Liberals are considering a guaranteed income for all Canadians

[MHz]

This is an utterly stupid idea for a country the size of Canada. How do you determine a minimum income to cover basic needs when the costs of those needs vary substantially from city to city, region to region and province to province?

Perhaps they just need to send it to the utility and rental offices and today the 'northern living allowance' could be done at the click of the button and the transportation costs are sent to the businesses that do that. (rather than the bootleggers and dealers and hookers just upping their prices)

 

[mentalfloss]

It’s time to test a basic income

Recently I tabled a motion in the Senate calling on the government to create a pilot project that would test a basic income in Canada, also known as a guaranteed annual income. Canadians face immense challenges. Many families struggle to pay the rent; they can’t afford their children’s school supplies or school trips. Many rely on donations at the food bank just to feed their families.

In numbers, one in seven Canadians live in poverty. That’s over five million people — including over one million children. And there are an estimated 150,000 – 300,000 people homeless. Last year close to 900, 000 Canadians used food banks every month, with over one third of those children.

We also have increasing income and wealth inequality that is changing the core of our society. The Conference Board of Canada gave Canada a “C” grade for inequality, ranking us 12th out of 17 countries studied.

But why a basic income?

What we have done for far too long is simply not working. Even with all the social supports in place, the resulting income is often only enough to maintain a family in poverty. At their worst, existing policies and programs actually entrap people in poverty.

This is why we need a new way.

It’s time to test a basic income | National Newswatch

 

[petros]

People need to be like you flossy and manage their welfare payment. Right?

 

[mentalfloss]

Ontario budget 2016: How Kathleen Wynne is taking from the richer to give to the poorer - Toronto - CBC News

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I see three problems with your (their) basic income notion, mentalfloss.

1. The ratchet effect. Ink won't even be dry on the law before people like you start screaming the basic income number is too low, and needs to be $24,000, or $30,000, or whatever.

2. They will never, ever tear down the huge, complex, labyrinthine social welfare structure. They'll just add the basic income on top of that.

3. Giving money to people who can't handle money ain't much better'n just flushing it. And don't get all outraged, I ain't saying no poor people can handle money. I'm saying a lot of them can't.

 

[mentalfloss]

#1 and #3 can be dealt with in the short term.

I agree that #2 is significant and represents an existential problem to this idea.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

#1 and #3 can be dealt with in the short term.

How?

I agree that #2 is significant and represents an existential problem to this idea.

You'd need sweeping reform, all in the same package. Course, you'd be putting tens of thousands of social workers and bureaucrats on the basic income dole.

While we're at it, can we just call it the dole? Easier to type than "basic income."

 

[Dixie Cup]

The largest source of untapped capital in Canada is held by seniors.

Perhaps Trudeau will be taking aim at all of those fat cats in the senior population

You know, comments like that really "P" me off. How do you think those seniors got what they have? They bloody worked hard for it and were frugal with their money. They didn't spend it all on crap they didn't need!


My mom's best investment was her home. When she couldn't live in it anymore, she sold it and the funds she received SUPPLEMENTS her CPP and OAS because first of all, contrary to some beliefs, provincial health care DOES NOT pay for everything and private drug plans don't either, nor are they necessarily cheap.


Have you checked out living in a seniors home or nursing home recently? It's not cheap and believe me, CPP AND OAS do not cover those costs.


So to simply state that we need to "go after those seniors" is disingenuous but it doesn't surprise me at all. People who haven't got it are jealous of those who do because they weren't forward thinking enough to realize that they too some day will need assistance. But rather than prepare for it, these same people would rather rely on "governments" or "someone else" to pay for it. It makes me sick quite frankly.


For those truly in need, we must help them obviously. But for the rest who are too selfish or too lazy to look beyond the next pay cheque, I say tough tittie.


JMHO

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Wow!

 

[taxslave]

Ontario budget 2016: How Kathleen Wynne is taking from the richer to give to the poorer - Toronto - CBC News

Stealing from the productive members of society and giving to the freeloaders is a more accurate description. Of course tax credits tend to favor the middle class. They are the ones paying most of their income in taxes. Way to kill the economy.

You know, comments like that really "P" me off. How do you think those seniors got what they have? They bloody worked hard for it and were frugal with their money. They didn't spend it all on crap they didn't need!


My mom's best investment was her home. When she couldn't live in it anymore, she sold it and the funds she received SUPPLEMENTS her CPP and OAS because first of all, contrary to some beliefs, provincial health care DOES NOT pay for everything and private drug plans don't either, nor are they necessarily cheap.


Have you checked out living in a seniors home or nursing home recently? It's not cheap and believe me, CPP AND OAS do not cover those costs.


