Even the illegals are running from ObamaCare

B00Mer

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For first time since Depression, more Mexicans leave U.S. than enter



A four-decade tidal wave of Mexican immigration to the United States has receded, causing a historic shift in migration patterns as more Mexicans appear to be leaving the United States for Mexico than the other way around, according to a report from the Pew Hispanic Center.

It looks to be the first reversal in the trend since the Depression, and experts say that a declining Mexican birthrate and other factors may make it permanent.

“I think the massive boom in Mexican immigration is over and I don’t think it will ever return to the numbers we saw in the 1990s and 2000s,” said Douglas Massey, a professor of sociology and public affairs at Princeton University and co-director of the Mexican Migration Project, which has been gathering data on the subject for 30 years.

Nearly 1.4 million Mexicans moved from the United States to Mexico between 2005 and 2010, double the number who did so a decade earlier. The number of Mexicans who moved to the United States during that period fell to less than half of the 3 million who came between 1995 and 2000.

The trend could have major political consequences, underscoring the delicate dance by the Republican and Democratic parties as they struggle with immigration policies and court the increasingly important Latino vote.

Illegal immigration has emerged as one of the most emotional political issues in the country — one that dominated much of the Republican presidential contest and has proven complicated for President Obama.

Mitt Romney has courted conservatives with aggressive anti-illegal immigration rhetoric. But the GOP presidential hopeful has said in recent days that he wants to build ties with Hispanics, many of whom have chafed at his statements, and the new immigration trends could offer him a chance to soften his stance.

Obama has been criticized by immigrant advocates for stepped-up deportation policies that analysts have said were partly responsible for the decreasing flow of Mexicans into the United States. The trend could offer the president a political silver lining: the chance to take credit for a policy success that, his aides have said in the past, should persuade Republicans to embrace a broad immigration overhaul plan.

According to the report, the Mexican-born population, which had been increasing since 1970, peaked at 12.6 million in 2007 and has dropped to 12 million since then.

Finally, pants that work well both on the bike and in the office.

The reversal appears to be a result of tightened border controls, a weak U.S. job and housing construction market, a rise in deportations and a decline in Mexican birthrates, said the study, which used U.S. and Mexican census figures and Mexican government surveys. Arrests of illegal immigrants trying to enter the United States have also dropped precipitously in recent years.

Whether the reversal is temporary or permanent, it could have significant implications for the United States. Many Mexican immigrants work in agriculture and construction.

One in 10 people born in Mexico live in the United States, and more than half entered illegally. Most live in California and Texas; about 120,000 live in the Washington region.

The report does not specify how many of those who moved to Mexico had been in the United States illegally. But the statistics imply that many of them had been: The number of undocumented Mexicans here dropped from 7 million in 2007 to 6.1 million in 2011, while the number of those here legally increased slightly, from 5.6 million in 2007 to 5.8 million in 2011.

“The diminished flow appears largely to be a drop in unauthorized immigrants,” said Jeffrey Passel, a senior demographer at Pew and a co-author of the report. He said an estimated 5 to 35 percent of the recent returnees to Mexico were deported.

Although most Mexican deportees say they will try to return, their numbers are shrinking, too, the study said: According to a Mexican government survey, 20 percent of deportees in 2010 said they would not return to the United States, compared with 7 percent in 2005.

Half of those returning to Mexico took their entire families, including more than 100,000 U.S.-born children of Mexican immigrants. Children born in the United States to Mexican nationals are citizens of both countries.

The drop comes at a time when overall immigration to the United States continues to grow, and reflects several factors specific to Mexico, including a relatively strong economy and a sharply diminished birthrate.

In 1960, a typical Mexican woman was expected to have more than seven children, but by 2009 that number had dropped to just over two — a decline that presages a sharp reduction in the number of young workers seeking to come to the United States.

As immigration reform continues to be a divisive political issue, experts on both sides of the debate disagreed over the implications of the report.

source: For first time since Depression, more Mexicans leave U.S. than enter - Washington Post

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Not sure the illegals qualify for ObamaCare, but I like the title anyhow ;)
 

Sal

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For first time since Depression, more Mexicans leave U.S. than enter
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Not sure the illegals qualify for ObamaCare, but I like the title anyhow ;)
lol yeah because it's so misleading and technically pointless but gets the name Obama in there in a negative way... ;-)
 

Walter

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The new name is Obamacaid since it lowers everyone's care to Medicaid levels.
 

