Said it before and I will say it again:
Bingo! The mosquito is going to have a very long winter next year as food and energy imports from Ukraine cease.
Russia has always relied on Ukraine's food and coal.
PM announces air, naval, land forces support in Ukraine
- Thread starter FiveParadox
- Start date
Bingo! The mosquito is going to have a very long winter next year as food and energy imports from Ukraine cease.
Russia has always relied on Ukraine's food and coal.
Which is why putin must be stopped now. No more *****footing around like we did when he invaded the Stans and Georgia.
The problem I have here is the people of Eastern Ukraine don't want to be anywhere
the west is. Sad as that may be we can't have nations going in to other countries
and dismantling the institutions.
If the Ukraine wants to fight a civil war that is there business and we should stay out
foreign occupation is another matter
the west is. Sad as that may be we can't have nations going in to other countries
and dismantling the institutions.
If the Ukraine wants to fight a civil war that is there business and we should stay out
foreign occupation is another matter
I thought the Chief and Commander (Governor General) made these calls, not the PM.... oh well.
Pressure from Ukrainian Canadians?
They're Canadians now.... that's like me asking the PM to step into Ireland and settle that stuff with the IRA because my family has history with Ireland.
It's not Canada's business to step into this and they are not covered by NATO, it's as simple as that.
We should protect them and get involved in a military conflict based on principles and because they're a so-called Democracy like Canada?
Cuz that worked so well in the past when the US tried the same thing with Vietnam where the North was getting support from the Soviet Union.
This time around instead of North and South, we have East and West. The real difference is that there are actual Russians on the ground backing up other Russians who live on that ground.
Democracy?
It wasn't Democracy when violent riots broke out and forced the then Ukrainian Leader to flee so this half assed government could take over without a democratic process.
I can see the other members in here waiting to jump in and make some comment that I'm just afraid of Russian, which isn't the case.
I'm just not stupid. People comment about how the Russian military is in shambles or a joke? Hardly, they're in better condition that either the US or Canada due to spending so much money, resources and man power in other conflicts over the last decade and Russia has also a well known population pool to throw into a war much like they have done before.
The Germans thought Russia's military was a joke and used inferior weaponry, etc... That didn't turn out too well. It's not what you have but what you do with what you have.
Canada was made a country in WWI due to the abilities of our soldiers to do what others couldn't and at great cost. Canadians were never the best equipped nor had the largest military, but Canadians know how to do things effectively with what we got.
However this isn't something to be rattling our sabres over. Russia has been expanding their recon and flight paths to test everybody's defences, the US, Canada, the UK, etc.... They are multitasking.
Worst case scenario?
We send troops to Ukraine, we start shooting Russians soldiers, they shoot back and then they roll through our poorly defending arctic and take the land and territory both countries have been disputing over for years.
What will Canada do? Call back those troops to help defend the North?
Would they even make it there before the ships are sunk?
Canada needs to beef up its defences in the North before we start thinking of punching Russia in the nose.
It makes no sense to try and bop Russia in the face when we leave our pants down to get raiped from behind.
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Quite so. No one's saying it's not. Also a grand photo op for Helmet with no risk for himself. Nato may make Russia stand down, but Canada can't do it alone.
No one's denigrating the CAF or the fact that you served during the cold war.
Just saying Harper will cheerfully get people killed to glean votes.
We'll just have to watch how this plays out. We certainly have no say in the matter.
Let's also keep in mind that it isn't just Russia NATO nations have to worry about. Russia has close ties with China..... Another large country with another large populous and a very effective military, plus oodles of money to back it up.
Even if China doesn't get involved militarily, they can still hurt Western Nations in their pockets and productivity. The US and Canada have already flung poop at China for a number of things, even how most of the products people take for granted are made in China. Maybe they just decide, "you know what? We're taking our business elsewhere, invest more in Russia, help our buddies in North Korea and since Russia is taking land back that used to be theirs and keeping NATO busy (which will keep the US busy) we'll take some of these other areas that used to be ours at the same time.
