Well, that's just it, I think we all should do what we can to reduce the load on the overloaded medical system and also reduce cost on unnecessary medicine, but the medics are there for good reason.
Alberta Toddler's Death Shows Danger Of Unproven Remedies
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Well, that's just it, I think we all should do what we can to reduce the load on the overloaded medical system and also reduce cost on unnecessary medicine, but the medics are there for good reason.
If only that were so. It appears 'we' hold back the medical help that is available so how are 'we' moral to start off with? (this is not an excuse for what the stupid parents did. They are the kinds of Christians that listen but never ask any question.
25,000: The average number of children dying each day is 25,000 | Fact of the week | UNICEF
The annual number of global under-five deaths has dropped from 12.5 million in 1990 to less than 9 million in 2008. Even so, an average of 25,000 children under five are dying each day, mostly from causes preventable with low-cost, proven interventions.
Alberta Toddler's Death Shows Danger Of Unproven Remedies
An Alberta toddler's death from meningitis is prompting health-care professionals to sound off on the danger of unproven, alternative medicine.
David and Collet Stephan pleaded not guilty in early March for failing to provide the necessities of life for their 19-month-old son.
Initially, the Stephans thought their son had croup, and treated him with natural remedies including ginger root, horseradish and onion.
A family friend and registered nurse testified Wednesday that she told Ezekiel's mother he may have viral meningitis.
"I think you should take him to see a doctor," she testified as having said on March 11, 2012.
Instead, the couple decided to take him to a naturopath. Ezekiel's body was so stiff from illness he couldn't sit in his car seat, and had to lie on the floor of his parents' car as they drove to pick up echinacea for him.
They did not call 911 until Ezekiel had stopped breathing. He died a few days later from a combination of bacterial meningitis and a lung infection.
Was Ezekiel's death unnecessary?
Medical ethicist Arthur Caplan believes Ezekiel suffered unnecessarily for his parents' beliefs.
"When you have a little kid who is sick, seriously sick, and a nurse tells you that it might be meningitis and you continue to pursue interventions that clearly aren’t working, you’ve got to bring that kid into a mainstream health facility," Caplan told The National Post.
David Stephan, Ezekiel's father, is an employee of Truehope Nutritional Support, a supplement company run out of Raymond, Alta. He's also the son of the company's co-founder, Anthony Stephan.
Truehope: controversial alternative medicine
Health Canada has issued warnings against Truehope a number of times for claims that its supplement, EMPowerplus, can treat bipolar disorder and other mental illnesses.
In 2011, Truehope was highly criticized after a Vancouver man killed his father and attempted to kill his mother while taking EMPowerplus vitamins instead of his prescribed anti-psychotic medication.
The company's website still suggests patients with mental illness use its supplements to transition off of psychiatric medications.
Prosecutors at the Stephans' trial claimed that Ezekiel was also treated with EMPowerplus before his death, according to CBC.
Alternative medicine no replacement for the real thing
One natural health practitioner in Edmonton says serious illnesses like meningitis need be treated by someone with actual medical training.
“When it is an acute disease of any sort, I do send them to the hospital,” Dr. Harbakhash Sandhar, a practicing homeopath and medical doctor by training, told Metro News.
Sandhar said cases like Ezekiels make him worry about "Mickey Mouse homeopaths."
The Crown is not arguing that the Stephans didn't love or care for their son, but that they should have sought medical help for him much sooner, according to CBC News.
Section 215 of Canada's criminal code states that parents have a duty to provide necessities of life to their children, which includes medical care.
The Stephans are currently calling for donations on their Facebook page to help fund their court case. The pair have posted arguments that "the government" and "vaccine industry" are trying to "attack" their family in favour of a "vaccine agenda."
Alberta Toddler's Death Shows Danger Of Unproven Remedies
The story conveniently neglects to mention the number of people of all ages that die because of misdiagnosis or poor treatment by so-called doctors.Not also that it was a Naturopath that said the kid needed medical help beyond what she was capable of providing.
I read an article on HuffPost that shows that the circumstances concerning the little ones death, were not as straightforward as first reported. If interested in the whole story, google it.
That is your job isn't it? There are probably lots of horror stories, starting with adopted kids and abuse to the point of death being more common than rare. That is why Putin stopped allowing orphans to be adopted by Americans.
