Scotland might just show the rest of us the way to reset social democracy

Colpy

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When you had to be 30, there was no "Greece." There was a collection of independent city-states. Most of them had no democracy at all, and the ones that did limited voting to about 10% of the population.

But in order to make your silly point, you've dreamed up a nation-state (which didn't even exist until the late sixteenth century), taken one characteristic that applied to a small part of it, and concluded that's the reason for its success.

What an insane exercise in cherry picking.

"Greece" also practiced slavery, Colpy. I suppose you'll be advocating that next. How bout the status of women?

That's how far you've travelled intellectually.

Oh, go away, Troll..

Geezus.

Slaves, women and young men couldn't vote in ancient Athens because they would be cheating. They are unlikely to vote for the interests of status quo so obviously they shouldn't vote.

Yes, yes yes, I know.....and 90% of the population of Sparta were slaves of one type or the other....yeah yeah.

Geezus.

I was only making a small point.

NONE of this BS changes the essential fact that 16 year olds were ONLY granted the vote for ONE vote, and only because of the way they would vote.....which makes it illegitimate
 

Locutus

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Jun 18, 2007
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So Scotland is now like a friend who walked out of your party shouting how sh!t it is but had to come crawling back because it realised it had no cab fare
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Mar 18, 2013
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Oh, go away, Troll..

Geezus.



Yes, yes yes, I know.....and 90% of the population of Sparta were slaves of one type or the other....yeah yeah.

Geezus.

I was only making a small point.
I actually agree with you on that. It's how you "make your point" that's complete crap.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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And that's supposed to convince me? ;)
At 16 you aren't full blown at anything, other than being horny.

So Scotland is now like a friend who walked out of your party shouting how sh!t it is but had to come crawling back because it realised it had no cab fare
No wonder you are in the position you are in. That's why the head stepped down isn't it, to make that easier. In true Brutish fashion I can hardly wait to see what the full repercussions are.

Here is our version of 'spreading the good news'. Damn rights God is going to reward those responsible or who did nothing to stop it. Thos murdered men women and children will be with god at the first possible moment, the others wait until time is up and if they weren't gathered at that time they never would be so nobody will miss them when they are absent from the 1,000 year reign.
In Reverse - YouTube
 

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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First of all, it's "Quebecers," not "Quebecans."

Second, that was Scotland's first referendum, and the Yes vote in Scotland's first referendum was higher than in Quebec's first referendum.


Well, you'll have to wait decades, if not for eternity, to see how the second Scottish referendum fares with that of the second Quebecan referendum.

Big Eck, who is now stepping down as SNP leader and as Scotland's First Minister (his fellow fish, Sturgeon, is a dead on cert to take over both roles), has conceded that he will never see Scottish independence in his lifetime. He's 59.

The fact of the matter is that the only reason there was a second Quebecan referendum was because the Quebecans are more desperate to secede from Canada than the Scots are from the UK.

So Scotland is now like a friend who walked out of your party shouting how sh!t it is but had to come crawling back because it realised it had no cab fare


And we know who would have paid for the cab fare....

One nation, now when are you going to work on the morality issues that haven't been addressed in that 307 years or is that also something that has never really mattered as long as they are the ones doing the punishing.
You may think you have won a prize, you didn't, you lost your only opportunity to come up with some real changes. I'm not sure why you are cheering that, not that it really matters to anybody. Scotland can be part of the implosion that comes from 307 years of doing thing in an immoral manner.

What a load of claptrap. Come back when you can post something meaningful.

At the age of 16 I was a full-blown Marxist.

Do we let kindergarten kids vote??

Of course not.

You have to be of an age to have some life experience, to have a mature view of the world, to have experienced some of life's responsibility..........you need to be of an age where your brain stem has become fully attached. 16 ain't it.

The Greeks used to vote at 30 years old.

Better that than 16.

Correct. As teenagers kids often have silly, naive Left Wing views of the world.

Once they get older and learn a few life lessons, however, they tend to grow out of their Left Wing tendencies.

