Women Use #DressCodePM To Ridicule Prime Minister's Anti-Niqab Comments

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Why would it be easy if it's not religious? It's not up to an individual as to what is and what isn't Religious. In the case it's cultural and not Religious.

There exist people with different views on whether the niqab is a religious garment.

At this time, if they make such a case for their upcoming ceremony of citizenship and the judge recognizes a religious nexus, they can proceed with taking the oath while wearing that garment on religious grounds.

This is irrespective of popular opinion.

This is subject to change if Harper can reinstate the previous niqab ban that was in place before it was overturned.
 
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petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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10 Muzzie women are being sworn in. 9 of the 10 peal off their niqab saying " no problem, its not a religious thing" while one claims it is and refuses to take it off.

Who is correct?
 

Mowich

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Canadians oppose niqab during citizenship ceremony, poll suggests

Canadians oppose niqab during citizenship ceremony, poll suggests | Toronto Star

I was talking about this with a friend of mine today Loc and both of us agree that it is about time for Canadians to stop bending over backwards to appease people wishing to come to our country. We are in agreement on not letting anyone cover their features while taking the oath. Nor do we support the idea of hiding one's face on their driver's license or in a polling booth.
 

pgs

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I was talking about this with a friend of mine today Loc and both of us agree that it is about time for Canadians to stop bending over backwards to appease people wishing to come to our country. We are in agreement on not letting anyone cover their features while taking the oath. Nor do we support the idea of hiding one's face on their driver's license or in a polling booth.
Or practically anywhere else for that matter .
The middle of winter outside sure .
 

Locutus

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Jun 18, 2007
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I was talking about this with a friend of mine today Loc and both of us agree that it is about time for Canadians to stop bending over backwards to appease people wishing to come to our country. We are in agreement on not letting anyone cover their features while taking the oath. Nor do we support the idea of hiding one's face on their driver's license or in a polling booth.

Nobody has shown me any numbers so it's speculation as to how many women in Canada wear a niqab. How many of those immigrated here and how many took it off and how many made 'fuss'.

Doesn't really matter though as I'm quite sure it's a teeny tiny little number.

This is more of a troll by busy-bodies and social experiment do-gooders...the kind that are your and mine moral and intellectual superior eh.

Anyway, to improve their visibility, notoriety, sales, their community organizing CV or even, excuse me, their social metric, they decide to get involved on behalf *cough* of the poor and down trodden minorities coming up against a nazi government. yeah.

anyway, busybody's. real world trolls. that be all.

in the end they will walk away scuffing their toes and muttering under their breath how bad steve is and such.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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To get into Canada you need a passport. These women had no issues whipping off their rag to get a passport photo. Did they bitch and fight to not have do so to get that passport photo to get into Canada? I highly doubt it.
 

Mowich

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Dec 25, 2005
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Totally agree with you both. I keep wondering how much of this is simply a product of our increasing narcissistic society wherein everyone needs to be or feels they are - entitled.
 

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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Then you should not voted for Harper because religious freedom was one of the main pillars of his platform.



Two separate laws that conflict with each other and one supersedes the other.

I would not expect we would allow someone to bring in an AK-47 to the swearing in ceremony even if they claimed it was a religious item.

Yet you permit Sikhs to carry a concealed dagger.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
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This is more of a troll by busy-bodies and social experiment do-gooders...the kind that are your and mine moral and intellectual superior eh.

And politicians. Don't forget about them. They love to keep people talking about the things that affect very, very few people because that keeps everybody from demanding answers on the economy, or hydro, or whatever, whatever.

Politicians are the ultimate trolls you know.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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You're tripping over your talking points and resorting to ad hominem like Sal did earlier.