Sal

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The new name is Obamacaid since it lowers everyone's care to Medicaid levels.
but then would in fact raise a lot of people to medicaid levels since there are so many americans who have zero coverage...and many who do not seek medical help because they can't afford it and don't say they don't exist I see them on my wall crawl on FB all the time
 

captain morgan

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but then would in fact raise a lot of people to medicaid levels since there are so many americans who have zero coverage...and many who do not seek medical help because they can't afford it and don't say they don't exist I see them on my wall crawl on FB all the time

It is a myth that people that US citizens who didn't have private medical insurance received no healthcare.
 

Sal

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It is a myth that people that US citizens who didn't have private medical insurance received no healthcare.
Ah but there's the rub.... no healthcare, verses adequate health care.

If your leg is severed you can go to emerg and they will save you. If you have breast cancer and need long term high level care, it doesn't happen in the regular system like it does here.

And that is what the poor need there.
 

Cliffy

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It is a myth that people that US citizens who didn't have private medical insurance received no healthcare.
Bankruptcies resulting from unpaid medical bills will affect nearly 2 million people this year—making health care the No. 1 cause of such filings, and outpacing bankruptcies due to credit-card bills or unpaid mortgages, according to new data. And even having health insurance doesn't buffer consumers against financial hardship.

Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com
 

captain morgan

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Ah but there's the rub.... no healthcare, verses adequate health care.

If your leg is severed you can go to emerg and they will save you. If you have breast cancer and need long term high level care, it doesn't happen in the regular system like it does here.

And that is what the poor need there.


Define 'adequate' in terms of this discussion... There are many Canadians (read: most) that don;t feel the Cdn system is responsive enough in providing anything close to adequate here whether it's the inability to find a family Doc or waiting months for basic exams/diagnostic imaging.

The end result is the same as having state-insurance in the US; the respective gvts are just using different methods of rationing the service.
 

Sal

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Define 'adequate' in terms of this discussion... There are many Canadians (read: most) that don;t feel the Cdn system is responsive enough in providing anything close to adequate here whether it's the inability to find a family Doc or waiting months for basic exams/diagnostic imaging.

The end result is the same as having state-insurance in the US; the respective gvts are just using different methods of rationing the service.
If you have a chronic condition such as Parkinson's or MS you are only covered up to and including some things...it is not ongoing and the providers will fight it...they are a business and not there to ensure your health.

There was a documentary on a month ago. A real estate agent who made millions a year was diagnosed with breast cancer. She made a documentary of her journey and those she met along the way. She has now dedicated herself to health care for women because she lost friends along the way that could not afford the treatment she received. Their insurance simply does not cover it. There were also huge time lapses in their treatment due to inability to pay for treatments not covered by their providers. They do not have the same opportunity for health as we do here. Of course the rich do and that is A okay with many people.


There are a million stories like this. The number of people that lose everything due to medical bills is unconscionable. But then I believe all have the right to equal health care.

We are no where near as good as we could be, but if sick, I'll take my chances here.

Frankly I do not really care much about their systems or how they operate...I do care about the people I hear of who are bankrupt or have no opportunity to seek medical help including those on my FB wall.
 

mentalfloss

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Define 'adequate' in terms of this discussion... There are many Canadians (read: most) that don;t feel the Cdn system is responsive enough in providing anything close to adequate here whether it's the inability to find a family Doc or waiting months for basic exams/diagnostic imaging.

The end result is the same as having state-insurance in the US; the respective gvts are just using different methods of rationing the service.

You're making a pretty grand sweeping generalization there. Responsiveness is only one aspect of the healthcare system. Also, there are many countries with better healthcare overall and they are public.

I think it really depends on the diagnosis and cause of the illness. There are some people who are free to completely **** up their bodies, but maybe they need to pay extra when they've given themselves cancer.
 

captain morgan

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...they are a business and not there to ensure your health.

Same as in Canada.. Don't fool yourself into believing otherwise

There was a documentary on a month ago. A real estate agent who made millions a year was diagnosed with breast cancer. She made a documentary of her journey and those she met along the way. She has now dedicated herself to health care for women because she lost friends along the way that could not afford the treatment she received. Their insurance simply does not cover it. There were also huge time lapses in their treatment due to inability to pay for treatments not covered by their providers. They do not have the same opportunity for health as we do here. Of course the rich do and that is A okay with many people.

I know this is off topic, but I would wonder what kind of public outcry would occur if someone like Buffet or Gates did the same thing for men exclusively.... Probably a bevy of law suits founded in gender discrimination I'll bet


We are no where near as good as we could be, but if sick, I'll take my chances here.

