How the GW myth is perpetuated

waldo

House Member
Oct 19, 2009
3,042
0
36
I'm impressed by the tedious repetition. Steroids I rekon.

beav, beav... as I recall the only graphs I've repeated relate to long-term trends for Arctic sea-ice melting, extent & volume..... and also the same graph in regards the so-called "pause". In both cases, they're repeated in response... to the repeat claims made by serial dis-informers here. Hey beav, how come you (and the other whiners) are highlighting my repeats but you guys choose to openly accept the repeat disinformation. C'mon beav, what's up with that? :mrgreen:

The believers deny the mere existence of a pause.

no - realists recognize there is no "pause" in global warming... however, there is a reduced rate of surface warming as compared to prior decades. Again, your claimed "pause" is one where you isolate surface temperature to exclude ocean warming/ocean heat content; it's also, typically, a condition typically attached to cherry-picked end points of a surface temperature trend period. As before, this following graph provides you a visual presentation of the "NON-pause" in surface temperature warming.

taxi, if you can actually rise above your OneLiner routine, don't hesitate to make your case for the so-called "pause" in global warming.




Says the guy that has added nothing new for the last 2 months.

taxi, what "new" subject related information have you added... evah?

I' m not here to teach you.

no - I'm certainly not looking for a "teaching moment' from you. What I'm asking you for, what you're refusing to provide, is a point of discussion reference. At the broadest levels, what significance do you presume to bring to your latest shifting focus? Again:
here's a thought: instead of your perpetual dance and outright avoidance in being clear, descriptive and complete... what general frame of reference (not detailed, just general) are you presuming to want to make with you shifting to yet another diversion; your reference to, as you say, "EUV, particle precipitation and Joule heating of O2 and O3 in the atmosphere". Just your generalized frame of reference in wanting to discuss these latest items from your grab-bag? What is it?

that boy is unteachable.

says a fevered proponent of serial misinformer Steve Goddard'!
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
113,363
12,825
113
Low Earth Orbit
Hey now! Enough graphs already. Start on post #1 and go through this entire thread, then look for new stuff we've never seen shilled before,
 

waldo

House Member
Oct 19, 2009
3,042
0
36
Hey now! Enough graphs already. Start on post #1 and go through this entire thread, then look for new stuff we've never seen shilled before,

no - my posts have simply been in response to what's presented. Again, if you're claiming I'm repeating, then the original posts to which I'm replying are... also repeating. If you're all about "new stuff", please take it up with the members who are initiating posts I'm simply replying to. You guys sure have a skewed sense of what you want talked about and how you want it talked about in your lil' clubhouse! Why so, hey?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
113,363
12,825
113
Low Earth Orbit
no - my posts have simply been in response to what's presented. Again, if you're claiming I'm repeating, then the original posts to which I'm replying are... also repeating. If you're all about "new stuff", please take it up with the members who are initiating posts I'm simply replying to. You guys sure have a skewed sense of what you want talked about and how you want it talked about in your lil' clubhouse! Why so, hey?

Hey now. If you want to discuss. Discuss. If that requires you growing up, do it. Being a snot nose goof kid won't get you any respect.

But they have pretty graphs and pie charts

 

waldo

House Member
Oct 19, 2009
3,042
0
36
Hey now. If you want to discuss. Discuss. If that requires you growing up, do it. Being a snot nose goof kid won't get you any respect.

why are you so hesitant to simply provide a frame of reference as to why you want to discuss these latest items you're speaking to; specifically, "EUV, particle precipitation and Joule heating of O2 and O3 in the atmosphere". To what end? You clearly think they're relevant... to something! But what? Again, at the broadest of levels, what summation point(s) do you presume to make by wanting to engage in a discussion of these respective points? I expect you could rattle this request off in a few sentences... if you were inclined... presuming you actually had a reason to want to discuss them. You do have a reason, right?

interesting that making a most benign request of you is met with such resistance... to the point of deflecting the request with 'growing up and snot nose good kid" insults! Methinks, thou doth protest tooooooooooo much! Just answer the simple request, yes?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
113,363
12,825
113
Low Earth Orbit
Hey now. It's just part of the physics of the atmosphere and a hefty chunk of the heat budget. What's not to discuss? As I said before. I'm not here to teach you. You and only you can go fetch and learn. It's not my responsibility.
 

waldo

House Member
Oct 19, 2009
3,042
0
36
Hey now. It's just part of the physics of the atmosphere and a hefty chunk of the heat budget.

yabut... how does this fit within yet another of your pet alternate theories on warming... err... cooling... err... pause... err... oh wait... just where are you at again?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
113,363
12,825
113
Low Earth Orbit
Yabuts run in the forest.

