Mulcair supports East / West pipeline

[Nuggler]

The great leader "mulled" it in the Globe and Mail a few months back.

Let's check this out a few months from now. My opinion is he will tell us Easterners to go get stuffed.

 

[JamesBondo]

The reason Mulcair supports the east west oil pipeline is because if his party forms the Government he will then be able to force a made in Canada Oil price policy.

This will be particularity critical if the Northern Gateway Pipeline does not get built or the XL line.
With the east west pipeline in place, production of the Oil Sands will be ramped up to meet demand.
If the NDP form Government, they will be able to control the price of oil flowing east, thereby satisfying their eastern voting base.
With ramped up oil production, and no options to sell their oil elsewhere, the oil companies will be forced to produce oil for the easterners at a discounted rate.

I doubt that many people give a **** about what Mulcair supports. He is irrelevant.

 

[Durry]

Well said! We should not be selling raw materials such as crude or logs to other nations. That is exporting Canadian jobs. We should be adding value to our resources, refining all of our crude in this country and proving finished wood products for export.

Add value,,, hahaha, what a joke.!!'
Whenever we add value to most of our resources the end product becomes so expensive, nobody will buy the end product. For instance the easterners can't even assemble autos efficiently, import taxes are added to imported Vehicles to protect and maintain the high cost of Canadian made Vehicles.

How much wood manufacturing do you see going on in Canada? It keeps getting less because of the high cost of manufacturing in Canada. The end products manufactured in Canada becomes so expensive, it's cheaper to buy the same products as imports.

The same goes for refining oil products. It's easy to say that the oil should be refined in Canada. But in reality, nobody wants a refinery in their back yard. Take BC for instance, they don't even want a pipeline to be built in BC, how can you expect to build a refinery in BC. Refineries need pipelines, power lines, roads etc etc to service them. No pipelines, no refineries !! Furthermore it's about 20% cheaper to build a refinery in Texas and about 20% less to operate a refinery in Texas than it is in Canada. You only have to go to the US to buy gasoline to realize its cheaper there.

So why would the Americans, or anyone else for that matter, buy expensive refined products from Canada? The Americans can build a refinery in Texas, get their crude from numerous sources and then supply their markets at prices far below what Canada can supply the market place.

I think before you and dumb grumpy go flapping your jaws about what should be done with our raw products, you should learn some basic business economics first.

 

[Nuggler]

Add value,,, hahaha, what a joke.!!'
Whenever we add value to most of our resources the end product becomes so expensive, nobody will buy the end product. For instance the easterners can't even assemble autos efficiently, import taxes are added to imported Vehicles to protect and maintain the high cost of Canadian made Vehicles.

How much wood manufacturing do you see going on in Canada? It keeps getting less because of the high cost of manufacturing in Canada. The end products manufactured in Canada becomes so expensive, it's cheaper to buy the same products as imports.

The same goes for refining oil products. It's easy to say that the oil should be refined in Canada. But in reality, nobody wants a refinery in their back yard. Take BC for instance, they don't even want a pipeline to be built in BC, how can you expect to build a refinery in BC. Refineries need pipelines, power lines, roads etc etc to service them. No pipelines, no refineries !! Furthermore it's about 20% cheaper to build a refinery in Texas and about 20% less to operate a refinery in Texas than it is in Canada. You only have to go to the US to buy gasoline to realize its cheaper there.

So why would the Americans, or anyone else for that matter, buy expensive refined products from Canada? The Americans can build a refinery in Texas, get their crude from numerous sources and then supply their markets at prices far below what Canada can supply the market place.

I think before you and dumb grumpy go flapping your jaws about what should be done with our raw products, you should learn some basic business economics first.

It's them pesky unions..............again..............Jesus H Christ............thought the great leader had that all sorted out.

NO strikes

No money

No nothing

NO jobs

No manufacturing

nononononoooonononoononononooono................................................no.

 

[Durry]

..lol..

 

[Timetrvlr]

Add value,,, hahaha, what a joke.!!'
Whenever we add value to most of our resources the end product becomes so expensive, nobody will buy the end product.

In my limited experience, that's simply not true. One local Indo-Canadian entrepreneur that owned a small sawmill began manufacturing added-value engineered wood trusses that he sold to Indian contacts. He made a fortune doing that before he died. Another local entrepreneur buys waste sawdust from the mills and pressure forms them into wood pellets for pellet burner stoves. Then he secured contracts with German power plant operators. Now he exports thousands of tons of pellets to Germany to be used as a substitute for coal in their power plants. Innovative thinking on the part of entrepreneurs can sell added-value products around the world.

 

[Simple Man]

Add value,,, hahaha, what a joke.!!'
Whenever we add value to most of our resources the end product becomes so expensive, nobody will buy the end product. For instance the easterners can't even assemble autos efficiently, import taxes are added to imported Vehicles to protect and maintain the high cost of Canadian made Vehicles.

How much wood manufacturing do you see going on in Canada? It keeps getting less because of the high cost of manufacturing in Canada. The end products manufactured in Canada becomes so expensive, it's cheaper to buy the same products as imports.

The same goes for refining oil products. It's easy to say that the oil should be refined in Canada. But in reality, nobody wants a refinery in their back yard. Take BC for instance, they don't even want a pipeline to be built in BC, how can you expect to build a refinery in BC. Refineries need pipelines, power lines, roads etc etc to service them. No pipelines, no refineries !! Furthermore it's about 20% cheaper to build a refinery in Texas and about 20% less to operate a refinery in Texas than it is in Canada. You only have to go to the US to buy gasoline to realize its cheaper there.

So why would the Americans, or anyone else for that matter, buy expensive refined products from Canada? The Americans can build a refinery in Texas, get their crude from numerous sources and then supply their markets at prices far below what Canada can supply the market place.

I think before you and dumb grumpy go flapping your jaws about what should be done with our raw products, you should learn some basic business economics first.

So, assuming that there are admittedly few finished products that we could bring to global market competitively, what is the problem from a basic perspective?

Is it that we, as Canadians, expect too much in wage, and, posses a sense of entitlement regarding the ability to buy the most for the least with no regard or qualms over the "real" price of the goods were a more comprehensive view of the process of getting, say, an ipod into my hand? There are many factors in getting any product to market when viewed from a raw material standpoint yes? Do basic business economics allow for the true price of a given product considering that much of what is produced is ultimately garbage or in need of "recycling"?

It's so confusing. Does our expectation / desire for "cheap stuff" trump our expectation of a fair living wage and a reasonable chance of a secure retirement?

Does our unconscionable consumerism warrant ultimately that we are doomed to never being willing or able to afford products made here at home?

It almost sounds as though basic business economics are part of the problem ultimately. Were a product / service / technology recognized for it's worth in raw materials and the price of procurement of the materials never forgotten...where would we be then I wonder? Maybe I'd have one nutcracker in my drawer that actually worked well and that I expected to last forever rather that the four pairs that don't work at all and that I don't throw out only because there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with them....except that they are crap in design and manufacture....but, they are dirt cheap.

If we are willing to make low balling the prime factor in everything except income is there room for a fair wage from a global view or will there always be those that break their backs for nothing so that I can be assured of plenty of spare digitizers for my ipod in the event that perhaps I should ever crack the screen.

Totally off topic but the thread led me here....sorry..lol..

 

[Ron in Regina]

The reason Mulcair supports the east west oil pipeline is because if his party forms the Government he will then be able to force a made in Canada Oil price policy.

This will be particularity critical if the Northern Gateway Pipeline does not get built or the XL line.
With the east west pipeline in place, production of the Oil Sands will be ramped up to meet demand.
If the NDP form Government, they will be able to control the price of oil flowing east, thereby satisfying their eastern voting base.
With ramped up oil production, and no options to sell their oil elsewhere, the oil companies will be forced to produce oil for the easterners at a discounted rate.

Uhmmm, no.

Just can't happen. That option doesn't exist any longer. I think it's buried
in the NAFTA agreement initially between the US & Canada (the US tried
to include the same agreement when Mexico was brought into the fold &
was told to 'get bent' so it was dropped for Mexico) where oil can NOT be
sold in Canada domestically for less than it is sold to the US, & oil (on a %'age
basis) exports can NOT be decreased to the US unless it is decreased by
the same %'age of use domestically in Canada.

The agreement can not be broken unless both parties (the US & Canada)
both agree to dump that portion of the agreement, and I really can't see
that happening, as that would never be beneficial to both parties.

Just say'n....so perhaps Mulcair's proposal is mearly political for the target
audience of the uninformed....or maybe it's something else, but it's not to
be able to sell oil (or its byproducts) to Eastern Canada for any less than
what it sells the same to the USA.

 

[Machjo]

Uhmmm, no.

Just can't happen. That option doesn't exist any longer. I think it's buried
in the NAFTA agreement initially between the US & Canada (the US tried
to include the same agreement when Mexico was brought into the fold &
was told to 'get bent' so it was dropped for Mexico) where oil can NOT be
sold in Canada domestically for less than it is sold to the US, & oil (on a %'age
basis) exports can NOT be decreased to the US unless it is decreased by
the same %'age of use domestically in Canada.

The agreement can not be broken unless both parties (the US & Canada)
both agree to dump that portion of the agreement, and I really can't see
that happening, as that would never be beneficial to both parties.

Just say'n....so perhaps Mulcair's proposal is mearly political for the target
audience of the uninformed....or maybe it's something else, but it's not to
be able to sell oil (or its byproducts) to Eastern Canada for any less than
what it sells the same to the USA.

I could be wrong, but I do question Mulcair's commitment to free trade in principle. I like some ideas that stem from the NDP, buty I'm also very pro free trade, at leat in principle anyway.

 

[Ron in Regina]

I could be wrong, but I do question Mulcair's commitment to free trade in principle. I like some ideas that stem from the NDP, buty I'm also very pro free trade, at leat in principle anyway.

Dude's commitment to Free Trade is irrelevant, unless both parties (the initial NAFTA
agreement) both agree to dump something from it....it just isn't going to happen.

 

[Machjo]

Dude's commitment to Free Trade is irrelevant, unless both parties (the initial NAFTA
agreement) both agree to dump something from it....it just isn't going to happen.

If a majority of parliamentarians should wish to rescind any free trade agreement, it could be done. Obviously it means the other party's obligations are rescinded too. In the end, though, free trade has more plusses than minuses for all parties involved.

 

[captain morgan]

Uhmmm, no.

Just can't happen. That option doesn't exist any longer. I think it's buried
in the NAFTA agreement initially between the US & Canada (the US tried
to include the same agreement when Mexico was brought into the fold &
was told to 'get bent' so it was dropped for Mexico) where oil can NOT be
sold in Canada domestically for less than it is sold to the US, & oil (on a %'age
basis) exports can NOT be decreased to the US unless it is decreased by
the same %'age of use domestically in Canada.

The agreement can not be broken unless both parties (the US & Canada)
both agree to dump that portion of the agreement, and I really can't see
that happening, as that would never be beneficial to both parties.

Just say'n....so perhaps Mulcair's proposal is mearly political for the target
audience of the uninformed....or maybe it's something else, but it's not to
be able to sell oil (or its byproducts) to Eastern Canada for any less than
what it sells the same to the USA.

I don't know how much sense that Makes Ron.... For an arrangement like that to exist, a measured/calculated volume would also apply directly to increase in imports to the US.. KXL would have violated that basic premise in bringing greater volumes to the table.

Also, the mere threat of Northern Gateway would have been met with a NAFTA challenge.

Lastly, both Canada and the USA have violated this agreement on many occassions... Kinda makes you wonder if the agreement has any merit and strength to begin with.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either, to be honest.

Mexico signed in after Canada did, and wouldn't sign in if the
same conditions applied to Mexico that Canada agree'd to.
Parts of NAFTA Chapter 6 where dropped for Mexico.

Read through Chapter 6, Article 605 (it's not that long) and see
what your interpretation of it is. NAFTA - Chapter 6

 

[Durry]

I don't think the NDP have ever been supportive of NAFTA.
Remember the NDP base is Quebec and I don't see Quebec as free traders.

In the next election, all three parties could easily be tied in Poll ratings, so it could be a crap shoot on who gets to be the next PM!!

It's so confusing. Does our expectation / desire for "cheap stuff" trump our expectation of a fair living wage and a reasonable chance of a secure retirement?

Does our unconscionable consumerism warrant ultimately that we are doomed to never being willing or able to afford products made here at home?
T..

It's not confusing at all.
You sound just like the people of Greece a few years ago, would you like to be in their boots today??

 

[lone wolf]

Do you remember from whence NDP hailed?

 

[Durry]

Do you remember from whence NDP hailed?

Hail usually comes from the sky lone w.

 

[Liberalman]

The reason Mulcair supports the east west oil pipeline is because if his party forms the Government he will then be able to force a made in Canada Oil price policy.

This will be particularity critical if the Northern Gateway Pipeline does not get built or the XL line.
With the east west pipeline in place, production of the Oil Sands will be ramped up to meet demand.
If the NDP form Government, they will be able to control the price of oil flowing east, thereby satisfying their eastern voting base.
With ramped up oil production, and no options to sell their oil elsewhere, the oil companies will be forced to produce oil for the easterners at a discounted rate.

What's wrong with Made in Canada?

 

[Durry]

What's wrong with Made in Canada?

You have understanding of business economics, do you?
Do you understand what exporting does to a country?

 

[Liberalman]

You have understanding of business economics, do you?
Do you understand what exporting does to a country?

Do you not have an understanding of exporting jobs out of a country and the decreased buying power?

 

[Durry]

Do you not have an understanding of exporting jobs out of a country and the decreased buying power?

Suggest you go back to school little man and learn something about micro and macro economics!!
In the meantime don't bother me with your elementary questions!!