Is Welfare The Government’s Fault?

[Sal]

I also wish there was a way to increase the money given to woman on Mother's Allowance along with an incentive program so that more babies aren't produced as a meal ticket for mum. I just think some of those kids suffer in horrible ways and it isn't fair. So some kind of payout system or bonus system for getting off of the dead end road. And if there is alcoholism and drug abuse then they receive their cheques at the end of a mandatory help session.

 

[damngrumpy]

That in theory is one thing actual practice, it is ill advised and presents more problems
than solutions. First everyone gets painted with the same brush in these cases and the
problems get sorted out later.
In the meantime some lose their meager homes. now you have homeless to deal with.
Some enter into the life of crime and property crime at that which produces unsafe
streets for the average citizen.
Some are forced to the food banks and other agencies and more and more people put
legitimate volunteer agencies under undo pressure.
The result? Social unrest and it ends up costing agencies and government agencies
millions more in the long run. The only remedy ends up, You guessed it Welfare.
Some are better off on welfare and its cheaper for you and I. How so? Crime will
increase and job training for some people is a bigger waste of money than welfare.
Can you imagine finding a job or a training program for some of the people you see on TV from
the Lower East Side of Vancouver? This is rhetoric and headline grabbing as for real
solution with value? Not so much.

 

[SLM]

- Naturally, this crap thread went right to the top of silobreaker while my thread on the fire fighters union rip offs wasn`t even included there. I wonder what lefty weasel is manning the silobreaker site today.

Oh my goodness! Could you sound any more pathetic and whiny?

I'd have to agree with you....

Having been stuck on the system while fighting to get Workers Compensation, then again for ODSP, I have had opportunity to see some career welfare folk at their finest. I suggest reinstating home visits. You'd probably be amazed at the number of addresses that are vacant lots and abandoned buildings.

My sis-in-law does intake for Ontario Works (Welfare), there are stories I've heard believe me. But then again there are other stories where the system, and some of the people who work there and just don't give a damn, really just screws people over. There are great big gaping holes where those who know how can play the system easy, then there are some areas where the rules and regs are so rigid that someone who is legitimately in need can't get the help they need.

Calm down you are going to give yourself a stroke, try a nice cup of green tea, a lotus yoga position and maybe a few tokes. You will feel so much more relaxed, and happier and loving. Peace TBall.

LOL. That I would pay good money to see!

 

[china]

Is Welfare The Government’s Fault?
]
Yes , It is government's fault .They should stop paying money to those bums and use them to do some public work in the community .(sweeping streets is a good beginning ) . Work is dignity .

 

[lone wolf]

Is Welfare The Government’s Fault?
]
Yes , It is government's fault .They should stop paying money to those bums and use them to do some public work in the community .(sweeping streets is a good beginning ) . Work is dignity .

It's not as black-and-white as your tarred brush thinks. Too often Welfare is the waiting area for bureacracy to shuffle its feet before filing someone into long-term disability support.

 

[taxslave]

I consider all government jobs as high paid welfare.

 

[petros]

Welfare goes right back into the economy and IS SUPPOSED to come from resources not taxes.

 

[SLM]

It's not as black-and-white as your tarred brush thinks. Too often Welfare is the waiting area for bureacracy to shuffle its feet before filing someone into long-term disability support.

Of course it isn't but why let that get in the way of defining something based on the lowest common denominator within any group. I mean c'mon, that's how we keep stigma and stereotypes alive dammit!

 

[Serryah]

Welfare's good, if used properly. Unfortunately too many abuse it and make it a generational thing. Around here, Amherst NS has the reputation not only for their number of teenage moms, but how those same teen moms are set up by their mothers (who were set up by their moms, etc) to get pregnant to either get money from the dad, or suck off the Welfare t i t. It's almost like an apprenticeship for some families.

And then there's the welfare people in every community who refuse to get a job for whatever reason but spend their checks on drugs.

And so on and so on.

Honestly it all burns my butt and the entire system, to me, needs to be overhauled. I'm all for people being on it legitimately for whatever reasons so long as they have reasons, provable reasons. If you don't, if you can clearly work but are just too f'n lazy to, then there should be some sort of punishment for it. And maybe throwing in the wages that would be earned once that person is finally working, to be planned out so they pay back some of what they stole from the rest of us.


(So Teddy, that too liberal or does something need to be changed? )

 

[Walter]

Welfare goes right back into the economy and IS SUPPOSED to come from resources not taxes.

Which resources?

 

[captain morgan]

I also think that welfare recipients should have to perform a service and actually do something beneficial for the public in exchange for the welfare. My dad told me a couple times that Forestry used to scoot into the bars and "recruit" welfare people to fight fires and help with other gov't duties, for instance.

The forestry example is really great. I'll wager that there are a myriad of things that could be applied to an informal welfare workforce.. Hell, kick-in to buy them some basics like steel toes, a hard hat and other necessary paraphernalia and get them on the road to some training for something more meaningful.

