1500 Year Old Bible Claims Jesus Christ Was Not Crucified

[Count_Lothian]

A Christian (to me) is somebody who believes in Jesus as son of God. I strive to follow his teachings (the new testimant stuff for the most part). I tend to think those that take specific sections out of context (of a Roman Empire type world) for their own purposes (the whole Leviticus thing with homosexuality for example) are poor Christians and it is their practices I disavow.

I guess it depends on who is holding the dictionary. Personally. I believe he is the son of God not a god.

I see you think and wisely so.

I too had to delete from that harddrive we call pure Christian thought to be a Christian.

there is nothing wrong with being a Christian , as long as you know that it has been used for great misery and contempt.

We are all sons or daughters of God metaphorically once we become enlightened.

The Alchemists seek the Philosophers Stone. Once they find it and nurtue and their Great Work is accomplished they become A Stone of the Philosopher.


I will state here and now , for lack of better words I believe in the Holy Spirit.
To me The holy Spirit is part of the immune system if you will of all life.
I believe it is developed over eternity.
It's that thing that makes one look over their shoulder and see a passing falling star and wonder why they turned.
It's that thing that allows you to hear a strangers words and have an Eurekka moment in your life. the strangers have no idea that a few words strung together helped you.
It's that thing that stops you from walking into a car you had to turn to see coming.

I think it is because we are God and God is us.

The Catholics won't allow you to say this for they want Domain over you and Their Placing God above and out of reach enables them.

Islam teaches that we are God, and God created everything and everything including Satan and his wickedness comes from God.

Everything is Islam.

I am not a muslim but those words are true to my heart.

Ok the Satan part and what it implies doesn't jive for me , because you end up with entities like a bad santa going around ruining kids christmas ...lol

ok enough already...check out the link by the way i gave in last posting pretty cool stuff.

 

[Spade]

Absolutely, Spade! What is a priest, but an intercessor. I am standing in the gap for you, Dear Brother!

WE RISE AGAIN - YouTube

 

[Count_Lothian]

That particular experience is over for me, at least as far as any initiative of mine is concerned. I'm not looking anymore after coming up empty repeatedly. I was raised in the faith, and I tried, I really tried, but I just could not believe. If god wants to tell me something he knows where to find me, but after coming up empty so many times I remain convinced that there's no reality here, just things like fantasy, illusion, wishful thinking, and hallucination.

Yeah well there other paradigms to this word we use "capitol" "G" "God"

I tried too to eat the bible and it gave me indigestion and mood swings. funny that.

I get upset when evangelicals ridicule science.
It's all about evolution.
We know that for a fact.
It's a wondrous thing and yet to cling to some asinine belief that it was made in six days and thats it then.
My science teacher was a nun , who also taught religion.
She had no problem with telling us that those six days were God days and each day could be a billion years our time.
She also had no problem telling us evolution is scientific and truth, and that Adam and Eve was a metaphor.

She really was a wonderful person and I think due to her I came to the conclusion there is no God the Father, just God.
No human attributes.

The thing that annoys about the die hard atheist is that they were burned with evangelical weirdness. Their minds too enlightened not to see the the falsehoods. But they just give up thinking of the other possibilities.

I believe in God, do I pray to God, not on your life.

I'll leave it there.

 

[Motar]

Yep, it's called "reason". PS to Sister. You are still a good person. I consider you a strayed Tolstoyan.

No, Dear Brother. More than cognition and neural processes (head). Appetites and attractions (heart) play a part. The spiritual climate of the soul (head+heart) determines faith.

 

[MHz]

Trinity ONE God/Three Persons

God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit

Difficult to grasp? Yes
Concepts used to express this mystery are inadequate.

2Co:12:2:
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,
(whether in the body,
I cannot tell;
or whether out of the body,
I cannot tell:
God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven.

1Jo:5:7:
For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father,
the Word,
and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.

Proverb:8:32:
Now therefore hearken unto me,
O ye children:
for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Proverb:8:33:
Hear instruction,
and be wise,
and refuse it not.

Joh:20:17:
Jesus saith unto her,
Touch me not;
for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
but go to my brethren,
and say unto them,
I ascend unto my Father,
and your Father;
and to my God,
and your God.

Difficult to grasp? No

 

[Dexter Sinister]

There's no need to go looking for God, Dex. God is omnipresent.

Could there be something impeding your faith?

Then why do people keep trying to tell me about ways to find him? You people need to get your act together at least well enough that you can give similar advice. There's no chance people like you and cj44 and MHz and gerrhy are ever going to agree on interpretations, and that really means none of you can make a good case. And yes there's plenty impeding my faith. Like Spade said, there reason, and to that I'd add evidence. Faith in this context means belief in the absence of evidence, and sometimes in the face of the evidence, and I simply cannot and will not believe any claim if the evidence and reasons offered in support of it are insufficient to establish its truth. That's the bottom line for me, always.

