Scathing UN report demands Vatican action on abuse
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Every single possibility?... Hell, they haven't looked anywhere else.
Wow... Were you drunk and high when you wrote this?
Do you have a better explanation?
By all means, let us discuss the reasons many priests are pedophiles. It's certainly a more fruitful discussion than the tinfoil hatter discussion.
From what I understand the ratio of pedophiles is the same in society.
As to many- need some numbers?
As to celibacy driving men to molest children due to lack of availability of the "fairer sex" I disagree.
From what I have read on these forums, credible links, studies, there is no correlation to support that view.
The ratio is the same?
Not that I wouldn't believe you but rather than make a hamfisted comment like the guy above me, could you provide some numbers to back up your claim?
As I said before I'll concede the point about it not being the cause. It is certainly a reasonable line of thinking that sexual frustration can lead to these kinds of acts even if it does not have a statistical foundation.
But what's more concerning is that this reasonable explanation is being used as a cover up.
Celibacy and child abuse | Andrew Brown | Comment is free | theguardian.com
Obviously, celibacy is impossible for some people, and well-adjusted celibacy is extremely rare and difficult. But it does exist. The official Catholic claim is that all priests are capable of it, although they are a tiny minority of believers, and the evidence suggests that some are; of those who don't, the majority clearly prefer adult women as partners. So I don't think that celibacy, by itself, explains the original offences, though it did make the priesthood as a profession more attractive to men who were confused or in denial about their own sexuality.
But I do think that celibacy played an important role in the cover-up. The point about celibate brotherhoods is that they become just that – brotherhoods, in which your primary affectionate bonds are with your brothers. The institutional loyalty is rooted in this, and will not last without it. That is what will give you a sense that no one outside really understands, something which so easily modulates into a belief that the outside world is just wrong.
This kind of groupthink isn't of course unique to Catholics, or even to religions in general. Shared hardship will always tend to weld together more closely any group it does not blow apart. But I think that corporate celibacy is a very powerful generator of group thinking, probably quite as powerful as bonobo-style corporate orgies would be.
But what's more concerning is that this reasonable explanation is being used as a cover up.
Celibacy and child abuse | Andrew Brown | Comment is free | theguardian.com
Obviously, celibacy is impossible for some people, and well-adjusted celibacy is extremely rare and difficult. But it does exist. The official Catholic claim is that all priests are capable of it, although they are a tiny minority of believers, and the evidence suggests that some are; of those who don't, the majority clearly prefer adult women as partners. So I don't think that celibacy, by itself, explains the original offences, though it did make the priesthood as a profession more attractive to men who were confused or in denial about their own sexuality.
But I do think that celibacy played an important role in the cover-up. The point about celibate brotherhoods is that they become just that – brotherhoods, in which your primary affectionate bonds are with your brothers. The institutional loyalty is rooted in this, and will not last without it. That is what will give you a sense that no one outside really understands, something which so easily modulates into a belief that the outside world is just wrong.
This kind of groupthink isn't of course unique to Catholics, or even to religions in general. Shared hardship will always tend to weld together more closely any group it does not blow apart. But I think that corporate celibacy is a very powerful generator of group thinking, probably quite as powerful as bonobo-style corporate orgies would be.
I recall that Gerry h had posted numerous links, all credible. I read them over, checked them out and had no reason to fault them.
For those who believe celibacy has no role should examine Father Cozzens' seminal work.
Freeing Celibacy: Donald Cozzens: 9780814631607: Amazon.com: Books
Freeing Celibacy: Donald Cozzens: 9780814631607: Amazon.com: Books
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Sex abuse is definitely not limited to the Catholics but because they are one of the biggest organizations they will have the chances of having a higher number of people doing things they shouldn't be. And their record is deep in history. The biggest problem the Catholics have is they haven't corrected the problem.
I could have given the Catholics a pass on this but these cases have been documented for decades yet the Church just shuffles the predators around to different areas and or countries and they just keep on coming with no firm response from the Church other than to 'pay out cash' to the victims.
Would it be easy to correct? NO.
Sexual predators seem to be everywhere regardless of gender, race, or status.
While some may 'deride' Harper for his 'Little Drummer Boy' problem, I for one do not equate him with his band mate. There is no way Harper could have known this guy was so inclined just as those interviewing potential Priests could know.
Of course one has to step back and ponder why someone would commit themselves to a life of celibacy when they are of such a young age.
I once met a Catholic Priest (of Portuguese decent) in Canada when I was likely in Grade 12. He didn't seem to be much older than us but was likely around 25 or so. The reason we met him is he was buying some pot off of my friend, who knew him through family.
I now wish I had asked him why he chose this path.
At that time I never thought much about the 'child sex abuse' because it was mainly relegated to their schools and the depth of it wasn't as popular, at least for me back then, but I do remember as we two left the Church property wondering why an reasonably good looking guy would commit himself to no women.
