Is it necessary for cops to use lethal force against a guy with a knife?

[hunboldt]

Great - so why didn't the bus driver go on and have a heart-to-heart with the kid... He was only a past threat, right?

WAAAYYYYYYYY too much coffee, Captain Morgan....

According to witnesses the guy pulled the knife and ordered everyone off the streetcar.

and the Streetcar was then running late......bet he doesn't try THAT again..

Perhaps it's time we bought back the ol' Anglo Saxon 'Hue and Cry'.
Perhaps the incident will result in changes for the better. Insanity of the moment shouldn't be a death sentence.

 

[JLM]

WAAAYYYYYYYY too much coffee, Captain Morgan....

and the Streetcar was then running late......bet he doesn't try THAT again..

Perhaps it's time we bought back the ol' Anglo Saxon 'Hue and Cry'.
Perhaps the incident will result in changes for the better. Insanity of the moment shouldn't be a death sentence.

I think there is a slight misconception here by the forum genius and possibly some others is that because the kid was in the wrong and posed a threat at some point justifies killing him. Well, IT DOESN'T. Death is a terrible price to pay for a mistake or even an intentional wrong and should be avoided if at all possible. This can be accomplished by smart, calm people and pays dividends in the long run.

 

[hunboldt]

I think there is a slight misconception here by the forum genius and possibly some others is that because the kid was in the wrong and posed a threat at some point justifies killing him. Well, IT DOESN'T. Death is a terrible price to pay for a mistake or even an intentional wrong and should be avoided if at all possible. This can be accomplished by smart, calm people and pays dividends in the long run.

Have you, sir, NO sympathy for the sanctity of the transit schedule?

Seriously, the lad seems to have shown the odd behaviour that people who have taken multiple medications exhibit. I suspect that adulterated alcohol may have played a part, or drinking while taking prescription anti depressants.

time to return to the duty of citizen arrest and restraint . Perhaps Alfred the Great was right after all...

reserved.
hue and cry - Somewhat redundant, as hue means "shout, make an outcry"; hue and cry was a medieval law requiring that all citizens within earshot give chase to a fleeing criminal.
See also related terms for shout.

 

[B00Mer]

Here is some new footage of the shooting.

New footage reveals further details in Toronto streetcar shooting - The Globe and Mail

Hey, if someone comes at me with a knife.. I would shoot.. or hopefully have a bigger knife??

www.youtube.com/watch?v=W09ghiWskUk

 

[JLM]

Have you, sir, NO sympathy for the sanctity of the transit schedule?

Seriously, the lad seems to have shown the odd behaviour that people who have taken multiple medications exhibit. I suspect that adulterated alcohol may have played a part, or drinking while taking prescription anti depressants.

Yep, we've all done stupid things and often the younger the stupider, but death is a terrible price and should be avoided, if at all possible!

 

[Durry]

The best thing about the way it was handled this time is the message it sends out to others who may want to use a knife to threaten others, draw a knife and don't drop it when asked,,,, your history right now!!
This is an excellant deterant for others!!

If it would have been handled with kid gloves, then there would have been absolutely no deterance at all for others in the future because they will know that there is no risk in what they're doing and they will only get a slap on the wrist!!

I like the way it was handled, mainly for the message it sends and this kind of message will definitly prevent/reduce others from trying this.

 

[karrie]

The best thing about the way it was handled this time is the message it sends out to others who may want to use a knife to threaten others, draw a knife and don't drop it when asked,,,, your history right now!!
This is an excellant deterant for others!!

If it would have been handled with kid gloves, then there would have been absolutely no deterance at all for others in the future because they will know that there is no risk in what they're doing and they will only get a slap on the wrist!!

I like the way it was handled, mainly for the message it sends and this kind of message will definitly prevent/reduce others from trying this.

Which is why US states with the death penalty have such crazy low crime rates.

 

[hunboldt]

The best thing about the way it was handled this time is the message it sends out to others who may want to use a knife to threaten others, draw a knife and don't drop it when asked,,,, your history right now!!
This is an excellant deterant for others!!

If it would have been handled with kid gloves, then there would have been absolutely no deterance at all for others in the future because they will know that there is no risk in what they're doing and they will only get a slap on the wrist!!

I like the way it was handled, mainly for the message it sends and this kind of message will definitly prevent/reduce others from trying this.

May we assume that you will now shoot yourself for repeated spelling errors, thereby sending a message to all other posters?

I do see a case if the police had reason to believe that a hostage or hidden person was left on the streetcar...

 

[Durry]

May we assume that you will now shoot yourself for repeated spelling errors, thereby sending a message to all other posters?

Sorry about the spelling errors, I'm pecking away on my iPod on Strbks so I don't pay much attention to spelling, I just try to get my point accross!!

I guess I feel that, on a Forum, it's important to get your point accross and minor things like spelling is best left to people with small minds like yours!!

