Leaving Kuwait.

[earth_as_one]

I wish more forum regulars were able to make his points in a clear and uninsulting manner like LG. Thank you for your thoughtful post LG. I haven't got time t reply to LG right now in a way that his post deserves, but I'll come back later.

 

[earth_as_one]

Oh, those poor invading Iraqis.
Um, "What you sow, so shall you reap" (AKA Karma).

Ever heard of the DUH factor? For one thing, I doubt any of those Iraqis were particularly genius material under the amount of disorientation and heavy fire they were likely experiencing.
For another, would you really hide in a city that's loaded with people that you had just invaded and persecuted?

uhoh F&*%ing TOS rules anyway, huh? *Bleep*ing nuisances, aren't they?

I agree with the setiment that "What you reap, so shall you so".

However, from the viewpoint of the 18 year old conscript (aka cannon fodder), they never had a choice. They were called up to serve their country in a time of war. If they didn't report, that would have had negative consequences... proably they'd be shot and/or their family imprisoned/fined. So they had to go to war. They they were sent to Kuwait... no choice their either. Then they were defeated soundly by the US, still no choice but they were still alive. Then they were told to return to Iraq and that the US agreed not to attack retreating soldiers as per the deal mediated by the Soviets. (Unconditional surrender was not the agreement) So they abandonned theior heavy weapons, loaded up in troop carriers and queued up to retreat back to Iraq, as per their orders... again no choice here either.

Once the convoys left Kuwait City, Schwarzkopf the butcher gave the order to attack the retreating convoys and show no mercy.

At what point did the 18 year old conscript reap what they had sown?

Regarding why the Iraqis formed convoys and retreated to Iraq:
I'm not a military person, but even I know that fighting house to house in a densely populated urban area would have resulted in far more allied and civilian deaths, than what happened on the Highway of Hell. Its possible that some Iraqis could have taken off their uniforms and mixed in with the civilians. If the Iraqis knew they were in a fight to the death, I doubt they would have formed up in convoys and retreated to Iraq in this manner. So its obvious that deceipt was involved in this mass slaughter.

BTW, I don't have any empathy for Iraqi military brass who had choices unlike the 18 year old conscripts. In those cases,, you reap what you sow is applicabable. But look at the images on the previous pages again. YOu won't see any bodies because they were removed and dumped into mass unmarked graves. The mothers didn't even get their son's bodies back.

Yes war is hell, but the Highway of Hell is an example of deliberate and deceitful senseless slaughter. I suspect the Iraqis would have accepted an unconditional surrender as the other choice was a fight to the death in Kuwait City. But they weren't offered an unconitional surrender. They were told to abandon their weapons and return home so they could be deliberately slaughtered. The whole deception have to have been the plan from the beginning.

IMO, only a mass murderer would come up with such a diabolical plan.

I am not questioning Schwarzkopf's competence. He was a brilliant miltary strategist responible for routing the Iraqi invasion force with a minimum number of casualties on his side. Bravo.

But the Highway of Hell incident was about murderering as many Iraqi soldiers as possible, not about winning a war which was essentially already over.

I can understand why the callous or the ignorant might worship Shwarzkopf as a great man. But if you understand what happened here, its clear Schwarzkopf was a war criminal and mass murderer.

Also this is not Schwarzkopf worst transgression. About a year later, he authorized radio broadcasts and leaflet drops encounraging disgruntled Iraqis to rebel against HUssein, promising US assistance if they did. Again Iraqis took Schwarzkopf at his word (Why I don't know, maybe because they figured getting rid of Hussein was a common cause) and rebelled. Again Schwarzkopf said one thing and then did another. IN this case, Iraq sent attack heicopters in to pacify the revolt in southern Iraq and Schwarzkopf did nothing as about 100,000 people were slaughered.

So the blood on Shwarzkopf's hands isn't just tens of thousands of involuntary conscripts, but also innocent civilians (men, women and children).

I'm certain hundreds of thousands of people would like to piss on his grave.

Rot in Hell Schwarzkopf, you two faced, lying murdering war criminal. IMO...

 

[DaSleeper]

You rant for hours, weeks nay years ad nauseum and with never ending long posts over perceived "war crimes" by your own country and its allies while you gloss over the crimes of Hamas in Palestine, Al Quaeda in Iran, Iraq..... China et and a host of others..with barely a passing mention to "pretend" you're impartial.

I will not say you're a hypocrite instead I will be polite and follow forum rules and call you digenuous to an extreme limit

 

[earth_as_one]

I've never glossed over anyone's war crimes. I condemn them all and all war criminals. But when I condemn Hussein or other people considered as adversaries as a war criminal, few people disagree or challenge me. But when I condemn war criminals like Schwarzkopf or people considered on "our" side, people like yourself get their panties in a knot, claim I'm lying and deny, deny, deny...

So I back up my allegations with evidence and the debate ensues. I noticed people like yourself have a hard time figuring out that our news and political leaders lie to us all the time, even when I post evidence like photos of thousands of destroyed cars, trucks and buses indicating a slaughter of disarmed retreating soldiers for example.