And let me clarify I don't know why this guy did (become a priest) and I never saw him again and wouldn't know him if I saw him but the 2 of us could not understand the whole concept.............
Authorities say children's minister Jeff Eddie told them he had so many sexual experiences with children at his church he could not recall all the times he had done it.
A felony complaint police filed against Eddie, 41, said the Highland Park Baptist Church children's minister admitted to performing oral sex and masturbating children when Muscle Shoals investigators questioned him Sunday.
New details in minister child sex arrest - Huntsville News | WAAYTV.com and ABC 31: Local News
I could have given the Catholics a pass on this but these cases have been documented for decades yet the Church just shuffles the predators around to different areas and or countries and they just keep on coming with no firm response from the Church other than to 'pay out cash' to the victims.
Would it be easy to correct? NO.
Sexual predators seem to be everywhere regardless of gender, race, or status.
While some may 'deride' Harper for his 'Little Drummer Boy' problem, I for one do not equate him with his band mate. There is no way Harper could have known this guy was so inclined just as those interviewing potential Priests could know.
Of course one has to step back and ponder why someone would commit themselves to a life of celibacy when they are of such a young age.
I once met a Catholic Priest (of Portuguese decent) in Canada when I was likely in Grade 12. He didn't seem to be much older than us but was likely around 25 or so. The reason we met him is he was buying some pot off of my friend, who knew him through family.
I now wish I had asked him why he chose this path.
At that time I never thought much about the 'child sex abuse' because it was mainly relegated to their schools and the depth of it wasn't as popular, at least for me back then, but I do remember as we two left the Church property wondering why an reasonably good looking guy would commit himself to no women.
And let me clarify I don't know why this guy did (become a priest) and I never saw him again and wouldn't know him if I saw him but the 2 of us could not understand the whole concept.............
Authorities say children's minister Jeff Eddie told them he had so many sexual experiences with children at his church he could not recall all the times he had done it.
A felony complaint police filed against Eddie, 41, said the Highland Park Baptist Church children's minister admitted to performing oral sex and masturbating children when Muscle Shoals investigators questioned him Sunday.
New details in minister child sex arrest - Huntsville News | WAAYTV.com and ABC 31: Local News
To sum it up, a man married to a woman may still be a pedophile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#cite_note-ICD-10-2
Having priests marry will not stop this problem.
allowing priest to marry will however increase the number of men who feel called to minister in this way thus removing the need to keep these perpetrators around.
There's something about his whole celibacy equates to pedophillia notion that smells an awful lot like this type of thing:
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/i...-female-politician-suggests-indian-women.html
Contrived. A thinly veiled prejudice against a specific target ostensibly framed as an "intellectual" discussion.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/i...-female-politician-suggests-indian-women.html
Contrived. A thinly veiled prejudice against a specific target ostensibly framed as an "intellectual" discussion.
Not at all.
Celibacy is a Latin Rite discipline introduced in the twelveth century. It can and should be changed. There is a married clergy in the Eastern Rite of the Catholic Curch. The Church welcomes married clergy who convert to Catholicism. At least 39 popes were married and many more were in liasons while holding the office.
Why should it be changed? Not because upwards of 50% in North America are gay. That is irrelevant. The problem with celibacy is that as Cozzens points out many who are most comfortable with their security, those that are intellectually and emotionally secure, many who would be able to relate on a personal level with parishioners, those who do not need to escape to celibacy, simply do not consider the priesthood. To say those who point to celibacy as a problem that must be addressed are concealing an unhealthy bias against the Church, frankly is an unworthy canard.
Needless to say there can be issues with Celibacy.
But the question was, does Celibacy lead to Pedophilia?
No, Goober, that is the wrong question. The question is: does celibacy draw candidates to the priesthood that should not be in that role for a number of reasons, some sexual?
Besides, by surveys of priests themselves, at any given time 50% are sexually active. Would it not be more honest and healthier...?
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.
Discussion of the reasonableness/appropriateness of celibacy, is a separate and distinctly different discussion than the implication that it is a directly causal factor in pedophilic behaviours. Because it's not. Not anymore than choosing teaching as a profession is a direct cause, not anymore than choosing to become a Scout leader is a direct cause. Because I've yet to see anyone target those last two groups, also quite well established to be places where pedophiles may hide, and take them to task in the same way as I've seen people take the priesthood to task.
There are boatloads of men out there who, whether by choice or circumstance, end up living a celibate lifestyle. They do not en mass become pedophiles.
And do not misunderstand me, I'm not sticking up for the Vatican or the church. Embrace Catholicism or don't, I don't really care. But do understand what a pedophile is, what they are capable of, what their patterns of behaviour actually are and stop trying to stick a square peg in round hole. It simply does not fit. There are reasons we see the numbers that we do see in the priesthood, as there are reasons we see them in the Boy Scouts, but celibacy is not the reason.
Some folks make it their business to tinker with all those around them in order to create a world to their liking