Canadian economy heading for recession

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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Then they would have more control because they wouldn't have to keep up with election promises.

Why does it all fall on Harper's head? He's one of many MPs, each with one equal vote, and even collectively limited in their power to control events beyond their jurisdiction. I'm not defending Harper here, but ultimately we are all responsible.

Don't make this personal about Harper. Recommend solutions of your own instead.

So what would you recommend?

I could recommend areas where the government could cut expenditure and redirect that funding towards trades and professional education for the unemployed, underemployed and underpaid.

It could also promote common labour agreements (some unemployed might have skills that are in demand abroad). It could negotiate common education standards for various trades and professions with ministries of education at home and abroad so as to make one's hard-earned qualifications more widely recognized and so make workers more mobile.

Hate Harper all you want, but make constructive recommendations instead of just blaming him for everything.
 

grainfedpraiboy

Electoral Member
Mar 15, 2009
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Yay war and a ****ty economy!

Thanks Harper.



Then they would have more control because they wouldn't have to keep up with election promises.

You blame Harper specifically for a slow economy which is wrong. You know very little about the economy or how it works and your posts/selective cut and paste kinda proves it.

You also generally blame Harper for everything and anything negative you think you can make a link to. Mudslinging is what they call it and it's hard to take you seriously because of it. The Conservative party approach to the economy is far better than anything the Liberals or NDP have to offer and I have seen no serious articles or editorials in any MSM paper to counter that statement. Both those parties have placed themselves squarely as the representative of the Takers to the Conservatives Makers.

National security, taxation, foreign affairs, military and crime are other issues that both the Liberals and the NDP are out of touch with and the Conservatives are more connected to the majority opinion of Canadians. The Conservatives however are failing with their approach to the environment, Senate and electoral reform, their downgrading of the NRC and the trumped up powers and secrecy of the PMO.

I suspect if the Conservatives lose this election it will have far more to do with voter apathy and a desire for change than a concerted focus to find a better manager of the economy.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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My post about government control was not only about Harper.

Whoever wins would have more control if less people vote.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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It doesn't matter now.

The fact that we are even flirting with a recession is enough to prove the instability of the economy that this government set up for us.

They are supposed to be the money party and they failed at the money job.

Sorry, I meant to quote this.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Sorry, I meant to quote this.

To be fair, they have been the most aggressive government in restructuring our economy.

The primary reason for the decline in GDP is the drop in oil prices and while the main cause of that drop is external, our economy has relied on oil more than before Harper took office.

We could have a booming economy if oil goes up, but Canadians would rather have a moderate, stable economy.
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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I'm sorry, everyone, but the most condescending and insulting comment a Canadian can make is in phrases starting with "Canadians want..." It implies that anyone who disagrees with it is not a true Canadian. "Canadians want... to rebuild/eliminate the long gun registry." "Canadians want/don't want a focus on crime and terrorism." "Canadians want/don't want to focus on the economy, environment, etc."

Such comments are fundamentally condescending and insulting to those who disagree with the comment. To accuse a Canadian, even by implication, of not being a real Canadian lacks patriotism even. It implies that I am the judge and jury of who is or isn't a true Canadian based on whether I like his ideas or not.

Certainly a true Canadian would not insult his compatriots thus.
 

pgs

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Nov 29, 2008
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Canada is already in a recession, says Bank of America, and the loonie is set to get hammered

Bank of America Merrill Lynch has become the first bank to call for a Canadian recession this year.

Economist Emanuella Enenajor and her team now say that Canada’s economy will shrink by 0.6 per cent in the second quarter, following a 0.6 per cent contraction in the first. The definition of a recession is two consecutive quarters of contraction.

A recession sets up the Bank of Canada for another rate cut this year, said Enenajor, and she expects that the downturn will hammer the Canadian dollar — knocking it down to 70 cents U.S. by the end of the year, the lowest level in more than a decade.

“The economy has surprised to the downside this year, and appears to have entered a recession in 1H 2015, even after policy easing in January,” she said in a note to clients.

Economists have been making a lot of bearish calls on the Canadian economy recently, following data showing that gross domestic product has shrunk for four-straight months — the first time that has happened since the 2008-09 recession.

The Bank of Canada’s rate announcement will be on July 15, and many economists have changed their forecasts to call for another 0.25 per cent cut to be announced then. Others have said the bank will wait till later this year, given the criticism it faced following a surprise cut from 1 per cent to 0.75 per cent in January.

In a closed-door speech over the weekend, bank governor Stephen Poloz compared that rate cut to life saving surgery, saying it was necessary to protect Canada from the damage done by a collapse in oil prices earlier this year. He compared any negative effects lower rates would have on household debt, already near a record level in Canada, to post-surgery side effects.

Enenajor said a rate cut to 0.50 per cent this year, combined with a recession, will have the biggest impact on Canada’s dollar. The loonie has already fallen 8 per cent year-to-date against the greenback.

“A BoC cut in October, lower oil prices in Q3 and underpriced risks of a September Fed hike are all positive USD/CAD,” she said. “We see USD/CAD rising to 1.30 in early 2016, and upside risks in 2015 given price action and the BoC’s explicit mention of C$ in May.”

