Alberta Toddler's Death Shows Danger Of Unproven Remedies

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,387
9,547
113
Washington DC
Precisely and one of the main reasons we invaded Afghanistan - poppies. Poppy production is a 1000 fold what it was before invasion.
Perhaps the most tragically ironic part is that there is substantial anecdotal evidence that cannabis is an effective treatment for both chronic pain and the physical and psychological problems of PTSD and TBI, which are major problems among the veterans who served in Afghanistan.

The reason the evidence is anecdotal is that you can't do structured research on cannabis because it's illegal.

That's OK, just give 'em opioids. Because they're safe.

Doctors at the Department of Veterans Affairs medical facilities are forbidden to talk to their patients about cannabis in any way. Even in states where cannabis is legal. It's a firing offense.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
1
36
A father has been sentenced to four months in jail and his wife to three months of house arrest after being found guilty of failing to provide the necessaries of life for their 19-month-old son, who died from bacterial meningitis.

David Stephan, 33, and his wife Collet, 36, were convicted by a Lethbridge jury in April after their trial was told they used naturopathic remedies rather than seeking medical treatment for the boy, Ezekiel.

Justice Rodney Jerke said the Stephans were caring parents and neither intended to put the boy's life at risk.

But at the same time the judge noted the Stephans made a conscious decision not to see a doctor for well over a day​ before he was rushed to hospital.

"Any reasonable and prudent person would have taken action," he said, as Collet sobbed quietly.

The prosecution had asked for a sentence in the range of three to 4½ years in prison, while the defence had argued for a suspended or conditional sentence with no time behind bars.

Jerke said the Crown's request was "far too harsh."

David Stephan gets jail time, Collet Stephan gets house arrest in son's meningitis death - Calgary - CBC News
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
5
36
London, Ontario
Yes, that's what I said. You've made it a crime to fail to consult the government-approved "expert" when the government decides you should (or should have).

Fine but where does the line get drawn? Or are you suggesting there not be a line at all? Failure to provide the necessities of life is an inconsequential matter?

Couple of Breatharians have a kid, decide that, according to their beliefs, child doesn't need food. They are providing this child with all the air and sunshine a growing body could need. Shockingly, the child subsequently dies. Are there no consequences for the parent? After all they have failed to consult a government-approved expert and went with their own well honed intuition. What is the difference between these people and someone with depraved indifference over human life? Intention. And I get that you can't legislate against stupid but we should be able to legislate to some degree to protect us/society from stupid.

Lines have to be drawn somewhere. A child dying of something that has a 100% (or near 100%) cure rate is just not acceptable.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Fine but where does the line get drawn? Or are you suggesting there not be a line at all? Failure to provide the necessities of life is an inconsequential matter?

Couple of Breatharians have a kid, decide that, according to their beliefs, child doesn't need food. They are providing this child with all the air and sunshine a growing body could need. Shockingly, the child subsequently dies. Are there no consequences for the parent? After all they have failed to consult a government-approved expert and went with their own well honed intuition. What is the difference between these people and someone with depraved indifference over human life? Intention. And I get that you can't legislate against stupid but we should be able to legislate to some degree to protect us/society from stupid.

Lines have to be drawn somewhere. A child dying of something that has a 100% (or near 100%) cure rate is just not acceptable.


I can see one change that should be made right off the bat. It should be a law in Canada that EVERYONE is vaccinated against communicable and potentially deadly diseases (unless three doctors declare a person fatally allergic to the vaccine)
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,387
9,547
113
Washington DC
Fine but where does the line get drawn? Or are you suggesting there not be a line at all? Failure to provide the necessities of life is an inconsequential matter?

Couple of Breatharians have a kid, decide that, according to their beliefs, child doesn't need food. They are providing this child with all the air and sunshine a growing body could need. Shockingly, the child subsequently dies. Are there no consequences for the parent? After all they have failed to consult a government-approved expert and went with their own well honed intuition. What is the difference between these people and someone with depraved indifference over human life? Intention. And I get that you can't legislate against stupid but we should be able to legislate to some degree to protect us/society from stupid.

Lines have to be drawn somewhere. A child dying of something that has a 100% (or near 100%) cure rate is just not acceptable.
Once upon a time, you drew the line at letting FN parents raise their own kids.

Are you sure the line you're drawing this time is the right one? Canadians were sure the line was right then.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Once upon a time, you drew the line at letting FN parents raise their own kids.

Are you sure the line you're drawing this time is the right one? Canadians were sure the line was right then.


