bit jumbled. Perhaps you might provide some numbers or some Bible citations, then make some observations about them. Continue to present data and your observations until all of your supporting evidence is laid out.
When you are finished presenting all of your evidence, then make one or two concluding statements in support of your thesis.
Hope this helps : )
I really want to understand your point of view, MHz. You have some important things to share.
Salvation is a process that has two stages to it. The people that will act as Shepherds to the Flock in the era called the 'new earth' are gathered 'one day' before the flock is gathered. The flock is the bigger of the two groups and that 'one day' has some conditions that make the two groups slightly different.
Okay, let me use my post and take it apart so the flow is easier to follow. The basic is that anything from Daniel that applies to the iron/clay era is what will be the 5th and 6th trumps unfolding in a period of 42 months. (given to the Beast from the Pit and that is equal to 1260 days. The Beast kills the two witnesses 4 days (3 1/2) before it's 42 months is over. The date is the day the 7th trump sounds. The two witnesses preach for 1260 days and they have to be sealed before any trumps sound. That would mean that in the 4 days there would be one trump sound per day over a period of 4 days. That would leave the current countries in a state where Martial Law is the rule and the red sword seal prophecy is the sword given to the leaders of the nations in Romans:13 is now the source of evil that comes onto the 'people' rather than protecting them from evil. The nations still surrender to the Beast within one hour of it beginning it's rule of 42 months as the leader of the Nations and Jerusalem is only taken on the day the two witnesses die. On the day they are resurrected the Beast is sent to the fiery lake and before sunset all the people that are supposed to be alive according to Re:20:4.
The iron in that 4th kingdom are angelic beings, the 8th king is the last king before Christ and it's reign is a continuation of what was going on before Noah's flood whem the fallen angels were put into the Pit to begin with. (prison before their exile to the fiery lake)
It should be a step or two in the right direction.
If you take the 1290 days mentioned in Daniel and apply it to the timeline given in Revelations the 1260 days would be the period in which the 5th and 6th trumps take to be fulfilled.
Revelation has several references to periods of time that are are the same length, 1260 or 42 months or 3 1/2 years. The Church in Re:11 has 42 months and that would be Gentiles who have one of the 7 positive relationships that God approves of. They would be the first members of the group described after the 144,000 reference. Re:7 is the order of the gathering of mankind to God. The 12 Tribes will be whole during the 1,000 year period and the Church will be a small part of all Gentiles that ever lived. The Re:7 reference to Gentiles is describing the Great White Throne event when Gentiles are a whole group before God.
The Church members wouldn't be around Jerusalem in the 4 days the witnesses are dead but on the day they are resurrected that is the place that sees the last of the Gentiles 'cross the aisle' before repenting does not change your fate. You have to wait until the GWT to be saved and given a drink of living water. The ones alive for the 1,000 years have a river they visit, the one in Eze:47 to be exact.
Some people that are said to be protected exist and they could be the \new believers' that witnessed the first 4 trumps sounding in the space of 4 days. The other 26 days would be the event before any trumps sound, the casting down on the earth coals from the alter before God. They are said to be the prayers of the 24 Elders so that is not a curse on the ones they touch.
Saul's experience could be likened to that type of event and he was the first to fit the 'latter days' mentioned in De:4:30 as the event that leads to the end of the 'scattering' also mentioned in that passage.
The first actual event connected to the unfolding of prophecy is the verses below. The angel is Christ and the coals would represent the sealing that is done to the 144,000 from the 12 Tribes as far as protection from physical harm goes. (during the tribulation associated with the 'latter days' prophecy. Also sealed are the Gentile believers that say prayers of repentance and those prayers are heard in heaven as they become vapors rising from the altar before God. The time of the Gentiles started in 70 AD and Re:11 has the last 42 months of that period.
The 144,000 would be the first to be 'sealed' and then believers by faith (that the Bible is a truthful book) and the ones that become believers during the last tribulation and they become believers through witness by themselves.
The vial is the wrath that takes sinners to the grave, it happens after the two witnesses are alive but before the resurrection of the ones in Re:20:4 begins. Both event start and are completed in the same 1/2 day.
Revelation would treat the seals as being prophetic in the same way that the metal statue in Da:2 is a vision and not actual events. The actual events that go with the vision are in later part of the book of Daniel. The 7 seals are a vision of the coals from heaven and the 7 trumps are about as they are prophecy unfolding in a specified manner.
Each of the points above have not been expanded on to their fullest so don't be shy about pointing something out. If I can't make all the pieces fit then it isn't a very solid doctrine. So far all the pieces do have a slot they fit into.
Really?? You speak of a different doctrine.
Re:8:13:
And I beheld,
and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven,
saying with a loud voice,
Woe,
woe,
woe,
to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels,
which are yet to sound!
