Should Ford Resign?

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
3
36
London, Ontario
A big chunk of them either dont have priorities at all or just dont care. The voter turnout in the 2011 election was 49.2%. Yes, individual voters dont tend to sway much one way or another, but there is a lot more than one person always staying home. More than half the voters more or less said "I dont care." In a way theyre getting what they deserve.

Absolutely. You get what you vote for, or as the case may be, what you don't turn up to vote against.

Most of the press now a days reads like a tabloid, and especially when they get something like this to beat to death. TMZ has more integrity at this point than a lot of the 'traditional news sourses". And that's really freaking sad!

I've never understood this reveling in someone's bad fortune, whether they brought it on themselves or not.
 

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
12,822
49
48
10
Aether Island
I don't doubt you don't care that he's a conservative. But I'd bet money you're happy he's a conservative... ;-).

To be honest, and it may be a surprise to some, I have voted for all parties, including the Tories, and occasionally all in the same year. Is Ford doing the Conservative a favour? Obviously not. I am certain Conservatives would only too happy to see him disappear from the public stage to which he subbornly clings.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
All things being equal I would take Ford the buffoon - who has kept a number of his promises- over John Tory a Party hack.

But I find all these police resources were to get Ford with something. No arrests and they had probable cause up the hoop.
Look at the resources assigned to this.

Makes a man wonder it do, yes it do.
 

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
12,822
49
48
10
Aether Island
All things being equal I would take Ford the buffoon - who has kept a number of his promises- over John Tory a Party hack.

But I find all these police resources were to get Ford with something. No arrests and they had probable cause up the hoop.
Look at the resources assigned to this.

Makes a man wonder it do, yes it do.

More than one road leads to Rome.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
More than one road leads to Rome.
And many do not take the time to lift the curtain and see all the crap going on.
So far the Police investigation was a complete waste of resources- and the more I look at it, based upon a political decision to use those resources.
If they show corruption- Then I will change my opinion- But for now I see no reason for him to resign.

Go to Google- type in rob then space, see what is listed.





http://****robford.blogspot.ca/2013/05/rob-ford-crack-cartoons.html
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,814
467
83
Just because he shouldn't resign, doesn't mean the police investigation is a waste of resources.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Just because he shouldn't resign, doesn't mean the police investigation is a waste of resources.

The police had probable cause on a number of occasions- did not do squat.
Wiretaps
Trackers were placed on certain vehicles
Cameras on poles
Aerial surveillance
Searched garbage
They have laid 1 charge
Investigation used considerable and specially assigned Officers, all high profile and at the top of their game.
I guess 3 to 5 million plus spent, or squandered.

John Tory had previously announced-hinted that he was open to running for Mayor.
Only so many votes on the left
Tory is a party hack and freaking useless.

So what drove the use of so many resources for such little return.

I lean to political alliances.

And your opinion is?
 
Last edited:

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,814
467
83
SO far they haven't been able to charge him with anything so it looks more like a witch hunt. Or if you want to be charitable call it squandering taxpayer's money.

The purpose of their investigation isn't to fire Ford.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,814
467
83
OK- I will bite- What did Blair state the purpose was.

There are a bunch of people networked, somehow involved with crime and a murder somewhere thrown in. I'm sure that's worth investigating to see where the source was.

But it doesn't have to be the mayor.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
There are a bunch of people networked, somehow involved with crime and a murder somewhere thrown in. I'm sure that's worth investigating to see where the source was.

But it doesn't have to be the mayor.

Somali drug dealers killing Somali drug dealers- we have about 20 or so in about a year or so.
Nothing new there.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,814
467
83
Somali drug dealers killing Somali drug dealers- we have about 20 or so in about a year or so.
Nothing new there.

I'm all for police catching culprits regardless if they are politicians or .. somali.. drug dealers...
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
I'm all for police catching culprits regardless if they are politicians or .. somali.. drug dealers...

And I am all for a person with an addiction screwing up.
There is an old saying about alcoholics.
Shake my family tree and all the drunks fall out.
My family tree did not need a shake. They were passed out before climbing the tree.
Grew up with that.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,814
467
83
I hear ya.

I think my generation grew up to be more brazen about politics. Either that or completely and utterly disenfranchised about it.

Edit.. meant to be a link
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,814
467
83
Can't watch vids on this- win 7 - Ffox and nada- so I will watch it on the desktop later.

No worries.

It was the latest thing going around Facebook last month. A lot of the hipsters (the real ones for Bear's info) love this guy because he's preaching about not voting as a way to reform politics - which would be like asking Colpy to describe what he was like just after university.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Manna from a good reporter.
Rob Ford’s prominence in police investigation into two other men puzzling, experts say | National Post

It is on page 96 of a 465-page police file released by an Ontario Superior Court judge when euphoria over a deluge of salacious details on Toronto Mayor Rob Ford wanes and a question creeps in: why is the mayor’s request for a junior staffer to bring two cases of Diet Coke to his Etobicoke home included in a police search warrant, written to help pinch two small-scale marijuana dealers?

On page 118, Toronto police say a former member of the mayor’s staff told detectives the mayor was “bawling” when he learned he could no longer coach high school football; on page 135 police say Mr. Ford called staff in tears from his father’s gravesite; on page 155 he is accused of calling a taxi driver a “Paki;” and, on the next page, detectives reveal they were told he called out to a female security guard he was “going to eat her box.”

Such embarrassing entries, guzzled by the world’s media and late-night comedians, are puzzling when read against the document’s pro forma opening: on page 2, detectives say the document was prepared to justify a search of property belonging to two men, neither of whom is Rob Ford.