The line is moving in the right direction, I think. When it comes to health care there should be no such thing as "FN" or Greek or Slavic or Italian. We are all Canadians or at least should be treated as such.............................no special treatment for anyone.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
1
36
In July, I reported on the possibility that alternative medicine may have led to death in the case of Jordan Ramsey in Vancouver. Ramsay murdered his father and severely injured his mother while in a schizophrenic psychotic state. He had stopped his prescription medication at that time in favour of a vitamin product, Empowerplus ® (EMP), being touted as an alternative treatment for prescription medication. The real culprit, however, may actually be Health Canada, which seems to have been unable to enforce the law.

The key question is why this product is still being sold in Canada. Section Three of the Canadian Food and Drug Act stipulates that companies cannot make treatment, preventative or cure claims for food, drug, cosmetics or devices for conditions like acute psychotic conditions and depression as set out in Schedule A without preapproval. Truehope/Synergy has been doing so for years with no scientifically reliable proof for their claims.

Strikingly, their own expert witness does not think Empowerplus® health claims have been proven and, in fact, they have not. And, Dr. Philip Long of Vancouver stated a few years earlier that this "is a total medical fraud. There is absolutely no scientifically sound (double blind, randomized) clinical trial that has shown this vitamin mixture to be effecti

On May 11, 2007, Health Canada sent a letter warning the company to stop instructing people to go off psychiatric meds. Later in December 2007 Health Canada wrote Truehope/Synergy Group directing them to stop representing that Empowerplus® is safe for pregnant women, as was done in the company's presentation to the North Peace Tribal Council. Truehope/Synergy responded with a letter in which they asserted Health Canada's accusations against them are false and that they are compliant with applicable law and regulation.

In an article in the Ottawa Citizen in 2003 now on a mental health website, it was estimated that with 3,000 customers at that time, Hardy and Stephan were grossing $500,000 a month. Stephan disagreed and said, "It's more like $300,000 and a lot of the money goes to pay the 55 'support' workers who operate the phones." But, according to an interview that Stephan gave to Alternative Mental Health in the U.S., the research assistants (mostly former patients), work for expenses only.

Dr. E. Fuller Torrey, a well-known research psychiatrist who is executive director of the Stanley Medical Research Institute in Bethesda, Maryland, told the Citizen that, "In the more than 30 years I have been studying mental illnesses, there have always been some people who have made a good living treating people with schizophrenia with various vitamin mixtures,"

Someone needs to explain to Canadians and to LeeAnn Ramsay, the sister of the murdered man, what happened. As of this moment, according to Health Canada, Empowerplus® is still not authorized for sale in Canada because of the health claims associated with the product. Yet we need to know why it is still for sale now.

Why is Health Canada Still Allowing Quack Medicine to be Sold to Dangerous Psychotics?Â*|Â*Marvin Ross
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,387
9,547
113
Washington DC
The line is moving in the right direction, I think. When it comes to health care there should be no such thing as "FN" or Greek or Slavic or Italian. We are all Canadians or at least should be treated as such.............................no special treatment for anyone.
Right. No treatment for breast cancer, ovarian cancer, or testicular cancer. No treatment for sickle-cell anemia or Tay-Sachs disease.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
The line is moving in the right direction, I think. When it comes to health care there should be no such thing as "FN" or Greek or Slavic or Italian. We are all Canadians or at least should be treated as such.............................no special treatment for anyone.
That is down right fascist. Pharmaceuticals kill thousands every year, Vaccines kill and damage hundreds. So called alternative medicines have a 10,000 year history of use and track record. Fukk Big Pharma and their poisons. If I get sick, I go out in the forest and find my own, but mostly, I prevent it with real medicines that Nature provides.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
1
36
That is down right fascist. Pharmaceuticals kill thousands every year, Vaccines kill and damage hundreds. So called alternative medicines have a 10,000 year history of use and track record. Fukk Big Pharma and their poisons. If I get sick, I go out in the forest and find my own, but mostly, I prevent it with real medicines that Nature provides.

Some products from nature will help with some illness's but this was a serious illness that people used to die from once they got it and the concoction they gave him was made from products that had zero medicinal additives.

And you do have the right to refuse treatment for yourself but you should not have that right to refuse accepted treatment for someone in your care who is too young to make that call or understand the consequences....



Alberta Crown to appeal

Alberta prosecutors say the sentences given last month to a couple who failed to get proper medical treatment for their son who later died of bacterial meningitis are insufficient given the seriousness of the crime.

The couple was found guilty of failing to provide the necessaries of life to their 19-month-old son Ezekiel in 2012.

The toddler was treated with hot peppers, garlic, onions and horseradish for several weeks and later died in a Calgary hospital.

Crown is appealing the sentence on several grounds. It will argue the sentences aren't "proportionate to the gravity of the offence or to the degree of responsibility of the offender, and is unfit."