I guess the big picture is just too big for you son.

What doesn't the physics of the atmosphere have to do with the temperature of the atmosphere?
 

waldo

House Member
Oct 19, 2009
3,042
0
36
I guess the big picture is just too big for you son.

What doesn't the physics of the atmosphere have to do with the temperature of the atmosphere?

what is your... big picture... at least today/this week? Just what are you presuming to suggest about the temperature of the atmosphere and whatever relationship you presume to draw from that in regards to earth's surface temperature? More pointedly, what particular atmospheric layer(s) are you directly speaking to, the temp transfer between your focused layers and, again, what summation you presume to draw as to affecting earth's surface temperature. Lay it out 'BigPictureGuy'!
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
http://www.principia-scientific.org/vol ... oxide.html

5.0 Plimer Strikes Again: 139,000 Intraplate Volcanoes Leaking CO2 into the Ocean


Until reading Hillier & Watts (2007), I would have estimated that the oceans, occupying twice the surface area of land, would have twice the number of volcanoes. In fact the number of submarine volcanoes is very much higher than twice the number of subaerial volcanoes. Given the update of Werner & Brantley (2003), which raises the estimate of subaerial volcanogenic CO2 from 27±3 MtCpa to 78±6 MtCpa, this would seem to imply roughly 200 MtCpa from submarine volcanogenic CO2 and brings the total estimate of volcanic CO2 in line with the bare minimum determined by Morner & Etiope (2002). Plimer (2001; 2009) & Wishart (2009) maintain that the amount of CO2 from volcanoes is enormous, and without estimating an amount suggests that it dwarfs anthropogenic contributions. If we take the updated estimate, correct the conservative bias, and extend to submarine environments we still wind up with a figure around 1.5 GtCpa for total passive volcanic emissions (excluding imponderables such as mid oceanic ridge emissions) and that is still only 20% of the 7.8 GtCpa attributed to anthropogenic CO2 emissions by the IPCC. As it turns out, there is a lot more to the distribution of volcanoes across different tectonic settings, and Plimer (2009) omits the rather small detail of a 2007 paper presenting primary evidence that underpins his claim in spectacular fashion.

Hillier & Watts (2007) surveyed 201,055 submarine volcanoes estimating that a total of 3,477,403 submarine volcanoes exist worldwide. According to the observations of Batiza (1982), we may infer that at least 4% of seamounts are active volcanoes. We can expect a higher percentage in the case of the count taken by Hillier & Watts (2007) because it includes smaller, younger seamounts; a higher proportion of which will be active. Nevertheless, in the spirit of caution and based on our minimum inference of 4% seamount activity from Batiza's observations, I estimate 139,096 active submarine volcanoes worldwide. If we are to assume, in the absence of other emission figures for mid oceanic plate volcanoes, that Kilauea is a typical mid oceanic plate volcano with a typical mid oceanic emission of 870 KtCpa (Kerrick, 2001), then we might estimate a total submarine volcanogenic CO2 output of 121 GtCpa. Even if we assume, as Kerrick (2001) and Gerlach (1991) did, that we've only noticed the most significant outgassing and curb our estimate accordingly, we still have 24.2 GtCpa of submarine volcanic origin.