Under the Québec Charter and Canadian Charter, the expression “freedom of religion” has been construed in a broad sense. Indeed, Canadian courts have often held that a belief or practice does not need to be rooted in an official religious dogma in order to be protected; rather, as long as the person who entertains such a belief or practice is sincere and undertaking it in order to communicate with a divine entity or as a function of his spiritual faith, they are protected.[1] In other words, even if a religious practice is not a compulsory practice within its religion, its link to a religion and the subjective belief of the person are sufficient to be granted protection under both charters.[2]

Religious and other personal beliefs – what protection is granted to employees in Québec against discrimination? | Global Workplace Insider

The best part about this whole thing is that Harper created the office of religious freedom to uphold this very principle.

Now he looks like he is severely contradicting himself.


As I have already pointed out, she has made it quite clear that she does not consider the niqab and her reasoning for wanting to wear it to be religious. So you quoting the above is a red herring.
 

Locutus

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Lorrie Goldstein ‏@sunlorrie 45m45 minutes ago Here's my Thursday Sun Media column: More reasonable than racist

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/18/more-reasonable-than-racist?token=8f9fabe7a7baee6133ffb21622251449 …

#cdnpoli


More reasonable than racist


Permit me today to make a modest proposal.

That is most of the 67% of Canadians surveyed in a recent Forum poll who believe niqab-wearing women should reveal their faces while taking the oath of citizenship, are not racists.

Certainly some of them are racists and are using their opposition to the niqab as a false flag for the fact that when all is said and done, they just hate Muslims.

But no more, I suspect, than are today condemning the surprise re-election of Likud Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel as a false flag for the fact that when all is said and done, they just hate Jews.

I would argue the main reason why more than two-thirds of 1,320 Canadian adults surveyed last Friday and Saturday oppose the wearing of the niqab at citizenship ceremonies, compared to only 22% in favour and 10% undecided, has nothing to do with what Liberal leader Justin Trudeau is suggesting it has to do with.

That is, as Trudeau said of Prime Minister Stephen Harper, that his attitude towards Muslims reflects the views of the (Liberal) government of William Lyon Mackenzie King in the lead-up to the Second World War, that when it came to Jewish immigration, “none is too many.”

Nor are they falling for Harper’s alleged fear-mongering and button-pushing about Islam, or his so-called male arrogance in “telling a woman what to wear."

Ditto that anyone who shares the views of more than two-thirds of Canadians must therefore also agree with Conservative MP Larry Miller that any Muslim woman who insists on wearing the niqab while taking the citizenship oath should, “stay the hell where you came from.”

Rather, the main reason most Canadians feel the way they do on this issue is that they are reflecting the values of a modern, secular democracy in which they have been taught by many of the same people now condemning them to be intolerant of intolerance.

Surely it is reasonable to see the niqab (and burka) as symbols of the oppression of women, given that any country where many women wear them – take a tour through the Arab and Muslim countries of the Mideast –- has little respect for the rights of women.

The Qur’an, as moderate and progressive Muslims like Toronto Sun columnists Tarek Fatah and Farzana Hassan remind us, does not require women to wear niqabs or burkas, only that women (and men) dress modestly in public.

In fact, the niqab is a cultural dress, not mandatory religious attire.

Men in the countries described above, while also instructed by the Qur’an to dress modestly, certainly do not walk around in what amount to canvas tents, covered from head to toe, as a sign of their obedience to Allah.

This lest the exposure of even a man’s ankle drive a woman into an uncontrollable sexual frenzy, for which the man will then be blamed for dressing promiscuously.

Nor are men in the countries referred to above required to be in the company of a female relative while they go about their daily lives, less they risk being assaulted, even raped, by gangs of roving female thugs for their immorality.

Our secular democracy also values the concepts of openness and transparency, including such principles as one having the right to face one’s accusers and to observe their facial expressions and general demeanour, not only on the witness stand, but when interacting with others both in business and socially.

Finally, the glib allegation Harper is “telling women what to wear” is a trivialization of the serious issue that in many cases (not all) a woman wearing a niqab is doing so precisely because she has been ordered to do so by her husband, father or other male relatives.

