For The Time Will Come

[tay]

If you don't have enough faith, you will die......


The pastor, however, blamed the girl and accused her of having little faith for she could not withstand a very simple task.

Pastor Lethebo Rabalango had organized a night of worship at his church in Polokwane where he was teaching about the demonstration of power in which he emphasized that if Jesus walked on water, he too could do anything with faith.

The reports indicate that Congregates of the Mount Zion General Assembly went home with heads down on Sunday after a failed demonstration of power by the church pastor when a girl fainted after he put a very big and heavy speaker on top of her, promising her that she would not feel pain. ''

https://www.ghanastar.com/africa-ne...speaker-on-her-body-to-demonstrate-a-miracle/

 

[Motar]

If you don't have enough faith, you will die......

You are putting way too much pressure on yourself, tay. Everyone dies. Eternal life is a gift. When we unclench our fists and look up, we have arrived at enough faith to recognize and receive that gift and live.

That was 'predicted in the verses below.

2Th:2:1-4:
that day shall not come,except there come a falling away first,

Da:8:12:
it cast down the truth to the ground;

Babylon today is said to be a lot of different things from the literal one in Iraq to America being the manifestation of it. They usually shy away from any detailed reference to actual Scripture.

Yes, MHz, apostasy = falling away. Absolutely, apostasy = exchanging truth for a lie:

"They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen." (Romans 1:25 NIV)

I would suggest that John's reference to Babylon in Revelation depicts a spiritual domain rather than a literal, physical one.

 

[Cliffy]

The quality of our doctrine is fleshed out in our practice, Cliffy. Better is as better does. Remember that I regard you as having been created in the image and potential of the Supreme Being. Anticipating that your superior convictions will soon manifest in superior moral conduct, my expectations of you run high : )

The quality of any religious or spiritual path is in the practice Motar. I've known people of all faiths and convictions that got the message and lived by their convictions. I also saw many who used the teachings to hide behind, who never really understood that once your truth is found, you put it into practice or you have wasted your time. The brand of faith, or even the lack of faith, has nothing to do with how one lives their life. Integrity is what matters. The only thing I disagree with what you preach, is that your way is the only way. Your way is the only way for you. Everyone else needs to find their own way. If that means even atheists can live in integrity. Your judgment, based on your beliefs, is just egotistical chest beating. Just because you believe something is true does not make it true for anybody else.

 

[Motar]

The quality of any religious or spiritual path is in the practice Motar. I've known people of all faiths and convictions that got the message and lived by their convictions. I also saw many who used the teachings to hide behind, who never really understood that once your truth is found, you put it into practice or you have wasted your time. The brand of faith, or even the lack of faith, has nothing to do with how one lives their life. Integrity is what matters. The only thing I disagree with what you preach, is that your way is the only way. You way is the only way for you. Everyone else needs to find their own way. If that means even atheists can live in integrity. Your judgment, based on your beliefs, is just egotistical chest beating. Just because you believe something is true does not make it true for anybody else.

Remember that we are participating in a Christian discussion, Cliffy. I am here in support of the Subject - Christ. If I seem too consistent in my witness, it is because He is consistent:

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever." (Hebrews 13:8 NIV)

"Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows." ( James 1:17 NIV)

 

[Cliffy]

Remember that we are participating in a Christian discussion, Cliffy. I am here in support of the Subject - Christ. If I seem too consistent in my witness, it is because He is consistent:

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever." (Hebrews 13:8 NIV)

"Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows." ( James 1:17 NIV)

With upwards of 45 thousand different Christian sects, you are only giving witness to the one you adhere to. The point of being a Christian is to live like one; to be like Christ. So far all I have seen is people paying lip service to their beliefs and quoting passages out of context they don't really understand.

 

[Motar]

With upwards of 45 thousand different Christian sects, you are only giving witness to the one you adhere to. The point of being a Christian is to live like one; to be like Christ. So far all I have seen is people paying lip service to their beliefs and quoting passages out of context they don't really understand.