The SNP did cheat by allowing 16 and 17 year old the vote. It was just surreal seeing kids turning up at polling stations in their school uniforms. Thankfully, however, their cheating backfired, as it turned out most 16 and 17 year old oppose independence, whereas the SNP thought the opposite was true.
************

Here's the message Her Majesty gave to the nation after she learned that her old kingdom is staying together.....

The Queen's message following Scotland's referendum


Elizabeth II on her Balmoral estate in Scotland presented as Sovereign of The Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of The Thistle, a chivalric Order that dates from the Seventeenth Century


After many months of discussion, debate, and careful thought, we now know the outcome of the Referendum, and it is a result that all of us throughout the United Kingdom will respect.

For many in Scotland and elsewhere today, there will be strong feelings and contrasting emotions – among family, friends and neighbours. That, of course, is the nature of the robust democratic tradition we enjoy in this country. But I have no doubt that these emotions will be tempered by an understanding of the feelings of others.

Now, as we move forward, we should remember that despite the range of views that have been expressed, we have in common an enduring love of Scotland, which is one of the things that helps to unite us all. Knowing the people of Scotland as I do, I have no doubt that Scots, like others throughout the United Kingdom, are able to express strongly-held opinions before coming together again in a spirit of mutual respect and support, to work constructively for the future of Scotland and indeed all parts of this country.

My family and I will do all we can to help and support you in this important task.

ELIZABETH R.

Salmond's speech yesterday in which he declared he will be resigning as SNP leader and Scotland's First Minister:

Alex Salmond's resignation speech - YouTube
 

Corduroy

Senate Member
Feb 9, 2011
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Oh, go away, Troll..

Geezus.



Yes, yes yes, I know.....and 90% of the population of Sparta were slaves of one type or the other....yeah yeah.

Geezus.

I was only making a small point.

NONE of this BS changes the essential fact that 16 year olds were ONLY granted the vote for ONE vote, and only because of the way they would vote.....which makes it illegitimate

How does that make it illegitimate? The SNP supports lowering the voting age to 16. Their justification for lowering the age in the referendum was because they planned on reducing it permanently in an independent Scotland. I don't doubt they also thought it would win them votes, that's what politicians do, but their stated reasons do make sense.

Here's the message Her Majesty gave to the nation after she learned that her old kingdom is staying together.....

The Queen's message following Scotland's referendum


Elizabeth II on her Balmoral estate in Scotland presented as Sovereign of The Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of The Thistle, a chivalric Order that dates from the Seventeenth Century


After many months of discussion, debate, and careful thought, we now know the outcome of the Referendum, and it is a result that all of us throughout the United Kingdom will respect.

For many in Scotland and elsewhere today, there will be strong feelings and contrasting emotions – among family, friends and neighbours. That, of course, is the nature of the robust democratic tradition we enjoy in this country. But I have no doubt that these emotions will be tempered by an understanding of the feelings of others.

Now, as we move forward, we should remember that despite the range of views that have been expressed, we have in common an enduring love of Scotland, which is one of the things that helps to unite us all. Knowing the people of Scotland as I do, I have no doubt that Scots, like others throughout the United Kingdom, are able to express strongly-held opinions before coming together again in a spirit of mutual respect and support, to work constructively for the future of Scotland and indeed all parts of this country.

My family and I will do all we can to help and support you in this important task.

ELIZABETH R.

She's laying that sarcasm on pretty thick. Didn't know she had it in her.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Was listening to the radio this morning, Jean Charest had some predictions for the UK based on what happened in Quebec.
1- The Yes side will claim the No side only won by fear mongering, implying that the election was stolen.
2- Even if the UK government makes good on their promises, the separtists will not accept it.
3- The separtists will try for another referendum in 5-10 years.
 

MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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Was listening to the radio this morning, Jean Charest had some predictions for the UK based on what happened in Quebec.
1- The Yes side will claim the No side only won by fear mongering, implying that the election was stolen.
How many people did the Gov bus int Quebec to pad the 'No' vote? Any number more than zero make the result 'stolen'.