That disease is what they should give the parents.
That disease is what they should give the parents.
Probably, how about they catch what the baby had and they would have to deny themselves any better care than they were willing to give to somebody they were supposed to love.
Really? If I killed my child that way I would certainly want to be right behind him compared to being in torment the rest of my life. Might as well do it work in their case, with a big sign saying 'this **** don't work'.
In this case it would be used to pass laws terminating 'self-help' information.
Really? If I killed my child that way I would certainly want to be right behind him compared to being in torment the rest of my life. Might as well do it work in their case, with a big sign saying 'this **** don't work'.
In this case it would be used to pass laws terminating 'self-help' information.
The Crown in the trial of an Alberta couple charged with failing to provide the necessaries of life to their toddler son says the case isn’t about a lack of love — it’s about failure to provide medical help when he needed it.
“This trial is not about murder. It is not about manslaughter. It is not about any offence concerning death. The Crown does not need to prove the accused contributed in any way or had a hand in a death,” prosecutor Lisa Weich said Saturday in her final submission to the eight woman-four man jury.
“They didn’t fail to love him. That’s not what this is about. They failed in their duty to provide medical attention. A reasonably prudent parent would have recognized, would have foreseen that Ezekiel was at risk of danger.”
“A reasonably prudent parent wouldn’t, as David said — wait and see if he got worse,” said Weich.
“Failing to take him to a doctor was a marked departure from what a reasonably prudent parent would have done … it’s far below the minimum standard of care for children that society expects. They should not have walked to the hospital — they should have run.”
A friend of the Stephans, who is a registered nurse, testified she told the mother that he might have viral meningitis and advised the boy be taken to a doctor.
Weich recounted David Stephan’s description of Ezekiel’s change in breathing the night he went to hospital. She said it was a six count followed by about five seconds where he seemed to be holding his breath.
Weich was silent for five seconds before continuing her submission.
“That’s five seconds. Imagine your kid not breathing for five seconds,” she continued.
“What do the accused do? The accused wait until Ezekiel stops breathing.”
The charge to the jury is scheduled for Monday afternoon.
Couple on trial in son’s meningitis death accused of not doing what ‘reasonably prudent parent would do’ | National Post
“This trial is not about murder. It is not about manslaughter. It is not about any offence concerning death. The Crown does not need to prove the accused contributed in any way or had a hand in a death,” prosecutor Lisa Weich said Saturday in her final submission to the eight woman-four man jury.
“They didn’t fail to love him. That’s not what this is about. They failed in their duty to provide medical attention. A reasonably prudent parent would have recognized, would have foreseen that Ezekiel was at risk of danger.”
“A reasonably prudent parent wouldn’t, as David said — wait and see if he got worse,” said Weich.
“Failing to take him to a doctor was a marked departure from what a reasonably prudent parent would have done … it’s far below the minimum standard of care for children that society expects. They should not have walked to the hospital — they should have run.”
A friend of the Stephans, who is a registered nurse, testified she told the mother that he might have viral meningitis and advised the boy be taken to a doctor.
Weich recounted David Stephan’s description of Ezekiel’s change in breathing the night he went to hospital. She said it was a six count followed by about five seconds where he seemed to be holding his breath.
Weich was silent for five seconds before continuing her submission.
“That’s five seconds. Imagine your kid not breathing for five seconds,” she continued.
“What do the accused do? The accused wait until Ezekiel stops breathing.”
The charge to the jury is scheduled for Monday afternoon.
Couple on trial in son’s meningitis death accused of not doing what ‘reasonably prudent parent would do’ | National Post
While it is sad a young life is gone this case becomes about how much we are willing to let the "nanny state" invade our personal life and choices. For me the govt is already far to invasive and overreaching. One always has to look at this type of event and not compare it to their own opinions on medical care but compare it to a subject where they disagree with govt. If you do not want govt and other members of society dictating the entirety of your life then you must allow others that freedom also even if you disagree with their position.
Somewhere back in the dark ages I was told that to be convicted of a crime one had to have had the intention of committing the crime. This couple probably needs a better lawyer! Time to back off, they've already gone through Hell!
Their other children need protection. These people are as delusional as snake handlers.