 

[Highball]

The US has over 150,000 military and an additional 72,000 civilian personnel staged in Bahrain and Kuwait. The rent bill is in the billions even year too. Why? Bebt problems for the US? Maybe eliminating this expense would help ease that issue too?

 

[DaSleeper]

I've never glossed over anyone's war crimes. I condemn them all and all war criminals.

B.S.

But when I condemn Hussein or other people considered as adversaries as a war criminal, few people disagree or challenge me..

Only lip service and rarely

But when I condemn war criminals like Schwarzkopf or people considered on "our" side, people like yourself get their panties in a knot, claim I'm lying and deny, deny, deny....

You disregard any proof of your errors that others bring forward, move the goal posts and continue with more BS

So I back up my allegations with evidence and the debate ensues. I noticed people like yourself have a hard time figuring out that our news and political leaders lie to us all the time, even when I post evidence like photos of thousands of destroyed cars, trucks and buses indicating a slaughter of disarmed retreating soldiers for example.

People keep shoving you pictures with the caravan with tanks in it and you keep reposting the same picture that has no tanks in it...very selective of
This is why it's no use discussing anything with you>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[earth_as_one]

I back up my statements with references to supporting evidence.

You and others tend to make unsupported statements as if you are an authoritive source and call people names if they disagree with you. Nearly every debate I've had with you do just what's happening now... you change the subject from whatever it is to a personal attack against me.

I have an idea dS. How about posting on topic or start a thread about me, where your comments about me would be on-topic?

 

[DaSleeper]

I back up my statements with references to supporting evidence.

You and others tend to make unsupported statements as if you are an authoritive source and call people names if they disagree with you. Nearly every debate I've had with you do just what's happening now... you change the subject from whatever it is to a personal attack against me.

I have an idea dS. How about posting on topic or start a thread about me, where your comments about me would be on-topic?

Naah....You're a one trick pony...the muddled east and your hate of Israel and American and Canadian support of Israel is your beat.

 

[earth_as_one]

DS, do you know what this thread is about? Please try to stay on topic. Your lame personal attacks are off topic...

 

[lone wolf]

When has what the thread is about ever mattered if it can be mined for its propagandic value?

...like the event that gave birth to this one?

 

[earth_as_one]

Posts praising Schwarzkopf nearly made me puke. If anyone praised OBL, I would have reacted similarly. Anyone care to start a memorial thread on that war criminal mass murderer?
.

 

[EagleSmack]

Posts praising Schwarzkopf nearly made me puke. If anyone praised OBL, I would have reacted similarly. Anyone care to start a memorial thread on that war criminal mass murderer?
.

Schwarkopf RULES!

I am not questioning Schwarzkopf's competence. He was a brilliant miltary strategist responible for routing the Iraqi invasion force with a minimum number of casualties on his side. Bravo.

I'm sure he would appreciate your praise too!

But the Highway of Hell incident was about murderering as many Iraqi soldiers as possible, not about winning a war which was essentially already over.

Word of advice...

"Wars begin when you will... but they do not end when you please." - Machiavelli

 

[lone wolf]

Posts praising Schwarzkopf nearly made me puke. If anyone praised OBL, I would have reacted similarly. Anyone care to start a memorial thread on that war criminal mass murderer?
.

"Rest in Peace" is praise? Can you propagandize "War is Hell" too?

 

[L Gilbert]

I agree with the setiment that "What you reap, so shall you so".

However, from the viewpoint of the 18 year old conscript (aka cannon fodder), they never had a choice. They were called up to serve their country in a time of war. If they didn't report, that would have had negative consequences... proably they'd be shot and/or their family imprisoned/fined. So they had to go to war. They they were sent to Kuwait... no choice their either. Then they were defeated soundly by the US, still no choice but they were still alive. Then they were told to return to Iraq and that the US agreed not to attack retreating soldiers as per the deal mediated by the Soviets. (Unconditional surrender was not the agreement) So they abandonned theior heavy weapons, loaded up in troop carriers and queued up to retreat back to Iraq, as per their orders... again no choice here either.

Once the convoys left Kuwait City, Schwarzkopf the butcher gave the order to attack the retreating convoys and show no mercy.

At what point did the 18 year old conscript reap what they had sown?

When they became soldiers and invaded Kuwait. Like I have said many times, if you become a soldier, you should accept what that entails. Iraq was the aggressor. If people didn't want to war on a very small nation, they should bloody well revolt against the dipstick who ordered it.

And I don't really give two hoots about Schwarzkopf. He did his job just like the Iraqi army tried to do its job.

 

[CDNBear]

I wish more forum regulars were able to make his points in a clear and uninsulting manner like LG.

Nice insult and yet another lie. My replies to you contained no insults. They did however contain facts that you don't like and have continuously ignored, while you continue to post the same lies, over and over.

Thus proving you aren't here for debate.