The 'two founding races', the 'four founding churches', and our place in Canada

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Any links?
I was present at the meeting in New Denver when the West Bank chief was negotiating to include New Denver in their territory. Every time he stood to speak, he covered his right wrist with his left hand to cover his Rolex and he hid his Mercedes a few blocks from the meeting hall. I followed him in hopes of asking him some questions but he took off before I could catch up to him. He did state point blank that he wanted to move his people over to our valley because they were running out of room and he wanted to make room for western Canada's largest Wal Mart. He said he wanted to work with locals to build more businesses in New Denver to which one man shouted, "We don't want no Wal Marts here!"
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,150
9,431
113
Washington DC
and I went through the public system and heard diddly squat about the residential schools...... you realize that the basic core curriculum is the same for both public and separate...right?....... and that core curiculum is put together by the Province not the School Boards? So if you want to blame someone for not including something in the curriculum......blame the government.

Hell, I never heard of the residential schools either, and I was in one of them.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
What two races were they, Caucasoid and Mongoloid?

I didn't make the term up. It coems straight from Book I of the Report of the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism:

'We should point out here that the Commission will not examine cultures the question of the Indians and the Eskimos . Our terms of reference contain no allusion to Canada's native populations. They speak of "two founding races," namely Canadians of British and French origin, and "other ethnic groups," but mention neither the Indians nor the Eskimos. Since it is obvious that these two groups do not form part of the "founding races," as the phrase is used in the terms of reference, it would logically be necessary to include them under the heading "other ethnic groups ." Yet it is clear that the term "other ethnic groups" means those peoples of diverse origins who came to Canada during or after the founding of the Canadian state and that it does not include the first inhabitants of this country.'

There you have it.

Hell, I never heard of the residential schools either, and I was in one of them.

But in the US they referred to them as boarding schools, no?
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,150
9,431
113
Washington DC
I didn't make the term up. It coems straight from Book I of the Report of the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism:

'We should point out here that the Commission will not examine cultures the question of the Indians and the Eskimos . Our terms of reference contain no allusion to Canada's native populations. They speak of "two founding races," namely Canadians of British and French origin, and "other ethnic groups," but mention neither the Indians nor the Eskimos. Since it is obvious that these two groups do not form part of the "founding races," as the phrase is used in the terms of reference, it would logically be necessary to include them under the heading "other ethnic groups ." Yet it is clear that the term "other ethnic groups" means those peoples of diverse origins who came to Canada during or after the founding of the Canadian state and that it does not include the first inhabitants of this country.'

There you have it.



But in the US they referred to them as boarding schools, no?
Mostly, or "agricultural schools." Point is, while I was in Chilocco, I never learned anything about the system. I must have been fifteen or sixteen before it really dawned on me that normal public school was very different.
 

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
12,822
49
48
11
Aether Island
I didn't make the term up. It coems straight from Book I of the Report of the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism:

'We should point out here that the Commission will not examine cultures the question of the Indians and the Eskimos . Our terms of reference contain no allusion to Canada's native populations. They speak of "two founding races," namely Canadians of British and French origin, and "other ethnic groups," but mention neither the Indians nor the Eskimos. Since it is obvious that these two groups do not form part of the "founding races," as the phrase is used in the terms of reference, it would logically be necessary to include them under the heading "other ethnic groups ." Yet it is clear that the term "other ethnic groups" means those peoples of diverse origins who came to Canada during or after the founding of the Canadian state and that it does not include the first inhabitants of this country.'

There you have it.



But in the US they referred to them as boarding schools, no?

I understand biculturalism, bilingualism, and biracial. But, the French and English are the same race, especially after 1066 when the French seeded England.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,150
9,431
113
Washington DC
I understand biculturalism, bilingualism, and biracial. But, the French and English are the same race, especially after 1066 when the French seeded England.
Words change meanings over time, especially in English. As recently as the early 20th, "race" meant, effectively, nation. The English race, the Irish race, the German race, &c.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Words change meanings over time, especially in English. As recently as the early 20th, "race" meant, effectively, nation. The English race, the Irish race, the German race, &c.