It's so easy to forget history and thump chests for the "right" thing based on principles, even when they have nothing to do with us.... But it's a whole other ballgame when you look at the bigger picture.
Just keep in mind that at face value, Russia looks like a nation that multiple nations can team up against and push back, but Russia isn't technically alone either and does have friends..... Friends who are closer to Russia than they are to other Western nations.
This isn't some sand dune nation with 3rd world weapon hand me downs and any sort of action will have consequences.
Yes, maybe if everybody stands up and holds hands, Putin might blink.
And maybe he won't. He has already shown he will use force at the snap of a finger when he can justify it is in the interests of Russia (or himself) like this conflict and what happened with Georgia.
The difference I see is that while Western, NATO and Euro nations quabble and debate what they should do, he does..... And before any action is decided properly on our end, he's already got everything on the move and planning the next several steps.
My only point is that if people want to go to war with Russia or try to show a stronger position, we need to be prepared and show we can back our sh*t up.... As well as accept the consequences of those positions.
Sanctions, cutting off fuel supplies and financial support, etc are all one thing.... Going to war and sacrificing the lives of our nations citizens are another.
Putin and his supporters believe they are protecting their nation and its people..... What are we protecting?
Democracy?
Do you think that will motivate our citizens to take up arms against a force that beleives they are protecting and taking back their lands, people and homes??
Even if China doesn't get involved militarily, they can still hurt Western Nations in their pockets and productivity. The US and Canada have already flung poop at China for a number of things, even how most of the products people take for granted are made in China. Maybe they just decide, "you know what? We're taking our business elsewhere, invest more in Russia, help our buddies in North Korea and since Russia is taking land back that used to be theirs and keeping NATO busy (which will keep the US busy) we'll take some of these other areas that used to be ours at the same time.
It's so easy to forget history and thump chests for the "right" thing based on principles, even when they have nothing to do with us.... But it's a whole other ballgame when you look at the bigger picture.
Just keep in mind that at face value, Russia looks like a nation that multiple nations can team up against and push back, but Russia isn't technically alone either and does have friends..... Friends who are closer to Russia than they are to other Western nations.
This isn't some sand dune nation with 3rd world weapon hand me downs and any sort of action will have consequences.
Yes, maybe if everybody stands up and holds hands, Putin might blink.
And maybe he won't. He has already shown he will use force at the snap of a finger when he can justify it is in the interests of Russia (or himself) like this conflict and what happened with Georgia.
The difference I see is that while Western, NATO and Euro nations quabble and debate what they should do, he does..... And before any action is decided properly on our end, he's already got everything on the move and planning the next several steps.
My only point is that if people want to go to war with Russia or try to show a stronger position, we need to be prepared and show we can back our sh*t up.... As well as accept the consequences of those positions.
Sanctions, cutting off fuel supplies and financial support, etc are all one thing.... Going to war and sacrificing the lives of our nations citizens are another.
Putin and his supporters believe they are protecting their nation and its people..... What are we protecting?
Democracy?
Do you think that will motivate our citizens to take up arms against a force that beleives they are protecting and taking back their lands, people and homes??
They aren't Ukrainian. They were moved in from the poorest parts of Russia after Holodomor by Stalin.
It's sad people don't have a clue.
Ask Cuba and Iran how much of a bitch the US turns into when she doesn't get what she wants from other Nations.
Perhaps everybody who moved in since about 70AD should be removed then. Perhaps the 'invaders' of North America should go home also, you know back to the Ukraine in some cases.
If it is so important why do you have it so wrong?
Which part of Russian Aggression are you referencing in that the coup was sponsored by the West and the Government in power that was elected chose not to kill protesters, unlike the ones behind the coup who adapt the tactics used in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain, and Russia doesn't give them their marching orders, the West does. Even if Obama calls the current Govt 'duly elected' that doesn't make it a fact, it makes him a liar and liars never lie just once.
Those 3 words show who is fu*ked. Perhaps a little deportation of a few million civilians would be to your liking.