If guesses of this order are anywhere near the ballpark, then we can take it that either what has been absorbing all this extra CO2 is not absorbing as much or there has been some variation to volcanic output over the past 500 years or so. Both are normal assumptions given the variable state of the natural environment, and considering that vegetation consumed something on the order of 38GtCpa more in 1850 than today (see my Deforestation article for the quick and dirty calculation), it is hardly surprising that we were missing a large natural CO2source in the carbon budget. The other possibility is that both Werner et al (2000: approx. 38 KtCpa) and Werner & Brantley (2003: approx. 4000 KtCpa) are correct, which could imply that volcanogenic CO2 emissions are increasing. This certainly would explain steadily rising CO2observed at stations in regions most affected by volcanic emissions, it could partly explain the recent increase in ocean acidification discussed by Archer (2009, pp. 114-124), and further it would explain the more intense Spring melting centred on the Pacific Coast of Antarctica and along the Gakkel Ridge under the Arctic ice cap.

6.0 Conclusion: Three Million Volcanoes "Can't be Wrong"

The second most erupted gas on the planet next to steam has a significant magmatic source in which it is preferentially fractionated towards the surface. On the scale of atmospheric composition, the isotopic composition of volcanogenic CO2 is effectively indistinguishable from fossil fuel CO2 due to the complete lack of statistically significant carbon isotope determinations for each of the contributing volcanic and tectonic provinces. Moreover, molar oxidation estimates cannot be used to constrain volcanogenic CO2 output because such estimates neglect the f

Oxygen flux in the solar wind: Ulysses observations | ReadCube Articles
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Climate Change, Global Warming and the Carbon Finance Business

Post Gore and the Coming Carbon Climbdown

By Andrew McKillop
Global Research, December 09, 2014
21st Century Wire

It’s perhaps the greatest speculative bubble since Holland’s ‘Tulip Mania’.
At the peak of tulip mania, circa 1637, a single tulip bulb sold for more than 3,000 Dutch guilders – that’s 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman in those days. It was great while it lasted, but reality eventually caught up with the creative opportunists.
Man-made global warming, or as it likes to be referred to these days as ‘climate change’, had a grand plan in its heyday. The mythology was underpinned by a new economic model, one which hoped to monetize CO2 emissions – or more accurately, the absence of CO2.
Think of Al Gore and his associates like David Blood as the Bernie Madoff of the environmental movement. They created a market which has been disintegrating from day one, including a total collapse of the Chicago Climate Exchange, but not before the principle players cashed in their shares and abandoned that hip. It’s a epic story of modern day high priests and sooth sayers, political hubris and pseudo-scientific largess on a scale never before seen in history.
But their story is far from over. Get ready for the epic climbdown..

IMAGE: Blood and Gore: The carbon trading horror show.

Contrarian Pirouette from Al Gore
For Al Gore and his investor fund partner David Blood, their current thrust is more like dancing in the dark than out of the box thinking, due to “warmists” and “peakists” now having to fight on several fronts at the same time. Writing in ‘Wall Street Journal’ and similar outlets several times in 2013, they soldiered forward with the claim that “fossil carbon assets” are headed for a bust, and “green energy” can only soar. Along with Britain’s Lord Stern, the former World Bank chief economist and author of the Stern Report on “fighting” global warming, they say all fossil fuels are so dangerous for the world’s climate they must be completely phased out by 2050 or before.
Investing in these fossil carbon assets is therefore, they say, a guaranteed disaster.
Gore and Blood however know well through operating their climate-energy hedge fund, Generation Investment Management that the “carbon finance” business, especially emissions credits and related financial assets, has already suffered a bust. The world’s only mandatory credits trading scheme – in Europe – is struggling to keep itself afloat. Reasons why Europe’s ETS is now on political life support and may be scrapped include massive over-issue of credits by European governments and the European central authorities, outright fraud and re-issue of already used credits, uncertainty concerning the future value of credits, and other factors such as the intrinsic worthlessness of ‘hot air credits’.
In a winter during which Niagara Falls partly froze over, for only the second or third time in more than 100 years, the whine that global warming is alive, well and menacing becomes difficult to gurgle with a straight face, but it has been so profitable to proponents like Gore that we can understand why they are loath to invent a new Doom Thing. Their twin fight against climate-damaging and rapidly depleting oil, gas and coal reserves also has major real world logic problems.
ETS and Bad Bets
Massive over-issue of ETS tradable paper