They ditched their original lawyer for a 'naturopathic' one named Shawn Buckley.
And I don't think the crown should back off.
I know the Childrens Aid are involved with them to protect the other kids but the father is stunningly unrepentant about his actions that caused Ezekiel to die.
It's not enough for him to claim that 'we really loved him' or to say 'we did what we felt was best'. When the nurse suggested Ezekiel had meningitis he should have at least gone to a Doctor to verify this possibility instead of playing Doctor.
Alberta father convicted in son’s meningitis death posts letter to jury on Facebook | Globalnews.ca
Why should we protect kids like Ezekiel Stephan from alternative medicine, but not Makayla Sault?
Eleven-year-old Makayla Sault had been diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia — which has a 70 to 80 per cent or higher survival rate, according to doctors — but had chosen, along with her parents, to discontinue chemotherapy and opt instead for traditional native medicine and other alternative therapies. Makayla claimed at the time that the chemo was “killing her body,” and said that she had seen a vision of Jesus, who told her she would be cured. Doctors warned that there was a 100 per cent chance that Makayla would relapse if she didn’t continue with chemotherapy, but Makayla’s mother was confident that the alternative therapies would work. “There are people in our community who have been on traditional medicines and are well today and are thriving,” she said. “We know that our traditional medicines work. We know that our daughter is going to be OK.” Makayla died on Jan. 19.
The big difference between the cases of Makayla Sault and Ezekiel Stephan was that Makayla was old enough to offer her input on her own medical care, whereas Ezekiel was helpless and totally dependent on his parents to get him the treatment he needed. Nevertheless, it is fair to wonder — and perhaps to believe — that if both children were born at another time, or to different parents, that they wouldn’t be made to suffer preventable deaths: Makayla might not have suffered a stroke at 11 years old; Ezekiel’s lungs might’ve not have filled with pus as his body painfully froze in position.
Arguably, both children died because their parents opted for alternative treatments instead of proven science: that one alternative treatment had “aboriginal” in its name does not make it any more credible. The Canadian justice system is in the process of ensuring that children like Ezekiel — those born to non-aboriginal parents — won’t suffer as he did. It should do the same for children like Makayla.
more
Robyn Urback: Why should we protect kids like Ezekiel Stephan from alternative medicine, but not Makayla Sault? | National Post
Eleven-year-old Makayla Sault had been diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia — which has a 70 to 80 per cent or higher survival rate, according to doctors — but had chosen, along with her parents, to discontinue chemotherapy and opt instead for traditional native medicine and other alternative therapies. Makayla claimed at the time that the chemo was “killing her body,” and said that she had seen a vision of Jesus, who told her she would be cured. Doctors warned that there was a 100 per cent chance that Makayla would relapse if she didn’t continue with chemotherapy, but Makayla’s mother was confident that the alternative therapies would work. “There are people in our community who have been on traditional medicines and are well today and are thriving,” she said. “We know that our traditional medicines work. We know that our daughter is going to be OK.” Makayla died on Jan. 19.
The big difference between the cases of Makayla Sault and Ezekiel Stephan was that Makayla was old enough to offer her input on her own medical care, whereas Ezekiel was helpless and totally dependent on his parents to get him the treatment he needed. Nevertheless, it is fair to wonder — and perhaps to believe — that if both children were born at another time, or to different parents, that they wouldn’t be made to suffer preventable deaths: Makayla might not have suffered a stroke at 11 years old; Ezekiel’s lungs might’ve not have filled with pus as his body painfully froze in position.
Arguably, both children died because their parents opted for alternative treatments instead of proven science: that one alternative treatment had “aboriginal” in its name does not make it any more credible. The Canadian justice system is in the process of ensuring that children like Ezekiel — those born to non-aboriginal parents — won’t suffer as he did. It should do the same for children like Makayla.
more
Robyn Urback: Why should we protect kids like Ezekiel Stephan from alternative medicine, but not Makayla Sault? | National Post
You know what? I think they were damned if they do and damned if they don't. Has anyone been to an emergency department of a hospital lately? They're usually filed with people who have small children who are coughing, sneezing, running fevers etc. and I've often thought that good grief, they've simply got colds - why are they here? Is it a real emergency? Are they over-reacting? Each time I've had to go to the emergency (to pick up my mom), I see this and I wonder if we're wasting resources.