My witness concerns a Someone, not a something, Cliffy : )

 

[Cliffy]

My witness concerns a Someone, not a something, Cliffy : )

You are paying lip service to your beliefs. You cannot witness what cannot be seen. If you are saying you have seen Christ, you are either delusional or certifiable.

 

[MHz]

Yes, MHz, apostasy = falling away. Absolutely, apostasy = exchanging truth for a lie:

"They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen." (Romans 1:25 NIV)

I would suggest that John's reference to Babylon in Revelation depicts a spiritual domain rather than a literal, physical one.

I have read several papers about that concept but they all failed to find an end to that concept that doesn't require all of the OT also be myth including the event called 'the cross'. I would suggest that your view could be argued against in a most basic way. Eze:37 and the resurrection of the 12 Tribes also becomes spiritual rather than literal. One of the stronger arguments for a literal city is the vision and explanation in Re:17 and in Da:7 as the explanation is given in literal terms rather than spiritual terms.
The image mentioned in Re:13 is a false throne that has to be on holy ground in Jerusalem before somebody can sit on it and claim a Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled. that same 'false throne' is the subject of the verses below and considering where the two witnesses are killed Jerusalem cannot be ruled out. The widow part is specific to Jerusalem as far as what God will do to her before the 7th trump sounds. (let happen to her)

Re:13:14:
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;
saying to them that dwell on the earth,
that they should make an image to the beast,
which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Re:13:15:
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast,
that the image of the beast should both speak,
and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

M't:24:15:
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place,
(whoso readeth,
let him understand

Da:11:31:
And arms shall stand on his part,
and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength,
and shall take away the daily sacrifice,
and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

2Th:2:3:
Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition;
2Th:2:4:
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped;
so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God.

Jerusalem is #1 on the hit list when the vials are poured out. The destruction is completed within one hour and that is the same fire that was used on Sodom.

Re:11:8:
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city,
which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt,
where also our Lord was crucified.

Jer:25:15-18:
For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me;
Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand,
and cause all the nations,
to whom I send thee,
to drink it.
And they shall drink,
and be moved,
and be mad,
because of the sword that I will send among them.
Then took I the cup at the LORD's hand,
and made all the nations to drink,
unto whom the LORD had sent me:
To wit,
Jerusalem,
and the cities of Judah,
and the kings thereof,
and the princes thereof,
to make them a desolation,
an astonishment,
an hissing,
and a curse;
as it is this day;

Jer:25:28:
And it shall be,
if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink,
then shalt thou say unto them,
Thus saith the LORD of hosts;
Ye shall certainly drink.
Jer:25:29:
For,
lo,
I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name,
and should ye be utterly unpunished?
Ye shall not be unpunished:
for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth,
saith the LORD of hosts.

Re:11:12-15:
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them,
Come up hither.
And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud;
and their enemies beheld them.
And the same hour was there a great earthquake,
and the tenth part of the city fell,
and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand:
and the remnant were affrighted,
and gave glory to the God of heaven.
The second woe is past;
and,
behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
And the seventh angel sounded;
and there were great voices in heaven,
saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord,
and of his Christ;
and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Re:18:10:
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment,
saying,
Alas,
alas,
that great city Babylon,
that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Re:18:17:
For in one hour so great riches is come to nought.
And every shipmaster,
and all the company in ships,
and sailors,
and as many as trade by sea,
stood afar off,

Re:18:19:
And they cast dust on their heads,
and cried, weeping and wailing,
saying,
Alas,
alas,
that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Satan's Babylon lasts for only the time the two witnesses are in the grave and it is the first place taken by Christ. When Satan arrives on site when the 5th trump sounds he has 1260 days before the 7th trump sounds, on that day all 7 vials are poured out on his global kingdom. The rest of the globe fell into line on the 1st day of that first woe but the two witnesses save Jerusalem until the appointed time.

Re:18:8:
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day,
death,
and mourning,
and famine;
and she shall be utterly burned with fire:
for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

When Christ says. 'It is done.' when He pours out the last vial in Re:16 He is referencing the 2nd bruise from Ge:3:15 (and the last woman in Re:12). Jesus said, "it is finished.' while on the cross and that was a reference to the bruise to the heel from Ge:3:15 as well as Re:12 and the verses about Mary, the mother of Jesus.