DBThe problem of global warming and the solution to global warming from the same inventors.DB
 

Locutus

Adorable Deplorable
Jun 18, 2007
32,230
46
48
66
Skeptics Cleared Off Stage: Apollo 7 Astronaut Rushed Off Stage At UN Climate Summit To Make Way For Kerry Photo Op

Skeptics’ presentation at UN Abruptly Cut Short
Former NASA astronaut Walt Cunningham Had Just Finished Slamming the UN climate Summit for perpetrating the ‘one of the biggest frauds in the field of science’
Climate Depot's Marc Morano ripped the UN: 'The UN climate process will do nothing for climate change and it is completely designed to enrich the UN.'

 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
How the Science Got Settled



Anyway, here's what I had to say about Climategate in my column for Maclean's (Canada's equivalent to Time magazine basically) on December 7th 2009. This piece is one of the "documents" Mann's lawyers requested in discovery. After I responded to his discovery, he then declined to go ahead with my discovery. So I may recoup the costs by publishing Michael E Mann's Discovery Requests as my next book. In the meantime, here's Climategate as it looked half a decade back:

"The gravest challenge that we face is climate change . . . Every one of our compatriots must feel concerned"- Nicolas Sarkozy, President of the French Republic;

"The climate crisis threatens our very survival" - Herman Van Rompuy, "President" of "Europe";

"We cannot compromise with the catastrophe of unchecked climate change" - Gordon Brown, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom;

"Generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children . . . this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal"- Barack Obama, President of the United States.

The science is so settled it's now perfectly routine for leaders of the developed world to go around sounding like apocalyptic madmen of the kind that used to wander the streets wearing sandwich boards and handing out homemade pamphlets. Governments that are incapable of - to pluck at random - enforcing their southern border, reducing wait times for routine operations to below two years, or doing something about the nightly ritual of car-torching "youths," are nevertheless taken seriously when they claim to be able to change the very heavens - if only they can tax and regulate us enough. As they will if they reach "consensus" at Copenhagen. And most probably even if they don't.
How did we reach this point? Ah, well. Like the proverbial sausage factory, you never want to look too closely at how the science gets settled. The other day, a whole bunch of electronic documents most probably leaked by a disaffected insider from the prestigious Climatic Research Unit at Britain's University of East Anglia were posted online. Given that the CRU has conceded their authenticity, they provide a fascinating glimpse at the science underpinning the calm measured statements of Sarkozy, Brown, Obama, and wossname, the Belgian bloke - as well as of Kyoto, Copenhagen, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the "carbon credits" scam, the U.S. "cap and trade" monstrosity and every other major "climate change" boondoggle this century. They confirm what the soi-disant "skeptics" have long known:

1) The Settled Scientists have wholly corrupted the process of "peer review."
Phil Jones, director of the CRU, writing to Michael Mann, creator (le mot juste) of the now discredited "hockey stick" graph, about two academics who disagree with him:
I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow - even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!
Professor Mann on an academic journal foolish enough to publish dissenting views:
Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal.
Professor Jones's reply:
I will be emailing the journal to tell them I'm having nothing more to do with it until they rid themselves of this troublesome editor.
And you'll be glad to hear they did!