 

[Spade]

Then why do people keep trying to tell me about ways to find him? You people need to get your act together at least well enough that you can give similar advice. There's no chance people like you and cj44 and MHz and gerrhy are ever going to agree on interpretations, and that really means none of you can make a good case. And yes there's plenty impeding my faith. Like Spade said, there reason, and to that I'd add evidence. Faith in this context means belief in the absence of evidence, and sometimes in the face of the evidence, and I simply cannot and will not believe any claim if the evidence and reasons offered in support of it are insufficient to establish its truth. That's the bottom line for me, always.

For your penance, say three Hail Mary's and one Our Father Go, my son, and sin no more.

 

[Motar]

Then why do people keep trying to tell me about ways to find him? You people need to get your act together at least well enough that you can give similar advice. There's no chance people like you and cj44 and MHz and gerrhy are ever going to agree on interpretations, and that really means none of you can make a good case. And yes there's plenty impeding my faith. Like Spade said, there reason, and to that I'd add evidence. Faith in this context means belief in the absence of evidence, and sometimes in the face of the evidence, and I simply cannot and will not believe any claim if the evidence and reasons offered in support of it are insufficient to establish its truth. That's the bottom line for me, always.

Reason is not an impediment to faith, Dex. An injured, walled-off heart is a hindrance though.

 

[MHz]

For your penance, say three Hail Mary's and one Our Father Go, my son, and sin no more.

That is almost like encouraging that sort of reckless sinful behavior.

Then why do people keep trying to tell me about ways to find him? .

No idea, if you haven't found Him yet it is clear that you will have to wait for Him to find you. (which is said to happen with no loss in your ultimate future with Him)

You people need to get your act together at least well enough that you can give similar advice. There's no chance people like you and cj44 and MHz and gerrhy are ever going to agree on interpretations, and that really means none of you can make a good case. .

We aren't tasked with making a case for you to alter your perceptions, that is between you and God just like our faith is between each of us and God.

And yes there's plenty impeding my faith. Like Spade said, there reason, and to that I'd add evidence. Faith in this context means belief in the absence of evidence, and sometimes in the face of the evidence, and I simply cannot and will not believe any claim if the evidence and reasons offered in support of it are insufficient to establish its truth. That's the bottom line for me, always.

How much proof do you expect to find in the period of time where the book is the only gathering device there is?

Reason is not an impediment to faith, Dex. An injured, walled-off heart is a hindrance though.

To living not just faith in God.

 

[Spade]

That is almost like encouraging that sort of reckless sinful behavior.

Okay, two Our Fathers

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Reason is not an impediment to faith, Dex.

The claims of faith are fundamentally irrational and evidence-free, otherwise faith wouldn't be necessary to sustain them, they would be demonstrable. So reason IS an impediment to faith, virtually by definition.

We aren't tasked with making a case for you to alter your perceptions...

Yes you are, scripture instructs you to spread the faith.

 

[Motar]

The claims of faith are fundamentally irrational and evidence-free, otherwise faith wouldn't be necessary to sustain them, they would be demonstrable. So reason IS an impediment to faith, virtually by definition.

Yes you are, scripture instructs you to spread the faith.

Another word for faith is trust. It is reasonable for us to trust benevolence. Reason is not an impediment to faith (trust). Do you trust anyone, Dex?

 

[lone wolf]

They're

There ....

 

[Cliffy]

The interconnectedness and interdependence of everything, the Oneness of the Universe, do not require belief or faith. It just is. The word God is a symbol for the unknowable, the incomprehensible of eternity/infinity. Every human being regardless of faith, religion, creed of cultural background, is part of the whole. But some like to argue about semantics, about personal views and perspectives about the infinite unknowable, just like some try to imagine a personal relationship with this unknowable quality they call god/atman/christ/great spirit. It is all about the ego wanting to be more than some insignificant speck of dust in an infinite sea of specks of dust. Some people are content knowing that they are insignificant some are not. In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter if you believe or have faith in the infinite because we are all just part of the greater whole.

 

[cj44]

The claims of faith are fundamentally irrational and evidence-free, otherwise faith wouldn't be necessary to sustain them, they would be demonstrable. So reason IS an impediment to faith, virtually by definition.

Yes you are, scripture instructs you to spread the faith.

Dexter,
What do you think of Luther's thoughts on reason? -

"God has given me reason and all the faculties of my mind... It is reason that contributes the essential difference between man and other living beings, indeed everthing else. Reason provides the light by which man can see and administer the affairs of this world. Reason is the source and bearer of all culture. It has discovered all arts and sciences, all medicine an law, and it admisinters them."
Reason, however, is not able to apply itself to invisible things. Reason judges on the basis of external appearances. Reason is caught within the limits of this world. Earthly realities and possibilities are its ultimate standard of judgment and it cannot set itself free of them. It rejects everything that does not accord with this standard. It recognizes only that which conforms to its evaluation of reality. Reason therefore shuts out the word of God and faith. For the word proclaims God's hidden salvation. What it promises is unbelievable, impossible, and absurd; it lies beyond all possible experience, all natural ability to comprehend, and all reason."