What a load of claptrap. Come back when you can post something meaningful.
Is the the Brustish way of holding free and fair elections? You seem to have missed it first time around or is it one of those 'inconvient little details' that are forbidden subjects because it shows widespread corruption in the UK?

What a load of claptrap. Come back when you can post something meaningful.
Is the the Brustish way of holding free and fair elections? You seem to have missed it first time around or is it one of those 'inconvenient little details' that are forbidden subjects because it shows widespread corruption in the UK?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oRg-VKuE68

http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/news/vote-fraud-scottish-referendum

In Glasgow, “Police are investigating ten cases of electoral fraud.”
Voters turned up at polling stations to find that people had already voted using their names.
Police officers have removed the ballot papers concerned.
The papers were from 10 different boxes across Glasgow, and not concentrated in one area.
 
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Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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How many people did the Gov bus int Quebec to pad the 'No' vote?

I don't know that they did, much less if they did, how many. Furthermore, if they did, in order to steal the election, it has to be enough to change a simple dichotomous answer to the alternative to actually have been stolen. Even furthermore, so long as they are eligible voters, then who gives a crap how they got there. Unless of course you have evidence of guns put to peoples heads.

As you can see, or maybe cannot see, the implication that the election was stolen rests on a long line of unsubstantiated assumptions and illogical deductions.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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I don't know that they did, much less if they did, how many. Furthermore, if they did, in order to steal the election, it has to be enough to change a simple dichotomous answer to the alternative to actually have been stolen. Even furthermore, so long as they are eligible voters, then who gives a crap how they got there. Unless of course you have evidence of guns put to peoples heads.

As you can see, or maybe cannot see, the implication that the election was stolen rests on a long line of unsubstantiated assumptions and illogical deductions.

There was no exit poll. It is not illogically deduced that this would best serve a desired successfully tampered with result. Also the gravity of the referendum strongly recommends by hook or by crook.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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As you can see, or maybe cannot see, the implication that the election was stolen rests on a long line of unsubstantiated assumptions and illogical deductions.
In Scotland there is video proof, is it going to be concluded that 'so what, it probably wasn't enough to make a difference' but you can bet your bottom dollar the Queen would be screaming if the vids showed that it was the other way around. That's pretty typical of the world, one side gets to cheat and the other side doesn't.
As for the Quebec thing they should have let the rest of the country hold the vote, they would have been out.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
The Scotts will be divided from here on. Not a thing I would wish them

They already were divided hence the voting, but yer right, here comes the blood.


Russian Election Observers: Westminster Rigged Scottish Independence Vote

The head of Russia’s election observation body has sensationally accused the British government in Westminster of rigging the Scottish Independence vote, asserting that there were more ‘yes’ votes than ‘no’ votes despite the no campaign claiming victory.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
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The Queen's message following Scotland's referendum


Elizabeth II on her Balmoral estate in Scotland presented as Sovereign of The Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of The Thistle, a chivalric Order that dates from the Seventeenth Century


After many months of discussion, debate, and careful thought, we now know the outcome of the Referendum, and it is a result that all of us throughout the United Kingdom will respect.

For many in Scotland and elsewhere today, there will be strong feelings and contrasting emotions – among family, friends and neighbours. That, of course, is the nature of the robust democratic tradition we enjoy in this country. But I have no doubt that these emotions will be tempered by an understanding of the feelings of others.

Now, as we move forward, we should remember that despite the range of views that have been expressed, we have in common an enduring love of Scotland, which is one of the things that helps to unite us all. Knowing the people of Scotland as I do, I have no doubt that Scots, like others throughout the United Kingdom, are able to express strongly-held opinions before coming together again in a spirit of mutual respect and support, to work constructively for the future of Scotland and indeed all parts of this country.

My family and I will do all we can to help and support you in this important task.

ELIZABETH R.

Does Purple represent sarcasm?
 

MHz

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This is 2014 not 1914.
If you can't comprehend Russia straightening their (political) act up so the poorest get a better deal then it also stands to reason that the West going corrupt (and abusing the poorest of their citizens) would also be impossible for you to accept as being a fact. It is pretty easy to find lies promoted by the West but can you do the same for Russia, say from 2000AD and on?