You are paying lip service to your beliefs. You cannot witness what cannot be seen. If you are saying you have seen Christ, you are either delusional or certifiable.

He hears your witness cliffy, and you are not even a believer.

 

[Cliffy]

He hears your witness cliffy, and you are not even a believer.

You have no idea what I believe. And what I know is from personal experience with the divine, not from books, not from anything anybody else told me. I do not have faith in ancient books written by men because they are written by men and they certainly do not jive with what I get from the Source. The bible appeals only to the ego and the intellect and not to the soul. The ego cannot be trusted with matters of spirit.
There now you have but a tiny insight into where I'm coming from.

 

[taxslave]

The quality of our doctrine is fleshed out in our practice, Cliffy. Better is as better does. Remember that I regard you as having been created in the image and potential of the Supreme Being. Anticipating that your superior convictions will soon manifest in superior moral conduct, my expectations of you run high : )

How's about bringing your God over for tea to prove that he/she actually exists. Until you can produce your God is simply a myth and a crutch because you do not have any faith in yourself.

 

[MHz]

I didn't start to appreciate the Bible until I was older than 35. Your theory doesn't hold up in my case. If it wasn't a crutch before then, why would it become one after that. The book is too complex in that you need to look at all the books for references to a specific subject. The event we call the return is the most prophecised event in the book so examination of those passages would seem to be step number one in getting a preview picture of what event is supposed to look like.

How about some documentary about all the ancient stone monuments that are found in the world? They had to come from somewhere and the Bible is one of the books that allows for angelic beings having access to most of the globe for a very long time in that they are immortal beings who are also childless. They would be as old as the universe is and they learned all there is to know about it before they move onto their reward, a new heaven and this universe is left for men when God makes them as immortal as angelic beings are already. The flood killed their children, they were put into the Pit by another method. When Encoh mentioned it it was a prophecy, when Moses mentioned it it is a past event.

Jude:1:14:
And Enoch also,
the seventh from Adam,
prophesied of these,
saying,
Behold,
the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

De:33:2:
And he said,
The LORD came from Sinai,
and rose up from Seir unto them;
he shined forth from mount Paran,
and he came with ten thousands of saints:
from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

How about this 'connection' that exists but it would not be possible to make the connection until you knew what a modern globe looks like.

Jeremiah:25 specifies all the nations in the whole earth will come under judgement. The 4th seal prophecy gives 1/4 of the earth to 'evil forces' and in this case that would be Satan (the falling star in the 5th trump passage) and the Beast from the Pit (the king mentioned in that same passage). All the nations on the whole earth would fit into that 1/4 space if just the land area was claimed and I assume Satan is smart enough to do that considering he is the unofficial 'king of the whole earth during the 'latter days'. No other generation would be able to make a connection like that, one that supports the book rather than finding internal conflicts.

 

[Cliffy]

I didn't start to appreciate the Bible until I was older than 35. Your theory doesn't hold up in my case. If it wasn't a crutch before then, why would it become one after that. The book is too complex in that you need to look at all the books for references to a specific subject. The event we call the return is the most prophecised event in the book so examination of those passages would seem to be step number one in getting a preview picture of what event is supposed to look like.

It is still just an intellectual exercise, nothing more. That you see connections is just mind games that only you seem to be able to play. There is no spirit in what you say or write - just a bunch of mental masturbation.

 

[Motar]

You cannot witness what cannot be seen.

Who Has Seen the Wind?

Who has seen the wind?
Neither I nor you:
But when the leaves hang trembling,
The wind is passing through.

Who has seen the wind?
Neither you nor I:
But when the trees bow down their heads,
The wind is passing by.

(Christina Rossetti)

Christ is exceedingly visible in the characteristic results He produces in people's lives, Cliffy.

 

[Cliffy]

Christ is exceedingly visible in the characteristic results He produces in people's lives, Cliffy.

And what do you say about the 80+% hypocrite rate of most Christians?

[youtube]tVG1x-rh6FE[/youtube]

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Christ is exceedingly visible in the characteristic results He produces in people's lives...