It is surprising how people's views migrate to resemble those of the very people they claim to hate.
Have I ever loved the Soviets? Was I ever fooled by their Bolshevik ways?
Do you want another Soviet Union imprisoning 50 million people?
I sure as sh-t don't.
Wake up.
Do you want another Soviet Union imprisoning 50 million people?
I sure as sh-t don't.
Wake up.
The Russian revolution began in Petrograd (St. Petersburg) and Kiev (the capital of what today we call the Ukraine).
Today wasn't 1919 is it?
He doesn't lielike the use of force even though it,s the end of freedom for millions.
Who's freedom is ending? Who's freedom are we talking about here anyways?
The western backed Ukrainian governemt/people or the others who seem to really want to go back into the fold of Mother Russia?
Freedom and Democracy & all that warm feely good stuff......
The logical and most simple solution in all of this is to let democracy do its thing. This whole problem began when one section of Ukraine decided to riot and use violence to oust the country's leader, avoiding a democratic process, which led to another government being installed without the democratic say of others in the country, specifically the eastern part of the country. They didn't get to vote for this new government but are expected to accept this new government installed by mob rule.
The other issue is that they wanted to have their own referendum on whether they stay with Ukraine or become a part of Russia once again.... But are told that isn't democratic and they can't simply do that without the say of the rest of Ukraine, which would no doubt vote to keep them a part of the nation anyways.
And nobody sees any hypocrisy with any of this?
They didn't vote for this government yet are expected to be ruled by it and at the same time they're not supposed to be able to vote to leave the country because they're supposed to involve the rest of the country in such a vote which would nullify that vote, keep them a part of the country and continue to be ruled by a government they never had the chance to vote for in the first place.
They are slapped in the face saying that by Ukrainian law and all that, they can't pull this stunt and consider invalid without involving the rest of the country in the vote, yet the same thing isn't applied to these other people who revolted and ousted the previous government through violence and death, ignoring the country's lawful process. The referendum was deemed void by this new government and the west, yet the new government isn't deemed void by the west using the same logic.
Again, hypocrisy.
The West glorifies this new government as some sort of beacon of Democracy when it's the farthest thing from the truth, yet villainize these people who want to be a part of a nation that is far more stable, has closer ties to and protected.... Who held their referendum anyways and voted in favor of joining Russia.
Some say it was at gun point which is why they voted in favor and because Russian troops were influencing the vote, yet if that was the case, why wasn't there a huge swath of people fleeing the area towards the west and pleading to be saved from the evil Russians?
Putin said he put troops on the ground in order to maintain security and protection of the Russian speaking populace.... That seems to have been the case and when the east voted in favor to be a part of Russia, Ukrainian forces were pushed out and without any bloodshed or a shot fired.
Sorry, but that's pretty effective work in my opinion.
It's only now that deaths and bloodshed is happening where the Ukrainian government is deciding to use force.
What needs to be done is what i mentioned earlier.... If we all believe in Democracy, then let it happen. Let each area of Ukraine vote democratically if they support the new government or want to leave and either become part of Russia or become their own little state, or whatever.
^ I'm pretty sure this is what Putin said a while back that should happen and he supports.
Hold a meeting between Russia, the EU, NATO and this Ukrainian Farce of a Government, agree on a hand picked team to go in and observe all the votes to ensure no interference and are neutral or come from a neutral country, count the ballots and see what happens when the dust settles.
Yeah, it all sounds like a big pain in the azz, but that's democracy for ya and it's the most logical solution at this time without the need to have other nations talking about war.
Again, this all started with the ousting of the previous Ukrainian government by a not-so democratic process and through violence..... Look at the mess created when violence was used and democracy wasn't.
Do people seriously think more violence will solve this issue? (war)
If people think war and conflict is the only answer and a democratic process like the above wouldn't work, then those people don't have any faith in democracy in the first place and only use the term for their own selfish arguments for their own gain.