As Serryah pointed-out, those individuals that leverage the system to an advantage cast a pall over everyone, and more so, one might argue that they are depleting the fund and impacting people that really do need the service

 

[Sal]

It is hard to sort out the people who are mentally ill and those who are faking and those who think there is nothing wrong with them but in actuality they do not play nice in the sandbox. For people who supervise and need to get a job done in a timely manner, babysitting workers who have issues is not something they can do. From that stand point it is cheaper to pay them to stay away.

 

[captain morgan]

It is hard to sort out the people who are mentally ill and those who are faking and those who think there is nothing wrong with them but in actuality they do not play nice in the sandbox. For people who supervise and need to get a job done in a timely manner, babysitting workers who have issues is not something they can do. From that stand point it is cheaper to pay them to stay away.

That is a harsh reality that you paint, but nonetheless, it's very true. That said, I have to wonder about how many of those folks actually seek assistance through welfare to begin with?

 

[Machjo]

Is Welfare The Government’s Fault?

Ontario Progressive Conservative leader Tim Hudak wants to cut welfare off of people that have fallen on hard times as a solution of the province’s cash shortfall.

The government is supposed to help create jobs by making it favourable for businesses to set up and run their companies and employ people when the business moves away for cheaper pastures because of government’s greed then they should be responsible for unemployed people that have fallen on hard times.

Our economy runs as a big supply chain and when a small link breaks then the whole engine slows down and cost more to get back to running efficiently.

We pay taxes to the government to keep us out of harm’s way and give us all a better lifestyle and the government sees the whole picture and is supposed to act accordingly to make sure it’s smooth sailing with minimal surprises and every so often there is an oddball like Tim Hudak who means well and has good intentions that wants to throw a monkey wrench into system and start the process all over.

Is welfare the government’s fault? I would say yes.

What do you think?
.
.

Hard to say. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's all the government's fault. Often the individual is at least party at fault too.

That said, I could see conditions to welfare, such as compulsory skills training, and instead of giving money, how about giving room and board directly.

That is a harsh reality that you paint, but nonetheless, it's very true. That said, I have to wonder about how many of those folks actually seek assistance through welfare to begin with?

I remember a study in Sweden some years back. In spite of a generous social safety net, some people still ended up on the street. There were various psychological, social, and other factors involved. Among them, being too proud to ask for help, mental illness, or ignorance of the help available. Simply having a social safety net obviously is not a panacea.

 

[Sal]

That is a harsh reality that you paint, but nonetheless, it's very true. That said, I have to wonder about how many of those folks actually seek assistance through welfare to begin with?

Agreed.

For a while I was working with a non profit company in their employment division. Another harsh reality is when the economy is depressed such as our has been for the past six or so years, employers can be extremely picky about who they want to employ.

So if the job requires a grade 12 level, they can hire a college grad who is polished and eager to work until he drops dead. Or is he going to hire Fred, who has a slight drinking problem when stressed? Or shows up hung over? Or can not function in the morning because people on heavy brain meds need them to kick in (afternoon, evening workers) before he can think straight.

Another problem, factories now require a grade 12 education level. How many welfare recipients have a grade 12, not the majority I would venture to say. So the problem is actually multi-layered and it is not just as simple as saying "get a job or no welfare".

Another issue for single mums is day care providers are expensive. No way a mum can make $12.00 an hour and place her child into child care it costs all most that much. So once again, cheaper to pay them to stay home.

So I wish some of these people who think they are going to save the country millions or billions by ending welfare would think through the cost and impact on society.

Plus there are various forms of assistance some people will NEVER be employable and that is just reality.

 

[SLM]

That is a harsh reality that you paint, but nonetheless, it's very true. That said, I have to wonder about how many of those folks actually seek assistance through welfare to begin with?

You mean assistance with their mental health? Probably a few, but there is just as much stigma associated with those who have mental health issues as there are associate with those who are on welfare. Probably more so actually.

We do seem to be constantly defining things based on the worst of a group aren't we? I would wager to bet that those who truly need the assistance the most, those who are the very definition of what welfare was designed for, are so morbidly humiliated and embarrassed for needing it. Yet they get lumped in with all the rest of the 'welfare bums' whenever anyone refers to them as 'welfare bums', those who play the system with no intention of taking the hand up, only the hand out.

 

[Sal]

Hard to say. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's all the government's fault. Often the individual is at least party at fault too.

Interesting perspective. Can you explain a bit further?

That said, I could see conditions to welfare, such as compulsory skills training, and instead of giving money, how about giving room and board directly.
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We already do that by providing places that are "geared to income" Thus the person living beside you may only pay $200.00 a month for their apartment that you are paying $1200.00 for.


I

remember a study in Sweden some years back. In spite of a generous social safety net, some people still ended up on the street. There were various psychological, social, and other factors involved. Among them, being too proud to ask for help, mental illness, or ignorance of the help available. Simply having a social safety net obviously is not a panacea.

Agree.

 

[SLM]

Simply having a social safety net obviously is not a panacea.

No it's not but at least you can catch some that way before they fall to the ground.

 

[petros]

Which resources?

Natural resources.

 

[Machjo]

Interesting perspective. Can you explain a bit further?

Well, if the person drinks on the job, doesn't show up for work on time, etc. It may or may not be his fault depending on various factors, but I'm just saying we can't say unemployment is ALWAYS the government's fault.[/QUOTE]