The French version used the term 'peuple', or a people.

Either way though, it was clearly meant to exclude other races, however yu define the term, and indigenous peoples were clearly and explicitly excluded.
 

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
12,822
49
48
11
Aether Island
In genetics, the notion of race is discredited. There are no clear divisions among populations; there is continual gene flow. English is mistaken. Besides, the notion of founding races is ethnocentric at best. Apparenty, using the concept of "being found" , Europe wasn't founded until people from other continents discovered it.

Admittedly, modern Canada was developed through European settlement, first from France, then Britain. However, it has been steadily refined through settlement of peoples from across the globe and by an appreciation of First-Nation culture.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
In genetics, the notion of race is discredited. There are no clear divisions among populations; there is continual gene flow. English is mistaken. Besides, the notion of founding races is ethnocentric at best. Apparenty, using the concept of "being found" , Europe wasn't founded until people from other continents discovered it.

Admittedly, modern Canada was developed through European settlement, first from France, then Britain. However, it has been steadily refined through settlement of peoples from across the globe and by an appreciation of First-Nation culture.

Indigenous peoples didn't have a chance to learn from the Europeans like the Japanese did. Like the Japanese, the Indigenous peoples wanted to trade with the Europeans, learn from them, etc. Unlike the Japanese, the indigenous peoples were soon overrun and put in residential schools.

The most sickening part though is that just earlier this year, the Commissioner for Official Languages and the University of Ottawa wanted to commemorate the 50th anniversary Report of the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism. Did they not read the report? Racial, ethnic, and linguistic prejudice permeate its pages throughout, and we are to celebrate that?

Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism: 50 years later - Media releases and announcements | University of Ottawa

And they flaunt it with pride! do they not read what they profess to suport befroe supporting it?

Admittedly, modern Canada was developed through European settlement, first from France, then Britain. However, it has been steadily refined through settlement of peoples from across the globe and by an appreciation of First-Nation culture.


But that's no reason to then legislate specially privileges for us to the detriment of others.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
71
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Words change meanings over time, especially in English. As recently as the early 20th, "race" meant, effectively, nation. The English race, the Irish race, the German race, &c.
Nice. Well, I mean er um nice, but it's a bit like the difference between the Urban Dictionary's definition and something like the Oxford Dictionary's definition. Specifically, there is one human race since evolution pretty much decided to give one species its own special ability (intelligence). lol There are phenotypes of humans, though, and loads of them, but only 5 general ones.

I've just been reading (some of these are a couple years old):

Canada’s Aboriginal education crisis [ Column] | Windspeaker - AMMSA: Indigenous news, issues and culture.

Native schools funding falls short, budget critics say - Canada - CBC News

Native school conditions in Canada are shocking: panel chair - The Globe and Mail

http://www.cfs-fcee.ca/html/english/research/factsheets/201211-Factsheet-Abo-en.pdf

Aboriginal students: An education underclass - Canada - Macleans.ca

etc. etc. and yet;

First Nations education not underfunded, figures suggest - Politics - CBC News
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,150
9,431
113
Washington DC
Nice. Well, I mean er um nice, but it's a bit like the difference between the Urban Dictionary's definition and something like the Oxford Dictionary's definition. Specifically, there is one human race since evolution pretty much decided to give one species its own special ability (intelligence). lol There are phenotypes of humans, though, and loads of them, but only 5 general ones.

Fine. I don't know what you're arguing about. What I said about usage, and particularly the usage of "race" is a fact. If you want to turn it into a moral crusade, be my guest.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
There is no shortage of taxpayer money going into education. Indigenous or otherwise. It is simply a matter of too many fingers taking a slice of the pie with little trickling down to the student level.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
There is no shortage of taxpayer money going into education. Indigenous or otherwise. It is simply a matter of too many fingers taking a slice of the pie with little trickling down to the student level.
Are you saying that everybody involved in education are conservatives who bought into Raygunomics?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Nice. Well, I mean er um nice, but it's a bit like the difference between the Urban Dictionary's definition and something like the Oxford Dictionary's definition. Specifically, there is one human race since evolution pretty much decided to give one species its own special ability (intelligence). lol There are phenotypes of humans, though, and loads of them, but only 5 general ones.