Yes, let's all go to war in the name of democracy, yet don't allow democracy to actually solve the problem you're going to war for...... The definition of brilliance right there.
The western backed Ukrainian governemt/people or the others who seem to really want to go back into the fold of Mother Russia?
Freedom and Democracy & all that warm feely good stuff......
The logical and most simple solution in all of this is to let democracy do its thing. This whole problem began when one section of Ukraine decided to riot and use violence to oust the country's leader, avoiding a democratic process, which led to another government being installed without the democratic say of others in the country, specifically the eastern part of the country. They didn't get to vote for this new government but are expected to accept this new government installed by mob rule.
The other issue is that they wanted to have their own referendum on whether they stay with Ukraine or become a part of Russia once again.... But are told that isn't democratic and they can't simply do that without the say of the rest of Ukraine, which would no doubt vote to keep them a part of the nation anyways.
And nobody sees any hypocrisy with any of this?
They didn't vote for this government yet are expected to be ruled by it and at the same time they're not supposed to be able to vote to leave the country because they're supposed to involve the rest of the country in such a vote which would nullify that vote, keep them a part of the country and continue to be ruled by a government they never had the chance to vote for in the first place.
They are slapped in the face saying that by Ukrainian law and all that, they can't pull this stunt and consider invalid without involving the rest of the country in the vote, yet the same thing isn't applied to these other people who revolted and ousted the previous government through violence and death, ignoring the country's lawful process. The referendum was deemed void by this new government and the west, yet the new government isn't deemed void by the west using the same logic.
Again, hypocrisy.
The West glorifies this new government as some sort of beacon of Democracy when it's the farthest thing from the truth, yet villainize these people who want to be a part of a nation that is far more stable, has closer ties to and protected.... Who held their referendum anyways and voted in favor of joining Russia.
Some say it was at gun point which is why they voted in favor and because Russian troops were influencing the vote, yet if that was the case, why wasn't there a huge swath of people fleeing the area towards the west and pleading to be saved from the evil Russians?
Putin said he put troops on the ground in order to maintain security and protection of the Russian speaking populace.... That seems to have been the case and when the east voted in favor to be a part of Russia, Ukrainian forces were pushed out and without any bloodshed or a shot fired.
Sorry, but that's pretty effective work in my opinion.
It's only now that deaths and bloodshed is happening where the Ukrainian government is deciding to use force.
What needs to be done is what i mentioned earlier.... If we all believe in Democracy, then let it happen. Let each area of Ukraine vote democratically if they support the new government or want to leave and either become part of Russia or become their own little state, or whatever.
^ I'm pretty sure this is what Putin said a while back that should happen and he supports.
Hold a meeting between Russia, the EU, NATO and this Ukrainian Farce of a Government, agree on a hand picked team to go in and observe all the votes to ensure no interference and are neutral or come from a neutral country, count the ballots and see what happens when the dust settles.
Yeah, it all sounds like a big pain in the azz, but that's democracy for ya and it's the most logical solution at this time without the need to have other nations talking about war.
Again, this all started with the ousting of the previous Ukrainian government by a not-so democratic process and through violence..... Look at the mess created when violence was used and democracy wasn't.
Do people seriously think more violence will solve this issue? (war)
If people think war and conflict is the only answer and a democratic process like the above wouldn't work, then those people don't have any faith in democracy in the first place and only use the term for their own selfish arguments for their own gain.
Yes, let's all go to war in the name of democracy, yet don't allow democracy to actually solve the problem you're going to war for...... The definition of brilliance right there.
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Part of Russia? Your confused with Russian and the Soviets. These f-ckers are Soviets. They never went away.
Maybe we should take a poll and see how people feel about the third largest source of food being hijacked and taken off the market. It will cost us all dearly.
Maybe we should take a poll and see how people feel about the third largest source of food being hijacked and taken off the market. It will cost us all dearly.
In your addled brain anything about Russia is no later that 1919. One person cannot be as stupid as your posts suggest so you have to be a (low paid) troll and one of the worst I have ever encountered. WASFCYA