The justice said that although both parents were "wilfully blind" to the boy's condition, the father was especially so, adding David Stephan seemed more concerned about being punished than about his inaction when his son was sick.

"Mr. Stephan's post-conviction actions demonstrate a complete lack of remorse," the judge told the court in Lethbridge, Alta.

"To this day he refuses to admit his actions had any impact."

The prosecution had asked for a sentence in the range of three to 4 ½ years, but Jerke said that was too much.

The Stephans never called for medical assistance until Ezekiel stopped breathing. He was rushed to a local hospital, and died after being transported to Calgary Children's Hospital.

Give Stephans tougher sentences in son's meningitis death, Alberta Crown urges on appeal - Calgary - CBC News
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
That is down right fascist. Pharmaceuticals kill thousands every year, Vaccines kill and damage hundreds. So called alternative medicines have a 10,000 year history of use and track record. Fukk Big Pharma and their poisons. If I get sick, I go out in the forest and find my own, but mostly, I prevent it with real medicines that Nature provides.


What do you think many of the drugs from the drug store are comprised of? The very things you speak of such as Fox Gloves, Cascara etc. When you get the stuff straight out of the bush and use it are you getting exact measured doses, that is correct for your condition, weight etc. How do you know it isn't contaminated? Maybe a coyote pissed on the plant!
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,467
139
63
Location, Location
That is down right fascist. Pharmaceuticals kill thousands every year, Vaccines kill and damage hundreds. So called alternative medicines have a 10,000 year history of use and track record. Fukk Big Pharma and their poisons. If I get sick, I go out in the forest and find my own, but mostly, I prevent it with real medicines that Nature provides.



And, as part of that, if by doing this you kill your kid, you should go to jail for 25 years.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
And, as part of that, if by doing this you kill your kid, you should go to jail for 25 years.


I think we have to recognize it is a very fine line we tread. In 60 odd years we've seen the norm go from suffering with a condition for weeks/months before going to see a doctor. Now days a lot of people high tail it to the doc 5 minutes after developing a sniffle. We are very shortly going to have to start heading back in the other direction for a few reasons. Doctor shortages in most areas, lack of funding to cover all medical conditions and becoming over immune to a lot of prescription drugs. Many of the smart doctors now have simply quit prescribing for many conditions. I've been told on several occasions "here's a prescription but for X days before filling it". I'm not sure just what the couple in question should have been sentenced to. For one thing stupidity is not against the law. For another their mindset may have been close to the mark as they weren't neglecting the kid per se, just treating him with the wrong stuff and they came to the correct decision a bit late. If left up to Mother Nature many conditions correct themselves without treatment. This obviously turned out not to be one of them. However if you know or even think you have Spinal meningitis you head for the doc yesterday!

How long should the doctors go to jail for the 30,000-60,000 Canadians they kill every year through medical error?


Do you have a link to those figures? How many of them would get anywhere in court?
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,387
9,547
113
Washington DC
Do you have a link to those figures? How many of them would get anywhere in court?
I do, but I'm not your google bitch. Medical error is the third leading cause of preventable death in Canada.

But I think you'll be happier if you just keep singing the praises of the medical establishment and calling for the imprisonment of anybody that fails to regard them as shining angels of mercy.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
I do, but I'm not your google bitch. Medical error is the third leading cause of preventable death in Canada.

But I think you'll be happier if you just keep singing the praises of the medical establishment and calling for the imprisonment of anybody that fails to regard them as shining angels of mercy.


And what constitutes medical error? What and how much responsibility does the patient have for his own health? I suspect it may be many of those who do NOT regard them as the shining "angels of mercy" that could be a little lax about following the doctor's orders. Why wouldn't a person whose life has been saved/extended two or three times by the medical profession and partly due to my own life style not regard them as "angels of mercy"? To think otherwise can be pretty f**king ignorant! :) :) By the same token (as in any profession) there are a few duds.

I do, but I'm not your google bitch. Medical error is the third leading cause of preventable death in Canada.


I would guess that you as a lawyer wouldn't be so hypocritical & irresponsible to defend these bumbling incompetents in court! :) :)
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,387
9,547
113
Washington DC
I would guess that you as a lawyer wouldn't be so hypocritical & irresponsible to defend these bumbling incompetents in court! :) :)
I'll defend anybody in court. The counsel's job is to present his client's case, not to judge whether they're right or wrong, guilty or innocent. That's the job of the judge or jury.

Surprising how many of you laypeople don't get that.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
I'll defend anybody in court. The counsel's job is to present his client's case, not to judge whether they're right or wrong, guilty or innocent. That's the job of the judge or jury.

Surprising how many of you laypeople don't get that.


Post # 76 suggests you already have!