What about all those many more lives in which he fails to produce anything? According to the UN, about 9 million children a year die before they reach 5 years old. Before you finish reading this post, some dozen or so innocents will have died in fear and agony, of starvation, disease, thirst, war... Their parents, most of them, will be praying that their children be spared. Their prayers will not be answered. Why is that, are they praying to the wrong deity? Is the deity powerless to prevent this? Or does he just choose not to? Until you can explain that in terms of the deity's powers, motives, and purposes, in a way that's consistent with the most basic of human moral impulses--the deity ought to be at least as moral as the best of us are--you've got nothing, you're just making stuff up and pissing into the wind.

By far the simplest explanation is that there's no deity involved, this is our fault and our problem and that's all there is.

 

[Motar]

Who Has Seen the Wind?

Who has seen the wind?
Neither I nor you:
But when the leaves hang trembling,
The wind is passing through.

Who has seen the wind?
Neither you nor I:
But when the trees bow down their heads,
The wind is passing by.

(Christina Rossetti)

Christ is exceedingly visible in the characteristic results He produces in people's lives, Cliffy.

I am speaking about Christ-like character in people I know personally, Cliffy and Dex. You are speaking about statistics and hypotheticals.

 

[MHz]

You have no idea what I believe. And what I know is from personal experience with the divine, not from books, not from anything anybody else told me. I do not have faith in ancient books written by men because they are written by men and they certainly do not jive with what I get from the Source. The bible appeals only to the ego and the intellect and not to the soul. The ego cannot be trusted with matters of spirit.
There now you have but a tiny insight into where I'm coming from.

Without the leash the dog would be with the child. The child is going towards salvation, the rich man is walking away from it.
That would have to mean you have never posted it before because I have read all your posts since I've been here. You are certainly free to come up with your own version of who God is using any methods you want. That being said why do you have so many objections to me having a version that uses the same book you refuse to use?
In your case the ratio is probably in the high 90's, even then what do you do with the small percent that aren't false or fickle but have a good handle on what the religion is all about?

You can make up things about God but why be so silly as to make it something that the Bible disagrees with. If any person was to live past the age of 120 God would have to judge them as being an immortal and the punishment for an immortal that sins is the lake of fire. The person who dies before the age of 120 goes to the grave and they are retrieved from the grave at 1 of 2 times and nobody goes to the lake of fire unless they sin after this point in time. After that point in time any person will be looked at as being sinless at that age so there is no punishment that comes with immortality.

For the 100th time, your pic is in error, nobody gets the reward of not going to the grave at the moment, the rich and the poor go to a common grave and the souls of some people will come to this earth on the day of the Re:20:4 resurrection. It is a group event and the poor that you say god has turned His back on will be part of the 'Church' long before the people who had riches in this life. The vast majority will have died without that being applied as life begins at conception with God so the Great White Throne will see the vast majority of Gentiles come back from the literal grave. Showing you the verses would not be helpful if the first time didn't open your eyes to what the book actually promotes. You seem to hear only the 90% and the remainder isn't heard no matter how loud they are in delivering the 'proper understanding' when using the book.

Isa:54:1:
Sing,
O barren,
thou that didst not bear;
break forth into singing,
and cry aloud,
thou that didst not travail with child:
for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife,
saith the LORD.

Christ is exceedingly visible in the characteristic results He produces in people's lives, Cliffy.

This is the action Christ will use to judge how well a person is living up to the 2nd Law.

Jas:2:5-18:
Hearken,
my beloved brethren,
Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith,
and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
But ye have despised the poor.
Do not rich men oppress you,
and draw you before the judgment seats?
Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself,
ye do well:
But if ye have respect to persons,
ye commit sin,
and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law,
and yet offend in one point,
he is guilty of all.
For he that said,
Do not commit adultery,
said also,
Do not kill.
Now if thou commit no adultery,
yet if thou kill,
thou art become a transgressor of the law.
So speak ye,
and so do,
as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
For he shall have judgment without mercy,
that hath shewed no mercy;
and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
What doth it profit,
my brethren,
though a man say he hath faith,
and have not works?
can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked,
and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them,
Depart in peace,
be ye warmed and filled;
notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body;
what doth it profit?
Even so faith,
if it hath not works,
is dead,
being alone.
Yea,
a man may say,
Thou hast faith,
and I have works:
shew me thy faith without thy works,
and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

 

[gerryh]

I am speaking about Christ-like character in people I know personally, Cliffy and Dex. You are speaking about statistics and hypotheticals.