Re:8:13:
And I beheld,
and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven,
saying with a loud voice,
Woe,
woe,
woe,
to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels,
which are yet to sound!
Tomorrow in this case would be the conclusion of the bruise to the head. Today in the time of the quote it was the conclusion of the bruise to the heel part of Ge:3:15. The Jews of His day were not under persecution from God. Gentiles will be under persecution from when Revelations begins to unfold before your own eyes. Luke:21:12-24 is what the Apostles went through between the time Stephen was killed and the exile that came in 70AD when Rome was the army that surrounded Jerusalem. The bruise to the head part uses the list given in Jeremiah:25 and it specifies Jerusalem during the 4 days the witnesses are dead. That is a day of 'gloom' rather than of 'light' and you can alter which way it ends for you if you find yourself in those times.
2Th:1:5-9:
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God,
that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God,
for which ye also suffer:
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
And to you who are troubled rest with us,
when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord,
and from the glory of his power;
If the 7 vials was 'put aside' then it wouldn't be God pulling the strings.
The 12 Tribes are gathered first. They are considered to be a 'whole people' when the resurrection given in Eze:37 is complete and the 144,000 are the first to be gathered that belong to the groups whose first member is a son of Abraham, Joseph. The determination in the De:30 prophecy says they will be left few in number before the 'gathering' and the 144,000 is how few it gets to be thanks to the determination in Eze:39 that all will die by the sword (the red one introduced in the 2nd seal prophecy) and that makes all of them part of the Re:20:4 list that are 'beheaded for the word of God' as that is a fate that cannot be changed.
The two witnesses are raised at the 1/2 day and in the next few hours the 7 vials are poured out on the (Gentile) sinners of the day. 2/3 of them go to the grave and the 1/3 that remain would be the Church that was also protected during the days of the last tribulation.
Zec:14 is about the 1,000 year period and once the 'war' is over the resurrection mentioned in Re:20:4 begins and by 6pm all the people that will be alive for the 1,000 years are alive and in the same condition Jesus was on the morning of His resurrection. The 12 tribes will be resurrected so they become alive in the land of Israel so it will be a short walk to the new river that will exist as given in Eze:47.
The 12 Tribes will be expanded to include all the tribes that were taken over in the exodus wars where female virgins were taken that eventually married into the 12 Tribes. The Beloved Disciple, Mary of Bethany' will be the first one resurrected from the 12 Tribes and she alone will be considered to9 be Christ's wife starting on the first fay of the 1,000 year reign. The two groups have their own roles to play during that time and Israel will host the Feast of the Tabernacles once a year for that whole period of time. The people from both groups are not given in marriage so no children are born during this time and these two groups combine into a single group in the new earth era. They both reside inside New Jerusalem and still remain childless just like angelic beings are today. They will contrite on with the feast of the tabernacle feast and the ones coming to the feast are the ones called 'the rest' in Re:20 who become alive at the Great White Throne event and fulfill the new earth verses of Isaiah:65. The current universe will be the 'new earth'.
Eze:37:11-14:
Then he said unto me,
Son of man,
these bones are the whole house of Israel:
behold,
they say,
Our bones are dried,
and our hope is lost:
we are cut off for our parts.
Therefore prophesy and say unto them,
Thus saith the Lord GOD;
Behold,
O my people,
I will open your graves,
and cause you to come up out of your graves,
and bring you into the land of Israel.
And ye shall know that I am the LORD,
when I have opened your graves,
O my people,
and brought you up out of your graves,
And shall put my spirit in you,
and ye shall live,
and I shall place you in your own land:
then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it,
and performed it,
saith the LORD.
Eze:39:25-29:
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD;
Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob,
and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel,
and will be jealous for my holy name;
After that they have borne their shame,
and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me,
when they dwelt safely in their land,
and none made them afraid.
When I have brought them again from the people,
and gathered them out of their enemies' lands,
and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God,
which cause them to be led into captivity among the heathen:
but I have gathered them unto their own land,
and have left none of them any more there.
Neither will I hide my face any more from them:
for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel,
saith the Lord GOD.
Eze:47:12:
And by the river upon the bank thereof,
on this side and on that side,
shall grow all trees for meat,
whose leaf shall not fade,
neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed:
it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months,
because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary:
and the fruit thereof shall be for meat,
and the leaf thereof for medicine.
Eze:47:13:
Thus saith the Lord GOD;
This shall be the border,
whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel:
Joseph shall have two portions.
Zec:14:3-9:
Then shall the LORD go forth,
and fight against those nations,
as when he fought in the day of battle.
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
which is before Jerusalem on the east,
and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west,
and there shall be a very great valley;
and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north,
and half of it toward the south.