I've just been reading (some of these are a couple years old):

Canada’s Aboriginal education crisis [ Column] | Windspeaker - AMMSA: Indigenous news, issues and culture.

Native schools funding falls short, budget critics say - Canada - CBC News

Native school conditions in Canada are shocking: panel chair - The Globe and Mail

http://www.cfs-fcee.ca/html/english/research/factsheets/201211-Factsheet-Abo-en.pdf

Aboriginal students: An education underclass - Canada - Macleans.ca

etc. etc. and yet;

First Nations education not underfunded, figures suggest - Politics - CBC News

As for educaiton, indeed indigenous ecducation is underfunded. As for the issue of race, even the Oxford dictionary includes multiple definitions, including race as synonymous with 'a people' or 'a nation'. That is the use of the B&B Commission report. That still does not change the fact that in the end, however they meant it, they clearly meant for the 'two founding races' to be at the top fo the pecking order.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
When are we, the member of the 'two founding races', and the members of the 'four founding churches', prepared to sacrifice our unjustly acquired privileges for the sake of justice. As Jesus says:


We continue to look down on indigenous peoples as drunken Indians and other such stereotypes, continue to block UN investigators from entering Canada to inquire on the situation on reserves, and the list goes on.

Why are we so intent on holding on to our privileges when we know the blood that was shed for this (in the residential schools alone, 50,000 dead under their care is now considered a highly conservative estimate, and it was not ancient history; people alive today witnesses of these murders).

What will it take?

I am intent on holding onto my privileges because I did nothing wrong, and handing over my life/belongings/wealth, won't fix the past.

I am a mutt anglo/franco Canadian Catholic. I do not look down on natives as drunken Indians. I push for open investigations. I push for open discourse. Our current government has thrown the churches under the bus by apologizing for the government's role in contracting them to run the residential schools, and turned the truth and reconciliation committee loose to find what fault lies with said churches. Of course the churches aren't talking. It was a governmental power play to wash their hands of guilt, and technically, the churches CAN'T apologize for anything until the truth and reconciliation committee TELLS them what they are to apologize for. Neat hey?

My only hope for the First Nations people of Canada is that they not let the political bull continue to mire them in historical muck, that they end their segregation, and continue to take their place in Canadian society as neighbours, family, and friends.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
71
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Fine. I don't know what you're arguing about. What I said about usage, and particularly the usage of "race" is a fact. If you want to turn it into a moral crusade, be my guest.
Not arguing.

As for educaiton, indeed indigenous ecducation is underfunded.
It does seem that way.
As for the issue of race, even the Oxford dictionary includes multiple definitions, including race as synonymous with 'a people' or 'a nation'. That is the use of the B&B Commission report.
Yeah, I can call a tomato a veggie, too, but the fact is that a tomato is a berry. Berries are fruit.
That still does not change the fact that in the end, however they meant it, they clearly meant for the 'two founding races' to be at the top fo the pecking order.
Yep.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
You sound disappointed about their piss poor job.

For those who deny the residential school system, read up on Kevin Annett:

Hidden from History: The Canadian Holocaust

He is an ex-minister of the United Church who was defrocked when he started to expose more recent crimes of the United Church and eventually even got kicked out of the Church. But make no mistake about it, he's just as critical of all of the four founding churches and the government of Canada.

2 Churches- Roman Catholic and Protestant.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
2 Churches- Roman Catholic and Protestant.

To be fair, no Protestant Church participated in the residential school system other than the Anglican, Presbiterian, and United Churches specifically.

Heck, the Quakers, Menonites, Dukhobors, and plenty of others are Protestant too.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
So, what you're saying is that absolutely no Protestant Churches participated other than the three main ones in NorAm... Is that about right?

In North America, I don't know. In Canada, that is exactly correct. the Government of Canada had established agreements specifically with the Catholic, Anglican, Presbiterian, and United Churches. It can be clearly defined.