The unfortunate thing about how the controversy of the niqab is playing out is that, as often occurs in our country, many politicians, pundits, academics and the intelligentsia are out of step with the public’s reasonable and complex views.

And so they make absurd claims, such as the argument Canadians don’t understand the issue, or resort to mockery, suggesting anyone who disagrees with them is a Neanderthal and a racist.

That, of course, is the logic of those arrogant souls we all know who constantly crave to put others in their place, the very thing, ironically, they accuse Harper of doing.


More reasonable than racist | GOLDSTEIN | Columnists | Opinion | Toronto Sun




Iranian women protesting niqab in 1970's
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
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Lorrie Goldstein ‏@sunlorrie 45m45 minutes ago Here's my Thursday Sun Media column: More reasonable than racist

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/18/more-reasonable-than-racist?token=8f9fabe7a7baee6133ffb21622251449 …

#cdnpoli


More reasonable than racist


Permit me today to make a modest proposal.

That is most of the 67% of Canadians surveyed in a recent Forum poll who believe niqab-wearing women should reveal their faces while taking the oath of citizenship, are not racists.

Certainly some of them are racists and are using their opposition to the niqab as a false flag for the fact that when all is said and done, they just hate Muslims.

But no more, I suspect, than are today condemning the surprise re-election of Likud Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel as a false flag for the fact that when all is said and done, they just hate Jews.

I would argue the main reason why more than two-thirds of 1,320 Canadian adults surveyed last Friday and Saturday oppose the wearing of the niqab at citizenship ceremonies, compared to only 22% in favour and 10% undecided, has nothing to do with what Liberal leader Justin Trudeau is suggesting it has to do with.

That is, as Trudeau said of Prime Minister Stephen Harper, that his attitude towards Muslims reflects the views of the (Liberal) government of William Lyon Mackenzie King in the lead-up to the Second World War, that when it came to Jewish immigration, “none is too many.”

Nor are they falling for Harper’s alleged fear-mongering and button-pushing about Islam, or his so-called male arrogance in “telling a woman what to wear."

Ditto that anyone who shares the views of more than two-thirds of Canadians must therefore also agree with Conservative MP Larry Miller that any Muslim woman who insists on wearing the niqab while taking the citizenship oath should, “stay the hell where you came from.”

Rather, the main reason most Canadians feel the way they do on this issue is that they are reflecting the values of a modern, secular democracy in which they have been taught by many of the same people now condemning them to be intolerant of intolerance.

Surely it is reasonable to see the niqab (and burka) as symbols of the oppression of women, given that any country where many women wear them – take a tour through the Arab and Muslim countries of the Mideast –- has little respect for the rights of women.

The Qur’an, as moderate and progressive Muslims like Toronto Sun columnists Tarek Fatah and Farzana Hassan remind us, does not require women to wear niqabs or burkas, only that women (and men) dress modestly in public.

In fact, the niqab is a cultural dress, not mandatory religious attire.

Men in the countries described above, while also instructed by the Qur’an to dress modestly, certainly do not walk around in what amount to canvas tents, covered from head to toe, as a sign of their obedience to Allah.

This lest the exposure of even a man’s ankle drive a woman into an uncontrollable sexual frenzy, for which the man will then be blamed for dressing promiscuously.

Nor are men in the countries referred to above required to be in the company of a female relative while they go about their daily lives, less they risk being assaulted, even raped, by gangs of roving female thugs for their immorality.

Our secular democracy also values the concepts of openness and transparency, including such principles as one having the right to face one’s accusers and to observe their facial expressions and general demeanour, not only on the witness stand, but when interacting with others both in business and socially.

Finally, the glib allegation Harper is “telling women what to wear” is a trivialization of the serious issue that in many cases (not all) a woman wearing a niqab is doing so precisely because she has been ordered to do so by her husband, father or other male relatives.