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains;
for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal:
yea,
ye shall flee,
like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
and the LORD my God shall come,
and all the saints with thee.
And it shall come to pass in that day,
that the light shall not be clear,
nor dark:
But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD,
not day, nor night:
but it shall come to pass,
that at evening time it shall be light.
And it shall be in that day,
that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem;
half of them toward the former sea,
and half of them toward the hinder sea:
in summer and in winter shall it be.
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth:
in that day shall there be one LORD,
and his name one.
M't:22:30:
For in the resurrection they neither marry,
nor are given in marriage,
but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Speculation would all this verse to se a path for the ones that live in the city as also ascending to the same 'new Heaven' that perfected angels ascend and they stay in that heaven. They could also given in marriage no that they could only have a perfected child. The ones outside the city have 100 children before they are made 'immortal', prior to that they are 'eternal beings' like Adam and Eve were as they had to eat to remain alive. Being created, being made immortal, gaining the wisdom of God are all steps on the path to being as perfect as God is when Ge:1:1 was 'made manifest' Prior to this God was perfected but single and then He and the Holy Ghost were given in marriage and Christ was 'begat'. Proverbs:8 is about wisdom, the witness to creation is His witness and that qualifies Him as the only one that can be the 'perfect judge'.
Heb:12:22:
But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb:12:23:
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven,
and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
General assembly would be the 12 Tribes as they were the people that the bruise to the heel revolved around, the Church that were under NT Law are the ones that the bruise to the head revolves around. As this is for the time of the GWT the spirits of men that are mentioned are all of the ones that were alive to attend the feast in Zec:14.
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Perhaps the 'grand picture' will help. The alpha and omega with God as far as the earth is concerned is the beginning in Genesis:1-3 and Re:20-22 is the end, and beyond that.
Ge:3:15 is about the two bruises, Re:12 starts off wit the woman being Eve on the day that determination was made. The next woman mentioned in Mary, the mother of Jesus and the cross was the act that made all things associated with the bruise to the heel of 'the seed of Eve' was completed in prophecy and in deed. It also determined that 'bruise' was equal to death and for the 'sons of God'. that existed before the flood death will mean the fiery lake. (rather than the grave) The last woman mentioned in that chapter is a reference to the Beloved Disciple and the 'readers of Revelation' that understand what she was writing about. Written in 100AD but only understandable in literal terms by a generation that is as advanced as we are today. That also means Ge:1-3 would also be written for the same people mentioned in Re:1 as being the generation that sees the return in person.
Ge:3:15 exists and Re:12 is an expansion on that single verse so that alone is 'odd' for a random collection of writings by some men with wild imaginations. The book has more than one example of that. 'The rest' from Re:20 seem to get the 'short stick' yet after reading Hebrews:12 and Isaiah"65 it doesn't seem all that terrible overall.
If that part is split up then the rest of the text should be divided into what they apply to, the bruise to the heel (the cross) or the bruise to the head (7 vials on the whole world) Abraham would be the start of the 'group involved in that determination being played out in a literal fashion as that is what the text indicates if you start with the exodus and the change in law once all the giants were exterminated.that is the change that will be in place until bith bruises are completed in full. The heel bruise when Jesus said, 'It is finished.' and then died and the other when He says.'It is done as He pours out the 7th vial on the last of the living sinners in Re:16.
John the Baptist was called the same way Moses was so the Gospel of John and Revelations should be classified as OT books and the other NT books would then be by people that Jesus taught directly. This helps as Daniel and Revelation have many connections that need to be considered and this is the best route so the book is available to the Church and the Jews who deny the NT texts as being 'from God', not the case with John the Baptist.
Those changes make the sorting easier if nothing else so that ends up being less back tracking. The passages still have to be read to get all the fine details. The 12 books after Daniel all cover the few hours it takes for all 7 vials to be poured out on the whole earth. That has to be covered before a summation can be made. Strip out just the prophecies and it isn't that long of a read and the dots will connect themselves as fast as you can read. That is another thing that this generation can do for the first time. Search using key words.
1) I believe the bible has a single author who used 40 different Scribes over many centuries just to keep the book a mystery until a certain generation came around. That by itself does not mean the fulfillment will begin as it could be many generations later.
2) The book promotes one true God and the complexity of the book when viewed as being able to keep the context tends to support that the person who narrated Ge:1-3 and Re:20-22 is one individual and the book He left behind is to aid the ones that will be alive when the bruise to the head part of Ge:3:15 is fulfilled.
3) I don't believe all the confusion about this concept is coming only from my end. If it is then so be it. There isn't anything that Dex or another that I don't understand the concept, I can also point out some flaws usually so does that make me more knowledgeable about the subject in general, let alone how specific that opinion can get in some instances. (like the covenant in Da:6 is not the AC but is about God, who is mentioned by name and title at the beginning of the same passage. To change who it references is making the 'magical leap' rather than following the printed story and it's version.