Mr. Ford is referenced 2,049 times in the document. One of the men charged in the case, Jamshid Bahrami, is named only 184 times. The other man charged, Alexander Lisi, is named 2,029 times.

The Fords — the mayor and his city councillor brother, Doug — expressed their views on why, with Doug accusing Police Chief Bill Blair of a conspiracy aimed at regime change; of wanting to “put a political bullet right between the mayor’s eyes.”

But there are broader, less fervid, concerns.

“There is an inordinate amount of information on our mayor that does not appear to be relevant to the investigation or the request to a judge to issue a search warrant. There is a lot about conduct which is of questionable value to the stated purpose,” said Joseph Neuberger, a Toronto criminal defence lawyer, who is not involved in the case.

“The police were doing what they had to do – following crime. They gather as much information as possible. But the reason for the inclusion of so much information on the behaviour of the mayor in the [Information to Obtain, called an] ITO is not sufficiently clear to me.”
Related

“How did those very personal and very sad details get deemed as relevant to use, as reasonable and probable grounds to believe an offence has been committed, for the purpose of a search warrant?”

It is not so much a question of why police looked into the mayor at all. That has been amply answered in the ITO. There is enough evidence gathered by officers to show cause for alarm, although none of it has been tested in court.

The proximity of the mayor to a large guns-and-gangs probe, codenamed Project Traveller, and to a murder investigation, that of Anthony Smith, prompted detectives to raise “the Rob Ford connection,” as it is called by police in the ITO. Mr. Smith was killed in March; police think he might have had a video on his phone that appears to show Mr. Ford smoking crack cocaine.

Other portions of the ITO appear to be relevant to a drug probe, including pages of information provided to detectives by the mayor’s former staff who suspected Lisi of helping Mr. Ford buy drugs.

‘How did those very personal and very sad details get deemed as relevant to use?’

It seems natural that an investigator might secretly follow the mayor when he is with Lisi, a suspected drug dealer, especially when the meetings take place under suspicious circumstances, such as when Lisi is seen placing packages in the mayor’s car or disappearing into the woods with the mayor.

The public importance of investigating a nexus between a city’s chief magistrate and drug dealers, not to mention a video that may have led to violence, threats and death, appears to be clear. But what of the plethora of other shocking information, much of it best described as juicy gossip? Are police investigating moral lapses and crass behavior?

Mark Pugash, spokesman for the Toronto police, said investigators anticipated the criticism — and reject it.

“There is a strong element of ‘we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t,’” he said. Put a lot of detail in and police are accused of being politically motivated against the mayor; put little in and the same officers are accused of shielding and covering up for the mayor.

Mr. Pugash agreed that when the mayor stumbled into the frame of the police probe it required special handling, if for no other reason than that it would draw unprecedented scrutiny. “It is because of the profile of the investigation that there has been this abundance of caution,” he said.

Chief Blair worked to mitigate the fallout, he said.

Step one was the chief assigning his top investigator to be at the helm, Det.-Sgt. Gary Giroux, said Mr. Pugash. Step two was to consult outside the force: “They have consulted with the Crown throughout the whole process. They have taken advice at every single stage in the process,” said Mr. Pugash.

Before Chief Blair stood on live television to reveal that police had recovered a copy of the infamous video — during which he said watching it left him “disappointed” — he consulted with two lawyers on what he should and should not say, Mr. Pugash said.

“The best defence against people accusing you of either targeting or shielding is to make sure that everything you’ve done is absolutely clear, that you can articulate why you’ve done what you’ve done, the length you’ve gone to get advice.

“The decision about what would be included in it came as a result of very detailed consultation with the Crown.”

But venture into specifics — like why Mr. Ford’s call to a staff member to come change the light bulbs outside his house or to replace batteries in a children’s toy — and Mr. Pugash declines to explain.

“It may well come out in court,” he said.

“We have been accused of both covering up for him and for targeting him. If people are accusing you of completely incompatible things, the chances are, you’re probably right down the middle.”

Defence lawyers questioning the police approach agree that, for now, police get the benefit of the doubt, but the difference between the ITO involving the mayor and any other does not diminish.

Mr. Neuberger has dissected many ITOs in his career, including in a massive probe against Mafia boss Alfonso Caruana, one of the world’s largest drug traffickers. None looked like this one.

“It is extremely long. It is extremely detailed. I’ve never seen a 500-page ITO. I have never seen such detail in an ITO. All of this sort of comes together quite uncomfortably,” he said.

“If it is not bearing fruit for a criminal investigation it is not relevant. Superfluous, irrelevant information ought not to be in there,” he said. “As to the motive, I can’t speculate,” said Mr. Neuberger.

Notes Mr. Clark: “Once it is in the ITO, the investigators know it will be seen by other eyes.”


“I have wondered,” said Mr. Clark, “about what might happen when police do that to a politician who hasn’t alienated so many people, who hasn’t been so belligerent and engendered such animosity.”

The court proceedings that may shed light on the police investigation are proceeding but could take years to conclude.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,814
467
83
I'm not an expert on police investigations, but I'm sure all of this could be settled by Blair giving a practical explanation.

In my field of expertise we sometimes request medical documentation and you can get piles of stuff that doesn't really match the investigation but is lumped in with the relevant stuff.

It could be that Blair ordered surveillance on Ford for a period of time and they monitored everything he did. I'm sure that accounts for some of the reason why Ford and Lisi made some dodgy calls to eachother from remote locations.

This has got to get some more media attention soon.
 
Last edited: