9.5 million litres of toxic waste spills in Northern Alberta

[karrie]

Gotta link or something?



What do you mean?

Nope, just lived in the area for four years, had native relatives who traveled up to hunt and talked about their friends, had friends who'd lived in Assumption as teachers and talked about life there, had a sister in Zama who talked about the people she knew, and then once I moved to Edmonton, met a couple from the Ft.Vermillion area, and a Young Dene man who was in politics, and visited with them on occasion.

real life experience tells me tons

 

[captain morgan]

Gotcha.

Now, all we have to understand is what will the effects be on those hunting opportunities that those folks rely on for subsistence.

I have many years direct experience in p/l failure, remediation, clean up and monitoring.... You?

 

[L Gilbert]

Well, as of 2010 some Dene were eating wild meat and I doubt they've changed eating habits: http://www.fortnelsonchamber.com/files/Office_Documents/CABIN_Socio_Issues_APPENDIX_7A.pdf

Here's something a bit more current: http://kinincommon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/ReconnectingToTheLand_sm.pdf

 

[karrie]

Gotcha.

Now, all we have to understand is what will the effects be on those hunting opportunities that those folks rely on for subsistence.

I have many years direct experience in p/l failure, remediation, clean up and monitoring.... You?

I'm willing to bet the Dene would like to know what the effects will be as well, rather than being told to shut up because they're natives, hey?

Me, I'm a stay at home mom and make no indications otherwise. I state very clearly where my experience with these issues comes from... dumbass oil patch hands I know using produced water as soil sterilant for example, and a lifetime of the men in my family working the patch and sharing their knowledge.

 

[Zipperfish]

They spilled it. They should clean it up. Doesn't seem like a stretch to me. It wasn't their land to taint. Others use it.

I'm surprised it's even an issue.

 

[captain morgan]

I'm willing to bet the Dene would like to know what the effects will be as well, rather than being told to shut up because they're natives, hey?

So, that's how you interpret my commentary then?... 'The natives ought to shut their pie-holes for asking the questions?'.

Nice... Hey, you should call me racist too - that's always a great way to end the discussion

Probably a good idea to cut my participation in this thread right here.

Me, I'm a stay at home mom and make no indications otherwise. I state very clearly where my experience with these issues comes from... dumbass oil patch hands I know using produced water as soil sterilant for example, and a lifetime of the men in my family working the patch and sharing their knowledge.

Everyone has a skill set, background and opinion. If you don't like that kind of input, then just say so and stick with speculation... It should be an exceptionally productive conversation among those that think on parallel lines.

 

[karrie]

So, that's how you interpret my commentary then?... 'The natives ought to shut their pie-holes for asking the questions?'.

Nice... Hey, you should call me racist too - that's always a great way to end the discussion

Probably a good idea to cut my participation in this thread right here.

.

I never claimed your reason for wanting them to shut up was race based. You seem to be of the opinion that if they use petroleum, they need to not question the industry.

But hey, if you want to back out of the discussion, have at 'er, as they say.

Everyone has a skill set, background and opinion. If you don't like that kind of input, then just say so and stick with speculation... It should be an exceptionally productive conversation among those that think on parallel lines.

Hey, I'm always willing to listen to what experts in a field have to say, if they're actually addressing what's going on.

But with this discussion, I'm reading Apache say '9.5 million litres of brine', and then reading you saying 'it's just a bit of hydrocarbon'. It's hard to reconcile those two 'facts'. Who do I believe in this situation? You, or the company that had the spill?

 

[captain morgan]

I never claimed your reason for wanting them to shut up was race based. You seem to be of the opinion that if they use petroleum, they need to not question the industry.

Then don't hand me this horse sh*t about 'traditional hunting/trapping'... High powered rifles, lots of mechanized toys, etc... .If the issue is hunting territory on Crown lands, then open up adjacent lands where 'the Earth isn't salted'

But hey, if you want to back out of the discussion, have at 'er, as they say.

Generally that's what I do when someone only has the race card left to play.

 

[karrie]

Then don't hand me this horse sh*t about 'traditional hunting/trapping'... High powered rifles, lots of mechanized toys, etc... .If the issue is hunting territory on Crown lands, then open up adjacent lands where 'the Earth isn't salted'



Generally that's what I do when someone only has the race card left to play.

It's their hunting territory, traditionally and currently. They rely heavily on it. What part of that is horse **** exactly?

 

[captain morgan]

But with this discussion, I'm reading Apache say '9.5 million litres of brine', and then reading you saying 'it's just a bit of hydrocarbon'. It's hard to reconcile those two 'facts'. Who do I believe in this situation? You, or the company that had the spill?

' A bit of hydrocarbon'... Really?

Nice bit 'o drama there... Right up there with 'the Earth is now salted and forever sterile'

FYI - I really don't care who you choose to believe or seek information from. Apache, the Dene, rig pigs, ERCB, Suzuki or info scrawled on a bathroom wall.

You have your position and I have mine... Let's leave it at that

 

[karrie]

no different than when someone does their own oil change and pours the waste oil on the grass or uses a septic field in a community.

' A bit of hydrocarbon'... Really?

Nice bit 'o drama there... Right up there with 'the Earth is now salted and forever sterile'

Yes really, no different than when someone dumps the oil from their truck you said.

I said they salted it.... plain and simple. And they did. They've said as much. How is that exaggeration exactly?

 

[captain morgan]

Yes really, no different than when someone dumps the oil from their truck you said.

And also qualified it with this:

Multiply that number by all the vehicles driving the roads over the last 100 years.... The planet didn't esplode then, so why now?

PS - Multiply the number of cars on the roads in NorAm by the number that leak oil and tranny fluid in addition to the number of people that spread it on the grass, along with the fluids that leak from accidents on a daily basis and you'll probably have a MASSIVE spill as well over a bigger area EACH AND EVERY DAY.

Opps

I said they salted it.... plain and simple. And they did. They've said as much. How is that exaggeration exactly?

Yep.... 6 weeks from now, Zama Lake will look exactly like this:

 

[karrie]

Yep.... 6 weeks from now, Zama Lake will look exactly like this:

You don't know what it will look like in six weeks and neither do I. But the salt is bound to be a bad thing for the environment given that one of the 'offlabel' purposes I've seen it put to use is as a soil sterilant... now multiply that by the number of oil spills.

 

[captain morgan]

You don't know what it will look like in six weeks and neither do I. But the salt is bound to be a bad thing for the environment given that one of the 'offlabel' purposes I've seen it put to use is as a soil sterilant... now multiply that by the number of oil spills.

Actually, I do know what it will look like... Direct experience gives me that advantage.

On the topic of those men you know that used the brine as a soil sterilant... Lemme ask you - have all the trees in their yard wilted and died?... The grass?... How about their neighbour's properties?... Turned into an apocalyptic wasteland yet?

Yeah, thought not

 

[karrie]

Actually, I do know what it will look like... Direct experience gives me that advantage.

On the topic of those men you know that used the brine as a soil sterilant... Lemme ask you - have all the trees in their yard wilted and died?... The grass?... How about their neighbour's properties?... Turned into an apocalyptic wasteland yet?

Yeah, thought not

5 gallons into soil, versus 9.5 million litres into muskeg. Really? I know I'm the housewife and the one accused of exaggerating here, but really?

 

[petros]

the Dene in that area are much more isolated than most bands, and still rely heavily on hunting, fishing, and trapping, to survive.

And nice juicy cheques from oil and gas companies.

 

[karrie]

And nice juicy cheques from oil and gas companies.

And?

 

[petros]

Life is good.

 

[captain morgan]

5 gallons into soil, versus 9.5 million litres into muskeg. Really? I know I'm the housewife and the one accused of exaggerating here, but really?

So, the trees aren't dead and the birds still fly through the neighbourhood?.... Even after salting the Earth and scorching the landscape?

 

[karrie]

So, the trees aren't dead and the birds still fly through the neighbourhood?.... Even after salting the Earth and scorching the landscape?

The area they salted is dead. How big an area does 9.5 million litres cover in muskeg?