This begs the question of what exactly do we expect of our healthcare system.

Back in the day when Tommy Douglas envisioned his ideas for universal healthcare, it was designed to keep people from losing their farms and homes to paying for dire health issues. He did not design his program to provide for each and every ailment that came down the pipe.

Today, I suspect that people want it to be all things to all people as a system that will extend lives far beyond what is realistic

Frankly I do not really care much about their systems or how they operate...I do care about the people I hear of who are bankrupt or have no opportunity to seek medical help including those on my FB wall.

Sorry to be the one to say it, but healthcare is not a right
 

Sal

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Same as in Canada.. Don't fool yourself into believing otherwise



I know this is off topic, but I would wonder what kind of public outcry would occur if someone like Buffet or Gates did the same thing for men exclusively.... Probably a bevy of law suits founded in gender discrimination I'll bet




This begs the question of what exactly do we expect of our healthcare system.

Back in the day when Tommy Douglas envisioned his ideas for universal healthcare, it was designed to keep people from losing their farms and homes to paying for dire health issues. He did not design his program to provide for each and every ailment that came down the pipe.

Today, I suspect that people want it to be all things to all people as a system that will extend lives far beyond what is realistic



Sorry to be the one to say it, but healthcare is not a right
okay so let me phrase it another way, I believe that in a caring society we support each other and provide health care for each and every individual. I believe it is the moral and ethical, humane, and caring thing to do. I believe it would not break anyone's bank, it is doable and it would help some people to understand what being part of the human race means. I know for most in the world it is all about money but they will reap their own misery.

I would end human suffering if I could, but the rich take care of the rich and can always seem to justify their greed and cruelty. Not my karma to deal with. :D
 

Tecumsehsbones

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I know this is off topic, but I would wonder what kind of public outcry would occur if someone like Buffet or Gates did the same thing for men exclusively.... Probably a bevy of law suits founded in gender discrimination I'll bet.

You mean like the billions spent in research on d ick-stiffeners and testicular cancer?

And cap? Men get breast cancer too. Not many, around 1% of all cases, but more than women get testicular cancer.

Male Breast Cancer Statistics, Symptoms, Signs, Facts, Causes and Treatment - MedicineNet
 

captain morgan

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Something to Consider:
Ontario Fact Sheet September 2013 & Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care - THE ESTIMATES, 2013-14 - Summary

Ontario (total) healthcare budget 2013 - 48,854,930,960
Ontario Population (2012) - 13,505,900
Ontario Labour Force - 7,357,000
Cost per working adult per year (after tax dollars) - $6,640.60

We still haven't contributed into education, infrastructure, etc.

BTW - The boomers are all set to retire in the next few years.. No more direct income but their reliance on the healthcare system system is set to increase.

Does this sound affordable?
 

Sal

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Something to Consider:
Ontario Fact Sheet September 2013 & Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care - THE ESTIMATES, 2013-14 - Summary

Ontario (total) healthcare budget 2013 - 48,854,930,960
Ontario Population (2012) - 13,505,900
Ontario Labour Force - 7,357,000
Cost per working adult per year (after tax dollars) - $6,640.60

We still haven't contributed into education, infrastructure, etc.

BTW - The boomers are all set to retire in the next few years.. No more direct income but their reliance on the healthcare system system is set to increase.

Does this sound affordable?
if we managed the system better, and if government was not so corrupt then yes, it is doable...in the mean time we have to continue to treat people for their illness...maybe if some of those with lots of money got a conscience they could donate to the hospitals...also when I was in our one hosptial this week, they were speaking about a shortage of wheel chairs...I will be making sure some money goes to St. Mary's for wheel chairs...if those who have give more, those who haven't will do better.
 

captain morgan

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if we managed the system better, and if government was not so corrupt then yes, it is doable...in the mean time we have to continue to treat people for their illness...maybe if some of those with lots of money got a conscience they could donate to the hospitals...also when I was in our one hosptial this week, they were speaking about a shortage of wheel chairs...I will be making sure some money goes to St. Mary's for wheel chairs...if those who have give more, those who haven't will do better.


That all depends on what level of service that society expects.

BTW - we still haven't touched on education, infrastructure or social services.

OPERATING: SUMMARY OF TOTAL INCLUDING CONSOLIDATION AND OTHER ADJUSTMENTS

Total Estimates - $123,269,721,363

Contribution per working adult - $16,755.43
 

EagleSmack

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Illegal immigrants get housing, welfare, and free medical here in Massachusetts.

Obama's aunt is one of them.