 

[captain morgan]

Of course no answer, because he didn't have to be arrested at that exact moment. He was alone on the bus, surrounded by armed police officers. He posed no threat that warranted pumping him full of lead, from what we see on the video.

Fine, wait 3 hours. Until the lunatic drops the knife, the length of time really has no bearing.

So, I'll I suppose it's a waste of time to ask you ta answer the question that you have evaded so many times now... I think that you understand that there is no practical answer that would support your position, hence your deliberate position in not providing a straight response.

There was a streetcar between the knife wielding guy and the police. If there was a distance of 25 feet or less, it was the police that established that since the kid was stationary inside the streetcar and they were approaching on foot.

Someone still has to go into that bus and deal with the lunatic.... It no longer matters if there is a bus in between them or not at that point

Hey, I think you are on to something.- I've been trying to convey that message (in a nice way) for years, but I don't think I've been penetrating.

Funny comment coming from the guy that was SJP's sidekick for so many years until he called you exactly what you are.

Musta burst your balloon pretty good when your idol washed his hands of you

From what I can see about this situation I think there was a good chance that once everyone had left the streetcar, the crisis was over. The kid probably should have just been left alone for a few minutes (while being carefully watched of course) and I think there was a good chance he'd have come to his senses on his own without someone trying to escalate the situation by confronting him and putting cuffs on him.

Thanks for the opinion Commissioner Gordon - I'll be sure to pass it along to Batman ASAP

 

[Durry]

Which is why US states with the death penalty have such crazy low crime rates.

Yes, you see it does work..

That's what we want to see,,,,results !!

 

[lone wolf]

Modern police work is profile and stereotype. I wonder who the potential mass murderers are?

 

[karrie]

Fine, wait 3 hours. Until the lunatic drops the knife, the length of time really has no bearing.

So, I'll I suppose it's a waste of time to ask you ta answer the question that you have evaded so many times now... I think that you understand that there is no practical answer that would support your position, hence your deliberate position in not providing a straight response.

You mean the one where you try to pretend that an unarmed civilian is multiple armed police officers? I don't think it warrants an answer because it has nothing to do with what police procedure is.

 

[captain morgan]

You mean the one where you try to pretend that an unarmed civilian is multiple armed police officers? I don't think it warrants an answer because it has nothing to do with what police procedure is.

Unarmed civilian?... Really? That's now your position that he was unarmed?

I'll remind you that you still can't answer the 'threat' question.... That leads to another issue; do you believe that there is any value in the lives of those police that you deem would not be exposed to a threat?

Apparently you're willing to play pretty fast and loose with the lives of those cops that had to deal with the fallout from this psycho. I'm guessing that the situation would be threatening enough that you wouldn't have one of your family members go into that 'unthreatening' situation, but it's A-OK for the cops I guess.

 

[JLM]

Which is why US states with the death penalty have such crazy low crime rates.

Or maybe high "getting caught rates"-

 

[SLM]

Someone still has to go into that bus and deal with the lunatic.... It no longer matters if there is a bus in between them or not at that point

Why does someone have to go onto the bus? Sometimes a skilled negotiator can talk someone into voluntarily exiting and putting down his weapon. There is also the potential option of gas. I'm not saying that had they tried either of those options, or possibly others that I'm not thinking of at the moment, it would have necessarily ended any differently. Perhaps in the end he still would be dead, but maybe not.

To my way of thinking, police are not just there to arrest people. They are brought in, and trained, to diffuse situations, to negotiate with those who may harm others or to harm themselves. And they are trained to do these things in various ways, not just with bullets.

Now, as I said before, all that goes out the window when and if the individual makes any movements that escalate the situation. And perhaps that is what happened, frankly we just don't know yet. But if he didn't, then yes they should have employed other tactics for dealing with this individual. At least they could have tried.

 

[JLM]

Funny comment coming from the guy that was SJP's sidekick for so many years until he called you exactly what you are.

Musta burst your balloon pretty good when your idol washed his hands of you



Thanks for the opinion Commissioner Gordon - I'll be sure to pass it along to Batman ASAP

You're hallucinating Capt. I was never a "side kick" of S.J.P. I did treat him civilly many times when our opinions differed until he started acting like an A$$hole. Don't ever get the idea that because I agree with you on something that I'm a side kick. I don't have too much time for militant little people!

Yes, you see it does work..

That's what we want to see,,,,results !!

I think her remark may have been a little "tongue in cheek", Durry.

 

[Angstrom]

In a police state, by all means, people are shot when they don't obey orders.

Thank god, my country, is NOT a police state.

Wrong!

 

[lone wolf]

You can ask Tim McLean's family how dangerous they are, I'm sure that they would have preferred if Vince Li had only cut up a seat or two.

Still have any questions on this?

Just one: Who T/F was still on the streetcar when the cop decided to go shooting gallery? Maybe the guy just shagged the shooter's girlfriend (in keeping with your tradition of ridicule in post)

 

[petros]

There was no need to shoot the dumbass.

Wrong!

Damn rights she's wrong.