When it comes to Meningitis, it is extremely important to get medical help right away. My oldest sister (she's 66 now) had it when she was a year old. I remember my mom saying that when she got sick, mom had a feeling it was serious but her mother-in-law (with whom my mom and dad lived with at the time) said that all babies get fevers and not to worry. Mom ended up hitching up a horse to the carriage herself because no one wanted her to take the baby to the hospital and when she did, the doctor took one look at my sister and said that she had to go to Edmonton to the hospital there because she was extremely ill and they couldn't treat her where they were in N. Alberta. Mom and my sister had to go to Edmonton by train to the University Hospital.
My sister survived but she's mentally and physically challenged as a result. If my mom had listened to her mother-in-law, she'd be dead!
I guess my point is that anyone could end up in this situation except for 2 things: the child's age and the fact that someone suggested to them that it could be Meningitis and that maybe they should seek medical assistance. I think both of those is what the jury took into consideration to find them guilty. I doubt if they'll actually see any jail time; I'm betting they have regrets that no one will ever be able to relieve them of having.
JMO
When it comes to Meningitis, it is extremely important to get medical help right away. My oldest sister (she's 66 now) had it when she was a year old. I remember my mom saying that when she got sick, mom had a feeling it was serious but her mother-in-law (with whom my mom and dad lived with at the time) said that all babies get fevers and not to worry. Mom ended up hitching up a horse to the carriage herself because no one wanted her to take the baby to the hospital and when she did, the doctor took one look at my sister and said that she had to go to Edmonton to the hospital there because she was extremely ill and they couldn't treat her where they were in N. Alberta. Mom and my sister had to go to Edmonton by train to the University Hospital.
My sister survived but she's mentally and physically challenged as a result. If my mom had listened to her mother-in-law, she'd be dead!
I guess my point is that anyone could end up in this situation except for 2 things: the child's age and the fact that someone suggested to them that it could be Meningitis and that maybe they should seek medical assistance. I think both of those is what the jury took into consideration to find them guilty. I doubt if they'll actually see any jail time; I'm betting they have regrets that no one will ever be able to relieve them of having.
JMO
It's more than just your opinion. My Dad used to tell the story of when he was in hospital back in 1930, there was a little girl in there with spinal meningitis and he listened to her scream for four days before she mercifully died. At that time there was nothing they could do for spinal meningitis or for the excruciating pain.
In this case the parents are supporting the child's decision at at 11 a person does know a few things and are quite capable of making long term decisions. We are pushing that seniors get to decide if suicide is the right move for them, perhaps we should be looking at that as a right that every informed person can make. An OD on morphine is a kinder way to go that 40 days of starvation IMO.
Here is a 12 year old speaking, does she know what she is talking about.
Here is a 12 year old speaking, does she know what she is talking about.
Doctors are the third leading cause of death in North America:
"Medical errors may be 3rd leading cause of death in U.S."
Medical errors may be 3rd leading cause of death in U.S. - Health - CBC News
so...
Religious wackos are the problem?
Looks like some doctors need to burn in hell, as well as the parents who trusted them
also;
If the government ever stops paying for pain meds (I'm guessing that's the PLAN)
Elder suicide will come into style big time:
That'll save some tax dollars, and those disappearing pension funds too.
geez, then there is calling baby vaccine death "shaken baby syndrome"
darn do it by the book wackos
"Medical errors may be 3rd leading cause of death in U.S."
Medical errors may be 3rd leading cause of death in U.S. - Health - CBC News
so...
Religious wackos are the problem?
Looks like some doctors need to burn in hell, as well as the parents who trusted them
also;
If the government ever stops paying for pain meds (I'm guessing that's the PLAN)
Elder suicide will come into style big time:
That'll save some tax dollars, and those disappearing pension funds too.
geez, then there is calling baby vaccine death "shaken baby syndrome"
darn do it by the book wackos
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People should not be doing these kinds of things. There are doctors and medical experts for a reason. This is no different compared to when women give birth outside of hospitals because they feel they don't need to hospital facilities. But when the kid comes out with a flat head, those same people rush to those same facilities they shunned at first. Some people are just dense.