Is the US a Christian country?

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
To try and argue - out of sheer desperation in the face of all evidence to the contrary, in my opinion - that the USA is NOT a Christian country is just completely and utterly LUDICROUS.
That's because you can see only one definition of what that means, a country in which most of the citizens profess to be Christians. There are other readily defensible definitions under which the U.S. is not and cannot be a Christian country, because of what's called the establishment clause in its constitution. The U.S. was not founded on Christian values either, it was founded very explicitly on Enlightenment values, which you ought to know something about, several of your countrymen were among the Enlightenment's intellectual leaders. Isaac Newton, Edward Gibbon, John Locke, David Hume... Probably really rots your socks that a lot of them were French too. Rousseau, D'Alembert, Diderot...
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Do you mean to "believe in the Bible" or "Believe the Bible"? -:)
Either way. Gandhi and the old medicine man I knew were 10 times more Christian than 99% of self professed Christians I've met. To be a Christian, as far as I'm concerned, is to live a life as Christ did: feed the poor, heal the sick, take care of the infirm - love thy neighbor as thy self, judge not .. etc. Belief has nothing to do with Christianity. It is all about the life you lead, how you treat people, how much love you have in your heart. The rest is just so much farting in the wind.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Either way. Gandhi and the old medicine man I knew were 10 times more Christian than 99% of self professed Christians I've met. To be a Christian, as far as I'm concerned, is to live a life as Christ did: feed the poor, heal the sick, take care of the infirm - love thy neighbor as thy self, judge not .. etc. Belief has nothing to do with Christianity. It is all about the life you lead, how you treat people, how much love you have in your heart. The rest is just so much farting in the wind.


You have it pegged, Cliffy? Nothing worse than these controlling S.O.B.s of exalted stature in the church.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
That's because you can see only one definition of what that means, a country in which most of the citizens profess to be Christians. There are other readily defensible definitions under which the U.S. is not and cannot be a Christian country, because of what's called the establishment clause in its constitution. The U.S. was not founded on Christian values either, it was founded very explicitly on Enlightenment values, which you ought to know something about, several of your countrymen were among the Enlightenment's intellectual leaders. Isaac Newton, Edward Gibbon, John Locke, David Hume... Probably really rots your socks that a lot of them were French too. Rousseau, D'Alembert, Diderot...
I'm more than tempted to let him have it his way and all the British has touched in the last 1,000 years is Christian just because it will be judged and rewards given, right after the 'chastisement' is over. Where many are going with the Christian thing is the right to wield a sword against evil. If the cause is against evil you are claiming to be killing for Christ when the orders are to feed all the people before Christ recognizes them having the authority to remove leaven from the church. That is restricted to the actual points listed in Romans:13, once those rules are ignored or broken the sword is said to be 'red' (Satan's color in Scripture)
The Bible's verses pretty much match the UN Children's rights but covers all people)
If NATO wants to be 'the sword' then it puts itself in the position of being in hell awake for 1,000 years rather than it being a sleep that is like the blink of and eye in that you close them and open them at the GWT event with a very great many other people.

NATO and all other standing armies are an abomination, the courts and prisons are not. The manifestations of all Monarchies will be the first to be judged lacking. Matthew:23 sheep/goats.

Jews are the remnant of the 12 Tribes are down to 144,000 alive because God is not going to help them. As cruel and as impossible as that sounds it is because He has already provided for their safety by putting in 'died because of the word of God' (Re:20:4) and the prophecy for that is in Eze:39. By sending them all to the 'land of the enemy' (death) they can all be brought back from there by simply putting in a part that says it will happen. Hell for Gentiles is also a form of protection in that Satan is released and sent to the fiery lake. The men in hell see him leave but they remain in hell behind locked doors and they are opened later at the GWT.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
That's right, 12,000 from their tribe, We can't identify the other Tribes so I put them all under the name we all recognize. I'll be sure to stop making those 'summations' and stick to the actual text. Thank you.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Do I have to believe in The God Delusion to be a Dawkinsian, Cliffy?
That is a silly question if you'd read my post 104. Your book isn't the only holy book in the world and your god is only one of thousands. The only difference between an atheist and a Christian is a disbelief on only one more god. I try to follow the teachings of Jesus as much as an imperfect human can, but I would not claim to be a Christian because Christians give Christianity a bad name. I can see the divine in everyone and everything without having to believe to any set of doctrines or dogmas.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,956
1,910
113
That's because you can see only one definition of what that means, a country in which most of the citizens profess to be Christians. There are other readily defensible definitions under which the U.S. is not and cannot be a Christian country, because of what's called the establishment clause in its constitution. The U.S. was not founded on Christian values either, it was founded very explicitly on Enlightenment values, which you ought to know something about, several of your countrymen were among the Enlightenment's intellectual leaders. Isaac Newton, Edward Gibbon, John Locke, David Hume... Probably really rots your socks that a lot of them were French too. Rousseau, D'Alembert, Diderot...


Still trying desperately, for some mysterious reason (Christianophobia is my bet), to deny, against all the overwhelming evidence, that the USA is a Christian country.

America is a Christian country, always has been and, with a huge majority of its population regular church goers (unlike in Canada), always will be.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Still trying desperately, for some mysterious reason (Christianophobia is my bet), to deny, against all the overwhelming evidence, that the USA is a Christian country.