Jer:4:28:
For this shall the earth mourn,
and the heavens above be black:
because I have spoken it,
I have purposed it,
and will not repent,
neither will I turn back from it.
Isa:55:11:
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Your turn.
2) The book promotes one true God and the complexity of the book when viewed as being able to keep the context tends to support that the person who narrated Ge:1-3 and Re:20-22 is one individual and the book He left behind is to aid the ones that will be alive when the bruise to the head part of Ge:3:15 is fulfilled.
3) I don't believe all the confusion about this concept is coming only from my end. If it is then so be it. There isn't anything that Dex or another that I don't understand the concept, I can also point out some flaws usually so does that make me more knowledgeable about the subject in general, let alone how specific that opinion can get in some instances. (like the covenant in Da:6 is not the AC but is about God, who is mentioned by name and title at the beginning of the same passage. To change who it references is making the 'magical leap' rather than following the printed story and it's version.
Jer:4:28:
For this shall the earth mourn,
and the heavens above be black:
because I have spoken it,
I have purposed it,
and will not repent,
neither will I turn back from it.
Isa:55:11:
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Your turn.
Thanks for sharing, MHz.
I believe that the time of apostasy described in the OP has come. Recall that I defined apostasy in an earlier post as unfaithfulness. It is a turning away from (truth) and a turning aside to (mythology).
The current mythology is an ancient one, repackaged for the 21st century. The false beliefs and practices of ancient Babylon are resurgent in and supported by our contemporary pop culture and social politics. Its symbolism is prominently displayed in our media and its proponents are now promoting it in plain sight.
We who are unaware of or unconcerned about this ancient/modern infidelity are unwittingly repeating it.
"My mythology is better than your mythology, my god is better than your god, so PLLLTTTZZZ!!!
Sad. Very sad indeed.
The quality of our doctrine is fleshed out in our practice, Cliffy. Better is as better does. Remember that I regard you as having been created in the image and potential of the Supreme Being. Anticipating that your superior convictions will soon manifest in superior moral conduct, my expectations of you run high : )
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That was 'predicted in the verses below.
2Th:2:1-4:
Now we beseech you,
brethren,
by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and by our gathering together unto him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind,
or be troubled,
neither by spirit,
nor by word,
nor by letter as from us,
as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped;
so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God.
Da:8:12:
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression,
and it cast down the truth to the ground;
and it practised,
and prospered.
By 450AD the RCC was using a Latin Bible rather than the NT in Greek and the OT in Hebrew. God doesn't help either in that things were hidden from Daniel that was added to in Revelations and the rest of the NT. That was still not enough that the meaning could not be altered. That option left the table when it became possible for an individual to search the whole book easily, an e-bible allows you to do that. Grace is a NT specific term but to define it you would need to read the verses where it is used and to make sure you are in the right context you would need to read the passage it comes from. After doing that you would know what Grace means as far as the book goes. You can do the same with terms like 'day of the lord' and even Babylon. It is only in the last few pages of the book that a 2nd Babylon is introduced and prior to that the only reference to that term was for Neb's Babylon. With that 2nd reference all the OT prophecies should be checked to see if any references are to the bruise to the head event as Neb's Babylon was part of the events associated with the bruise to the heel events. One verse applies to the NT and any references to total annihilation also apply to Satan's Babylon. The city that will be the place the iron from the iron/clay kingdom rule from.
This is specific to Satan's Babylon on the day the two witnesses in Re:11 are resurrected back to life. The verse below is specific to the 3 1/2 days the two witnesses are dead in the streets of the city we call Jerusalem, in those 3 1/2 days it is referenced as Babylon.
Da:11:45:
And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain;
yet he shall come to his end,
and none shall help him.
La:1:1:
How doth the city sit solitary,
that was full of people! how is she become as a widow!
she that was great among the nations,
and princess among the provinces,
how is she become tributary!
La:1:2:
She weepeth sore in the night,
and her tears are on her cheeks:
among all her lovers she hath none to comfort her:
all her friends have dealt treacherously with her,
they are become her enemies.
Babylon today is said to be a lot of different things from the literal one in Iraq to America being the manifestation of it. They usually shy away from any detailed reference to actual Scripture. The verse below is about the 3 1/2 days the witnesses are dead, that means the vision and explanation are part of the ere that Revelation deals with, the 3 1/2 years before the day of the return and all that brings on just the first day.
Da:7:25:
And he shall speak great words against the most High,
and shall wear out the saints of the most High,
and think to change times and laws:
and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Da:7:26:
But the judgment shall sit,
and they shall take away his dominion,
to consume and to destroy it unto the end.