He goes on to say - " Faith is concerned precisely with these impossibilities. It deals with impossible matters which will first be made possible in the future. Faith trancends reason. Faith believes against reason, which is the same as saying against the "flesh", against one's own heart, against one's own feeling and experience. "

He goes on to say that God's word & faith are in sharp opposition to reason. Initially, I believe that to be true - before faith, we rely on what we know and can see.

He has more to say on the matter when faith takes root.

Anyway, I do not disagree with you in regards to reason. I think the means by which God encounters us and we Him is in his word. That's were he meets us and our faith is then added to God's gift of reason and then both faith & reason are able to live together peacefully.

The interconnectedness and interdependence of everything, the Oneness of the Universe, do not require belief or faith. It just is. The word God is a symbol for the unknowable, the incomprehensible of eternity/infinity. Every human being regardless of faith, religion, creed of cultural background, is part of the whole. But some like to argue about semantics, about personal views and perspectives about the infinite unknowable, just like some try to imagine a personal relationship with this unknowable quality they call god/atman/christ/great spirit. It is all about the ego wanting to be more than some insignificant speck of dust in an infinite sea of specks of dust. Some people are content knowing that they are insignificant some are not. In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter if you believe or have faith in the infinite because we are all just part of the greater whole.

Thanks for those uplifiting thoughts, Cliffy! I don't think you are insignificant, Cliffy. Certainly you are not some speck of dust. God cares for you. For you specifically.

 

[Count_Lothian]

The interconnectedness and interdependence of everything, the Oneness of the Universe, do not require belief or faith. It just is.

And is very beautitul. The Buddhist concept of Sunyata , or emptiness , says it all.

The word God is a symbol for the unknowable, the incomprehensible of eternity/infinity. Every human being regardless of faith, religion, creed of cultural background, is part of the whole.

simple enough eh! you think people could be satisfied with that. lol

But some like to argue about semantics, about personal views and perspectives about the infinite unknowable,

They have been taught to do so, even arm themselves and fight for their beliefs that need faith due to the nature of the stuff they are told to believe in.

the biblical god of the old testament is not God but a god of war and violence.
Something like Hachiman the Shinto god of war.

I'm going to ask these Christians to prove otherwise.

just like some try to imagine a personal relationship with this unknowable quality they call god/atman/christ/great spirit. It is all about the ego wanting to be more than some insignificant speck of dust in an infinite sea of specks of dust. Some people are content knowing that they are insignificant some are not.

and yet each atom is as important as each group of atoms.

In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter if you believe or have faith in the infinite because we are all just part of the greater whole.

I get that.

 

[Cliffy]

Thanks for those uplifiting thoughts, Cliffy! I don't think you are insignificant, Cliffy. Certainly you are not some speck of dust. God cares for you. For you specifically.

Whoosh! As part of the whole, it matters not what you believe. You are still part of the whole. Do you think that a blood cell has the capacity to understand its role in the greater whole of your body? Does a skin cell understand the roll of a blood cell? Now, exchange blood cell and skin cell with Christian and atheist and can you not see the pointlessness of arguing over who is right or who is wrong? We all have a role to play in the overall drama of the whole, even if it is insignificant in the greater scheme of things.

From my perspective, the view of the whole seems to be different from yours, but does it matter to the whole/god/universe? It is the story of the three blind men encountering an elephant. One feels the leg, one the trunk and another, the testicles. Each imagines what an elephant is from their perspectives. None can really imaging what a whole elephant really is. The non-beiever, the believer and the skeptic all have part of the picture, none has the whole image. But if they all put their minds together, cooperate, they will have a more complete idea of what the elephant is.

 

[Count_Lothian]

Why would you give your life to a god that a tribe begged for help in their asinine wars.
Wow the walls of jericho came tumbling down and a place was pillaged, yaya thank the god for the help.

Get this one mad and your entire city is toast.
watch it happen and you turn to salt.

Nice guy this god is.

Helping moses ooops there was no moses...
meh ..

If i came face to face with this small g god i would hope i had the balls to tell it what it is...at least for eternity i would go down a righteous dude.

this god is a menace. there is no mercy in it at all.

Jesus came and tried to make like he tamed the thing. lol.

 

[cj44]

Whoosh! As part of the whole, it matters not what you believe. You are still part of the whole. Do you think that a blood cell has the capacity to understand its role in the greater whole of your body? Does a skin cell understand the roll of a blood cell? Now, exchange blood cell and skin cell with Christian and atheist and can you not see the pointlessness of arguing over who is right or who is wrong? We all have a role to play in the overall drama of the whole, even if it is insignificant in the greater scheme of things.

From my perspective, the view of the whole seems to be different from yours, but does it matter to the whole/god/universe? It is the story of the three blind men encountering an elephant. One feels the leg, one the trunk and another, the testicles. Each imagines what an elephant is from their perspectives. None can really imaging what a whole elephant really is. The non-beiever, the believer and the skeptic all have part of the picture, none has the whole image. But if they all put their minds together, cooperate, they will have a more complete idea of what the elephant is.

I call the leg.

 

[Cliffy]

I call the leg.

Watch out you don't become the gooey stuff under that massive foot.