2) The Settled Scientists have refused to comply with Freedom of Information requests by (illegally) deleting relevant documents.
Phil Jones to Michael Mann on Feb. 3, 2005:
The two MMs [McKitrick and McIntyre, the latter the dogged retired Ontarian who runs the Climate Audit website] have been after the CRU station data for years. If they ever hear there is a Freedom of Information Act now in the U.K., I think I'll delete the file rather than send to anyone.
And, indeed, the CRU subsequently announced that they had "inadvertently deleted" the requested data.
3) The Settled Scientists have attempted to (in the words of one email) "hide the decline" — that's to say, obscure the awkward fact that "global warming" stopped over a decade ago.
Phil Jones, July 5, 2005:
The scientific community would come down on me in no uncertain terms if I said the world had cooled from 1998. Okay it has but it is only seven years of data and it isn't statistically significant.
4) The Settled Scientists have tortured the data into compliance with political requirements.
From the computer code for one of the "Mann" models:
Plots (1 at a time) yearly maps of calibrated (PCR-infilled or not) MXD reconstructions of growing season temperatures. Uses 'corrected' MXD - but shouldn't usually plot past 1960 because these will be artificially adjusted to look closer to the real temperatures.
Yet perhaps the most important revelation is not the collusion, the bullying, the politicization and the evidence-planting, but the fact that, even if you wanted to do honest "climate research" at the Climatic Research Unit, the data and the models are now so diseased by the above that they're all but useless. Let Ian "Harry" Harris, who works in "climate scenario development and data manipulation" at the CRU, sum it up. Mr. Harris was attempting to duplicate previous results—i.e., to duplicate all that science that's supposedly settled, and the questioning of which consigns you to the Climate Branch of the Flat Earth Society. How hard should it be to confirm settled science? After much cyber-gnashing of teeth, Harry throws in the towel:
ARGH. Just went back to check on synthetic production. Apparently - I have no memory of this at all - we're not doing observed rain days! It's all synthetic from 1990 onwards. So I'm going to need conditionals in the update program to handle that. And separate gridding before 1989. And what TF happens to station counts?
OH F**K THIS. It's Sunday evening, I've worked all weekend, and just when I thought it was done I'm hitting yet another problem that's based on the hopeless state of our databases. There is no uniform data integrity, it's just a catalogue of issues that continues to grow as they're found.
Thus spake the Settled Scientist: "OH F**K THIS." And on the basis of "OH F**K THIS" the world's enlightened progressives will assemble at Copenhagen for the single greatest advance in punitive liberalism ever perpetrated on the developed world.
Back in the summer, I wrote in a column south of the border:
If you're 29, there has been no global warming for your entire adult life. If you're graduating high school, there has been no global warming since you entered first grade. There has been no global warming this century. None. Admittedly the 21st century is only one century out of the many centuries of planetary existence, but it happens to be the one you're stuck living in.
In response to that, the shrieking pansies of the eco-left had a fit. The general tenor of my mail was summed up by one correspondent: "How can you live with your lies, dumb*f**k?" George Soros's stenographers at Media Matters confidently pronounced it a "false claim." Well, take it up with Phil Jones. He agrees with me. The only difference is he won't say so in public.
Which is a bit odd, don't you think?
Phil Jones and Michael Mann are two of the most influential figures in the whole "climate change" racket. What these documents reveal is the greatest scientific scandal of our times - and a tragedy. It's not just their graphs but their battle lines that are drawn all wrong. Science is never "settled," and certainly not on the basis of predictive models. And any scientist who says it is is no longer a scientist. And the dismissal of "skeptics" throughout the Jones/Mann correspondence is most revealing: a real scientist is always a skeptic.
It may well be that Warmergate has come along too late. I won't pretend to know the motivations of Jones, Mann and their colleagues, but judging from recent eco-advertising their work appears to have driven worshippers at the First Church of the Settled Scientist literally insane. A new commercial shows polar bears dropping from the skies onto city streets and crushing the cars below. To those of us who still quaintly recall 9/11, it evokes grotesquely those poor souls who chose to jump from the Twin Towers and die in one last gulp of air rather than perish in the fireball within. But who cares? Their plight is as nothing next to that of the polar bear. Why are they plummeting to their deaths from the heavens? As the ad explains, "An average European flight produces over 400 kg of greenhouse gases for every passenger. That's the weight of an adult polar bear."
Oooookay. It's A Warmerful Life: every time they call your flight, a poley bear loses its wings.
Some in the political class go along because it's too much effort to resist. A few are presumably true believers. But what a lot of the rest like about "global warming" is the "global" bit: you can't do anything about it at town or county or even national level. No, sir, we need a "global" response. Fortunately, as Herman Van Rompuy, "President" of "Europe," puts it: "2009 is the first year of global governance."
That's great news, isn't it? I would urge the delegates at Copenhagen to listen to the experts and issue a comprehensive statement fully reflecting the rigorous scientific evidence. Here's my draft:
OH F**K THIS.
~from Maclean's, December 7th 2009.

How the Science Got Settled :: SteynOnline