The unfortunate thing about how the controversy of the niqab is playing out is that, as often occurs in our country, many politicians, pundits, academics and the intelligentsia are out of step with the public’s reasonable and complex views.

And so they make absurd claims, such as the argument Canadians don’t understand the issue, or resort to mockery, suggesting anyone who disagrees with them is a Neanderthal and a racist.

That, of course, is the logic of those arrogant souls we all know who constantly crave to put others in their place, the very thing, ironically, they accuse Harper of doing.


More reasonable than racist | GOLDSTEIN | Columnists | Opinion | Toronto Sun




Iranian women protesting niqab in 1970's
:wav:

excellent post
 

gore0bsessed

Time Out
Oct 23, 2011
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I see a lot of fat muricans crying about Muslims. An argument I see a lot, or more like ranting with no coherent structure to an actual point, is about the immortality of Sharia law, crying about women's rights under Islam and **** (usually by stupid inbred hillbillies that don't care about women's rights lol). It's interesting because in stupid fat *** Murica they put children and mentally retarded people on death row.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_juvenile_offenders_executed_in_the_United_States_since_1976
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/04/opinion/mentally-retarded-and-on-death-row.html?_r=0

They lock away NON-VIOLENT drug offenders into high security prisons with violent criminal rapists
U.S. 'Supermax' Prisons Incite Human Rights Outcry - latimes

Their entire economy is basically exporting death, directly or indirectly. Worldwide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military–industrial_complex

Not to mention that those same extremist views have basically been protected as well as fostered by Murica - their alliance with the extremist WAHHABIST Saudi Arabia while committing terrorism in other regions of the middle east.

Shove that false sense of moral superiority up your lard asses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og5T-3Q8mDs#
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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I see a lot of fat muricans crying about Muslims. An argument I see a lot, or more like ranting with no coherent structure to an actual point, is about the immortality of Sharia law, crying about women's rights under Islam and **** (usually by stupid inbred hillbillies that don't care about women's rights lol). It's interesting because in stupid fat *** Murica they put children and mentally retarded people on death row.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_juvenile_offenders_executed_in_the_United_States_since_1976
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/04/opinion/mentally-retarded-and-on-death-row.html?_r=0

They lock away NON-VIOLENT drug offenders into high security prisons with violent criminal rapists
U.S. 'Supermax' Prisons Incite Human Rights Outcry - latimes

Their entire economy is basically exporting death, directly or indirectly. Worldwide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military–industrial_complex

Not to mention that those same extremist views have basically been protected as well as fostered by Murica - their alliance with the extremist WAHHABIST Saudi Arabia while committing terrorism in other regions of the middle east.

Shove that false sense of moral superiority up your lard asses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og5T-3Q8mDs#

You really are a loathesome moron.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
I see a lot of fat muricans crying about Muslims. An argument I see a lot, or more like ranting with no coherent structure to an actual point, is about the immortality of Sharia law, crying about women's rights under Islam and **** (usually by stupid inbred hillbillies that don't care about women's rights lol). It's interesting because in stupid fat *** Murica they put children and mentally retarded people on death row.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_juvenile_offenders_executed_in_the_United_States_since_1976
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/04/opinion/mentally-retarded-and-on-death-row.html?_r=0

They lock away NON-VIOLENT drug offenders into high security prisons with violent criminal rapists
U.S. 'Supermax' Prisons Incite Human Rights Outcry - latimes

Their entire economy is basically exporting death, directly or indirectly. Worldwide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military–industrial_complex

Not to mention that those same extremist views have basically been protected as well as fostered by Murica - their alliance with the extremist WAHHABIST Saudi Arabia while committing terrorism in other regions of the middle east.

Shove that false sense of moral superiority up your lard asses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og5T-3Q8mDs#


I know you have a problem with reality, so I will help you out with the reality of this thread. This thread is about the niqab being worn during the CANADIAN citizenship oath. Has nothing to do with your "muricans". DO try to keep your very predictable hatred to the proper threads.