Canada is already in a recession, says Bank of America, and the loonie is set to get hammered
Yea . Sucks to live in Ontario eh . Blame Bush , or Harper I mean .

There's f/a we can do about it now because we bet the farm on oil so now we can just ride the roller-coaster.
Really , nothing about the engine of Canada Betting the farm on alternative energy .

No worries. We can print our way out of recession, or even depression. It's always succeeded in delaying a crash. Yeah, it exacerbates it too, but at least it delays it!
We can borrow our way out of it too. Another cheery delaying tactic.
Welcome to Greece >

Well, W.W. 2 brought the hungry 30s to an abrupt end.



They don't anyway.
If you lived in Europe the hungry 30's were replaced by the starving 40's .

To be fair, they have been the most aggressive government in restructuring our economy.

The primary reason for the decline in GDP is the drop in oil prices and while the main cause of that drop is external, our economy has relied on oil more than before Harper took office.

We could have a booming economy if oil goes up, but Canadians would rather have a moderate, stable economy.
Sure as Ontario's Manufacturing base leaves Western Canada's resource extraction becomes more valuable .
But don't forget for 1 second that the head office of that resource development is mostly still in Toronto .


For now .

I'm talking about most Canadians.

Even those that vote for Harper.

The Conservatives’ economic stability message becoming a myth: Tim Harper
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news...ility_message_becoming_a_myth_tim_harper.html
Most Canadian's ? 60 % of eligible voters bother to cast a vote . 40 % votes for 1 party and 30 % for 2 others .
40 % gets majority and forums majority government .Who represents most Canadians ?
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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It's amazing that none of the leaders are making literacy a major campaign issue. According to Statistics Canada 2011, around 50% (and 60% on reserves) of Canadians over 16 are functionally literate in neither official language. How does this class of Canadians find well-paid employment? It would seem that unless you fix the fundamentals, things like a fitness tax credit are all fluff.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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It's amazing that none of the leaders are making literacy a major campaign issue. According to Statistics Canada 2011, around 50% (and 60% on reserves) of Canadians over 16 are functionally literate in neither official language. How does this class of Canadians find well-paid employment? It would seem that unless you fix the fundamentals, things like a fitness tax credit are all fluff.

What does "functionally literate" mean? I think it's just a 'red herring'. I know to qualify for many jobs requires the applicant has completed Grade 12. W.T.F. would an equipment operator have to have grade 12? Does a guy have to be functionally literate to decipher the user's manual. Instead of having to have grade 12 I think a much better qualification would be "ability to perform the job in a professional manner". If you want to judge functionally literate, I would guess 50% of high school graduates wouldn't qualify these days. Back in the day our reading and writing skills in grade 8 would surpass those of graduates today.

But hey I do agree that standards for graduating students should be increased drastically. Teachers want more and more for doing less and less.

Another brilliant idea. It does create poverty... but jobs for everyone.

In Canada at least W.W. 2 bridged the gap between poverty and prosperity, although several items were severely rationed.........vehicle tires for one.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Canadian economy observers brace for weak jobs numbers, call for rate cut - The Globe and Mail
Home - The Globe and Mail

The Canadian jobs picture has looked like a roller-coaster ride of late – one month up, one month down. After an unexpectedly strong up month in May, economists are bracing for a flat or down report for June from Statistics Canada this Friday. Will the report be accompanied by screams? If so, they will likely be even louder calls for another interest rate cut by the Bank of Canada this month.

After Statistics Canada reported that the Canadian economy added nearly 59,000 jobs in May – one of the strongest showing in recent years – economists are calling for a drain of as many as 20,000 jobs in June, and a slight increase in the unemployment rate, to 6.9 per cent from 6.8 in May. “Given the volatility, it will be a weak number,” said Benjamin Tal, deputy chief economist with CIBC World Markets Inc. “Something close to zero or even negative 10,000. … I really don’t think we can retain this strong rate of employment” from the previous month.

The reason is that last month’s jobs figure was out of step with broader trends, namely overall economic performance: The monthly gross domestic product has been down each of the past four months and five of the past six, including a disappointing 0.1-per-cent decline in April (the most recently released figures, out last week) and downward revisions to earlier monthly figures from 2015.

Given the economic impact of forest fires in Alberta in May and the unlikelihood of a robust rebound across the country that month and June, “a technical recession” – as in, two successive quarters of declining output – “is a real possibility,” Mr. Tal said in a note to clients Friday. Maybe technical, but not “a sustained, broad-based decline in economic activity,” Douglas Porter, chief economist with Bank of Montreal, told his clients Friday. “Canada simply doesn’t meet [the] test” of being in a recession, he said, given that auto and home sales are booming, home building is robust and the bad news is concentrated in resources and the two provinces most heavily weighted to that sector, Alberta and Saskatchewan.