His is a valid question. One, people like you, never answer directly.

 

[MHz]

By far the simplest explanation is that there's no deity involved, this is our fault and our problem and that's all there is.

God left the feeding of the poor in the hands of the people that controlled the sword against evil people. The verses below state quite clearly who is responsible for feeding the poor, they will also pay the price for saying they are believers but not doing the deeds that come naturally when a person is actually a believer about taking care of the ones you can see.

M't:25:31-46: When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,
Come,
ye blessed of my Father,
inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred,
and ye gave me meat:
I was thirsty,
and ye gave me drink:
I was a stranger,
and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me:
I was sick,
and ye visited me:
I was in prison,
and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him,
saying,
Lord,
when saw we thee an hungred,
and fed thee?
or thirsty,
and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger,
and took thee in?
or naked,
and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick,
or in prison,
and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them,
Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren,
ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,
Depart from me,
ye cursed,
into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred,
and ye gave me no meat:
I was thirsty,
and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger,
and ye took me not in:
naked,
and ye clothed me not: sick,
and in prison,
and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him,
saying,
Lord,
when saw we thee an hungred,
or athirst,
or a stranger,
or naked,
or sick,
or in prison,
and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them,
saying,
Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these,
ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
but the righteous into life eternal.

M't:7:21:
Not every one that saith unto me,
Lord,
Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Lu:6:46:
And why call ye me,
Lord,
Lord,
and do not the things which I say?

What about all those many more lives in which he fails to produce anything? According to the UN, about 9 million children a year die before they reach 5 years old. Before you finish reading this post, some dozen or so innocents will have died in fear and agony, of starvation, disease, thirst, war...

Short answer, all concieved flesh on this earth bt man, bird, fish or animal is part of the seed bank that is 'alive' at the start of the new earth era. Man will enter it already alive and the living water that comes out of New Jerusalem will restore the life of the other flesh that had life on this earth. That makes it start off with a flourish and then settle back into the normal flow that we are familiar with.

Their parents, most of them, will be praying that their children be spared. Their prayers will not be answered.

For a desolate life, they are probably cursing the day they were born since their life is nothing but turmoil. God looks at people under 20 as being infants, it is between the age of 20-120 that God looks at a persons actions and uses those to classify them as far as then being gathered or being punished and then be gathered.

Why is that, are they praying to the wrong deity? Is the deity powerless to prevent this? Or does he just choose not to?

Again, salvation is a group event with two distinct stages, there is no salvation before or after those two events.

Until you can explain that in terms of the deity's powers, motives, and purposes, in a way that's consistent with the most basic of human moral impulses--

Moral human impulses?? We would kill our closest neighbors if we got hungry enough. This earth is a flawed earth, the things that go wrong here that cause a person to have tears is an example of what the fiery lake will be like for fallen angels. They have immortality but lack compassion (and all the other emotions Adam and Eve had that made them good shepherds for the flesh they had dominion over) The difference is in this earth sometimes something works out right and that brings in a moment or two of joy. Fallen angels and the men sent to hell will not get any of those brief moments, For the men in hell it lasts onlt until the Great White Throne event and by then all would have repented just as Jonah did.

the deity ought to be at least as moral as the best of us are--you've got nothing, you're just making stuff up and pissing into the wind.

Faith isn't supposed be based on concrete thing and that won't be available until the trumps start to sound, the clock will be literally ticking starting right then.
I'm familiar with the sequence that should follow, are you??

His is a valid question. One, people like you, never answer directly.

What question would that be and where is your reply to it? ( considering you are a Christian and all of that )

 

[gerryh]

What question would that be and where is your reply to it? ( considering you are a Christian and all of that )

I'm not the one filling the board with bullshyte and drivel.