America is a Christian country, always has been and, with a huge majority of its population regular church goers (unlike in Canada), always will be.


Does church attendance make a person religious? Maybe some of the women are just interested in f**King the preacher!
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Does church attendance make a person religious? Maybe some of the women are just interested in f**King the preacher!
Church is supposed to be the best place to pick up women. Certainly, the wildest women I've met were the ones just out of the convent.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
66
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
That's right, 12,000 from their tribe, We can't identify the other Tribes so I put them all under the name we all recognize. I'll be sure to stop making those 'summations' and stick to the actual text. Thank you.


OK. Then henceforth use "tribes of Israel" as that is what is used in Rev 7:4. ;)
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
Still trying desperately, for some mysterious reason (Christianophobia is my bet), to deny, against all the overwhelming evidence, that the USA is a Christian country.

America is a Christian country, always has been and, with a huge majority of its population regular church goers (unlike in Canada), always will be.
Nothing desperate or mysterious about it, it's just a simple application of logic to a few facts and a willlingness to see that there are graduations between the polar opposites. Fact: most Americans profess to be Christian, so in that sense it's a Christian nation, as I said from the beginning. Fact: the U.S. constitution forbids Congress from declaring an official state religion, so in that sense it isn't, and can't be, officially a Christian nation, as I also said from the beginning.

You also might try doing a little research before making such sweeping claims as "...a huge majority of its population regular church goers..." According to the Wikipedia article on Church Attendance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance#Rate_of_attendance), about 40% of Americans claim to be regular church goers but the actual number is less than half that.

You can't make a good argument when your facts are wrong.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,956
1,910
113
Dear oh dear. So now the Christianophobes are either deliberately or misleadingly (the former is my bet) taking what the founding fathers said about Christianity out of context.

This is was Thomas Jefferson said about Christianity: "Christianity has the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man."

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man" is a somewhat-paraphrased version of the following:

"...those who live by mystery & charlatanerie, fearing you would render them useless by simplifying the Christian philosophy, the most sublime & benevolent, but most perverted system that ever shone on man, endeavored to crush your well earnt, & well deserved fame." - Thomas Jefferson to Joseph Priestley, Washington, March 21, 1801

Thomas Jefferson was an enthusiastic member of the Church of England, who contributed financially to his local Anglican church.
**************************


Surprise surprise, by doing a little more research I also find that John Adams did NOT say: “The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”

Again, the desperate Christianophobes are putting words into dead men's mouths to somehow invalidate the fact that the US was founded on Judeo-Christian values.

The problem with the quotation is that John Adams never said or wrote it.

The quotation is, in fact, part of Article 11 of the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli. The full text is: “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” The treaty was written by an American diplomat, John Barlow. It was approved by John Adams and ratified by The Senate.

Here’s where things get muddy. The English version of the treaty did contain Article 11, but the Arabic version did not. Furthermore, a treaty with The Barbary States was critically needed to protect U.S shipping interests in the area, and the U.S. government did not want to delay by arguing the finer points of an agreement. The Barbary States were at war with any nation that did not have such an agreement, and the U.S. was in no position, militarily, to deal with the threat until eighteen years later when it had the upper hand.

Tribute was paid to the pirates until 1815, after the 2nd Barbary War which followed the conclusion of The War of 1812, when the treaty was renegotiated and Article 11 was dropped. It may be further noted that no such verbiage as Article 11 is found in any of the treaties with the other Muslim pirate states. This invalidates the argument that Article 11 belonged in the text and would have been welcomed by Muslims.

If you want to look at other treaties as evidence, you need not look further than The Treaty of Paris of 1783, which is a formal recognition of our independence from Great Britain, which was negotiated by Ben Franklin and John Adams. Its first words are, “In the Name of the most holy and undivided Trinity.” The words or validity of this treaty are in no way in dispute.

One final point, John Adams did write in 1798, after the first ratification of The Treaty of Tripoli, in a letter to the officers of The First Brigade of The Third Division of The Massachusetts Militia, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

John Adams Did Not Say This | Precipitative Ponderings


Now begone with you, and get back to that drawing board.



 
Last edited:

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
lol, I'll be back with my reply, when you said founding fathers of Christianity I was expecting a quote from the Bible. (now a big mess to clean up you fuk)
Are you sure the things you posted are not more to do with Admiralty Law? Commerce is the issue where they were adding consumers to who had some form of 'protection', business and the royals were in partnership ever since the Magna Carta, 'the rest of mankind' was their 'fodder'. (as is the case today)

OK. Then henceforth use "tribes of Israel" as that is what is used in Rev 7:4. ;)
Don't make me look that up.
You are right that Juda does get 12,000 saved, the reason I mentioned a remnant is the term 'few in numbers' from a prophecy in De:4:30 as being a reference to the whole 144,000 and if Juda is the harlot then none of her members survive (unless the whole 144,000 are children and then the sins connected with 'blind Jews' is not connected. The Harlot is utterly killed so when it says 'all' in the Eze:39 prophecy it means all except the 144,000, 12,000 of which are Jews and all the others are the 'lost Tribes'.

Did a bit of backtracking there, I'll park my desires to summarize what is already perfected text in the future.