Meanwhile, the jobs figures have risen in six of the past 12 months and fallen the other six, including a back-and-forth pattern for the past six. “Its been all over the map,” Mr. Porter said. “It suggests to me we shouldn’t totally trust the month-to-month moves,” which suggests “the economy is struggling to grow on a consistent basis.”

Indeed, 12-month comparisons show more consistency: Employment in Canada over the one year through May increased by 192,000 jobs, or 1.1 per cent; Canadian GDP from April, 2014, to April, 2015, rose by 1.2 per cent. Growth around 1 per cent is hardly inspiring – it’s one of the weakest performances by the Canadian economy outside of recession periods we’ve seen, Mr. Porter said in an interview.

The picture south of the border is different: The U.S. continues to chug along, creating more than 200,000 jobs in May, while consumer confidence, home and auto sales are looking rosy. GDP growth for the year is expected to range at a steady clip of between 2.5 per cent and 3 per cent, IHS chief economist Nariman Behravesh said this week. Wage growth is lagging and the rate of people working is at its lowest level in nearly 40 years, but the overall picture is robust enough that most economists continue to expect the U.S. Federal Reserve to start boosting interest rates this fall.

Not so in Canada. The jobs announcement this Friday is the last piece of data during a busy week that will produce most of the remaining puzzle pieces that the Bank of Canada Governor will need in place before deciding what to do with interest rates in mid-July. Monday will see the release of the Bank of Canada’s key Business Outlook Survey and Senior Loan Officer Survey, which will offer the latest views on borrowing, investing and hiring intentions by the private sector; the latest data on building permits, housing starts and the merchandise trade balance during the week will fill out the picture.

Economists are now expecting two things from the Bank of Canada: That it will ratchet down its call from April for 1.9-per-cent growth in GDP for the year – a figure that Capital Economics said last week “now looks utterly unrealistic” – and that it will cut interest rates, likely by one-quarter of a percentage point. With oil and other commodities prices still in a slump, uncertainty in Europe over the Greece situation, growing concerns about China and muted consumer spending in Canada clouding the picture, “we don’t have too many engines working toward job creation,” Mr. Tal said.

Canadian economy observers brace for weak jobs numbers, call for rate cut - The Globe and Mail
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Douglas Porter, chief economist with Bank of Montreal, told his clients Friday. “Canada simply doesn’t meet [the] test” of being in a recession, he said, given that auto and home sales are booming, home building is robust and the bad news is concentrated in resources and the two provinces most heavily weighted to that sector, Alberta and Saskatchewan
And yet we are still doing just fine.

Quick Facts
Population estimate (April 1, 2015)
1,134,402
Consumer Price Index change (May 2015/May 2014)
1.5%
Unemployment rate (May 2015)
5.3%
Gross Domestic Product, Chained Fisher Dollars (2012 percent change - December 2013 Release)
2.0%
What's New
Labour Force Survey 06/05/2015
The Saskatchewan unemployment rate for May 2015 was 5.3 percent. This is 0.5 percentage points higher than April 2015 and 1.3 percentage points higher than the May 2014 level of 4.0 percent.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Energy subsidies are measures that keep prices for consumers below market levels or for producers above market levels, or reduce costs for consumers and producers. Energy subsidies may be direct cash transfers to producers, consumers, or related bodies, as well as indirect support mechanisms, such as tax exemptions and rebates, price controls, trade restrictions, and limits on market access. They may also include energy conservation subsidies.

The development of today's major modern energy industries have all relied on substantial subsidy support.

Fossil fuel subsidies reached $90 billion in the OECD and over $500 billion globally in 2011.[1] Renewable energy subsidies reached $88 billion in 2011.[2] According to Fatih Birol, Chief Economist at the International Energy Agency without a phasing out of fossil fuel subsidies, we will not reach our climate targets.[3] The IMF estimates that for 2015 the economic cost of energy subsidies worldwide will amount to US$5.3 trillion, or US$10 million every minute.[4] This is not to be confused with actual amount of subsidies which are projected to amount to around US$333 billion for 2015. [5] This would be a decrease from 2014 which reflects the slump in oil prices rather than policy changes.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

Then clearly we do not subsidize the oil companies or we would not be paying near as much as we are for gas and diesel.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
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Vernon, B.C.
"“Canada simply doesn’t meet [the] test” of being in a recession, he said, given that auto and home sales are booming"

That only tells half the story, the important half is whose money is this stuff being purchased with? The consumers' money or the bank's money? Anyone with a half decent credit rating can buy anything they like. One of these days interest rates are going to soar and then sh*t will hit the fan!

And yet we are still doing just fine.

Quick Facts
Population estimate (April 1, 2015)
1,134,402
Consumer Price Index change (May 2015/May 2014)
1.5%
Unemployment rate (May 2015)
5.3%
Gross Domestic Product, Chained Fisher Dollars (2012 percent change - December 2013 Release)
2.0%
What's New
Labour Force Survey 06/05/2015
The Saskatchewan unemployment rate for May 2015 was 5.3 percent. This is 0.5 percentage points higher than April 2015 and 1.3 percentage points higher than the May 2014 level of 4.0 percent.

What will happen when the bills come in for all those fires you guys are fighting?