So to simply state that we need to "go after those seniors" is disingenuous but it doesn't surprise me at all. People who haven't got it are jealous of those who do because they weren't forward thinking enough to realize that they too some day will need assistance. But rather than prepare for it, these same people would rather rely on "governments" or "someone else" to pay for it. It makes me sick quite frankly.


For those truly in need, we must help them obviously. But for the rest who are too selfish or too lazy to look beyond the next pay cheque, I say tough tittie.


JMHO

The captain didn't say it is a smart move, only to expect trudOWE and his cronies to do just that. I'm betting he will go easy on the trust fund class though.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The captain didn't say it is a smart move, only to expect trudOWE and his cronies to do just that. I'm betting he will go easy on the trust fund class though.

Sarcasm is hard for some people. Which is why some here want it color-coded, and the brighter sparks refuse.

 

[Dixie Cup]

Stealing from the productive members of society and giving to the freeloaders is a more accurate description. Of course tax credits tend to favor the middle class. They are the ones paying most of their income in taxes. Way to kill the economy.



The captain didn't say it is a smart move, only to expect trudOWE and his cronies to do just that. I'm betting he will go easy on the trust fund class though.

To be clear, he didn't. However, just the idea floating out there ticks me off because sure as hell, someone will decide its a good idea! Hopefully Captain was being factious - just ticked me off tho'. (Sorry captain, didn't mean you were actually proposing such a thing) but there are those out there who would think its an excellent idea.


Dix

 

[petros]

What is the incentive to work?

 

[captain morgan]

You know, comments like that really "P" me off. How do you think those seniors got what they have? They bloody worked hard for it and were frugal with their money. They didn't spend it all on crap they didn't need!


My mom's best investment was her home. When she couldn't live in it anymore, she sold it and the funds she received SUPPLEMENTS her CPP and OAS because first of all, contrary to some beliefs, provincial health care DOES NOT pay for everything and private drug plans don't either, nor are they necessarily cheap.


Have you checked out living in a seniors home or nursing home recently? It's not cheap and believe me, CPP AND OAS do not cover those costs.


So to simply state that we need to "go after those seniors" is disingenuous but it doesn't surprise me at all. People who haven't got it are jealous of those who do because they weren't forward thinking enough to realize that they too some day will need assistance. But rather than prepare for it, these same people would rather rely on "governments" or "someone else" to pay for it. It makes me sick quite frankly.


For those truly in need, we must help them obviously. But for the rest who are too selfish or too lazy to look beyond the next pay cheque, I say tough tittie.


JMHO

The post to which you replied was specific to one contributor that maintains a position that some people make 'too much money'.

Trust me in that of all the people here, I am the guy that has the least problem with the word profit (in the context of the existing regulatory rules and tax scheme).

The message to that poster was that once gvt exhausts the option of gouging the wealthy via the tax system, the next target is the senior population, of which this poster is a member.

Fast-forward to France and their marginal tax rate on income over 1 million Euros (75%).... That action is entirely in line with the poster to whom I replied.... It's a great idea as far as theoretical socialism is concerned, right up to the point that those high income earners flee the jurisdiction (taking away all the tax contributions in addition to jobs)... So, what options does that leave for gvt to raise money?

Here's one accidental gvt error that may be the wave of the future

Federal government error may have shortchanged thousands of low-income seniors | Calgary Herald

Of course, this was an error - purely coincidental and an accident

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

What is the incentive to work?

Obviously, to make more than 18K a year.

 

[petros]

$18K is rent, full HD, internet, hydro, gasoline, vehicle insurance, groceries and an oz of weed.

What's the incentive?

000ps...and gadget phone with 5GB data

 

[JLM]

$18K is rent, full HD, internet, hydro, gasoline, vehicle insurance, groceries and an oz of weed.

What's the incentive?

000ps...and gadget phone with 5GB data

The plan is a dumb idea, Pete. There's enough layabouts around town now with their hands out, w/o encouraging more. I would be O.K. with a guaranteed income for those who three doctors can confirm are UNABLE to work.

 

[petros]

You would have to move to AB or SK where disabled people get over $18K a year. In BC disabled people get under $11K a year.

 

[JLM]

You would have to move to AB or SK where disabled people get over $18K a year. In BC disabled people get under $11K a year.

Yep, welfare is not kind to the needy here and I think it's a disgrace. Our finance minister keeps priding himself on a balanced budget (which anyone can accomplish if they starve enough people to death).

 

[petros]

And you have to live in a junkie infested BC housing complex. AB and SK let you live where you want and give a rent supplement so someone can live in dignity.

I've met a lot of people through BC/Yukon MS Society and heard their horror stories of trying to get by on $940 a month.