God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?

[Dexter Sinister]

You will find the people who believe in God are the ones who try to follow God's laws which are good.

Does you mean all of god's laws are good, or that believers follow only the ones that are good? Doesn't really make much difference, it's just that the way you constructed that sentence doesn't make it clear what you mean. I've found nothing of the sort. I've found many who believe in god to be among of the most bigoted and harshly judgmental people on the planet. I've also never found two people who can completely agree on what god's laws actually are, or anyone who can demonstrate that they are in fact god's laws and not human inventions.

 

[MHz]

1Pe:4:15:
But let none of you suffer as a murderer,
or as a thief,
or as an evildoer,
or as a busybody in other men's matters.

Evildoer would reference breaches in the 10 Commandments, would that leave busy bodies to be breaches of the laws of whatever nation a person is standing in. If in OT Judea, the 'Christian' would obey the OT laws of the land rather the exempting themselves from that sort of obligation. (Same God so that is not an issue)

In the beginning was the word: "Why?" It was uttered by the first self aware man. Finding no answers, he invented gods to explain the unexplainable. Then came a man who decided that, to simplify matters, there only needed to be one god. But even this became unsatisfactory for thinking man so he invented science, but science can only explain how, because why is irrelevant. Life just is. It really doesn't need an explanation. Life is an experience but people get lost in the questions and forget to actually live.

Maybe that is referencing when God first spoke and then the words spoken were made to become real. (detectable by any sense)

The wisdom spoken of in Proverbs 8 is applied to Christ in that chapter . Does that qualify Him as the perfect judge for when that day arrives?

Prove its only the first. If you can't, then that's just your opinion.

Yeah, between the early homonid and the sabertooth, I'd suggest the sabertooth would have the dominion. Humans still only have a limited dominion over other forms of life on the planet.

Anyway, back to the topic; people have been coming up with rules since we evolved. And that's long before any critter wrote a bible and said it was the word of some god or other.

In your version of the world God would have come into being the day a group that formed a primitive society and came across something like this. It is not much different, supernatural Gods that are missing in action for a very long time

 

[Cliffy]

Maybe that is referencing when God first spoke and then the words spoken were made to become real. (detectable by any sense)

The wisdom spoken of in Proverbs 8 is applied to Christ in that chapter . Does that qualify Him as the perfect judge for when that day arrives?

How is this relevant to what I posted? Man created god in his own image then wrote a book to say it was god's word. That seems pretty simple to me. If you invent a god, then it is really easy to put words in his mouth.

 

[MHz]

First of all there was only one law given to Adam and Eve which was basically a test of obedience.

Then after the flood there were the six Noahide laws

Prohibition of Idolatry
Prohibition of Murder
Prohibition of Theft
Prohibition of Sexual immorality
Prohibition of Blasphemy
Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive

Then after the Israelites escape from Egypt came the Ten Commandments that we are all familiar with and then after the Babylonian exile the Levite Priests wrote their own law which included their secular law and this is what many Jews follow today.


Last but not least come the commandments of Jesus

The Golden Rule
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

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Not that is makes much difference but the rules God used to judge the world as being evil come from the law mentioned in Re:21. That iw when men have had the 2nd birth which is being able to look on God's face and remain alive. The law in that chapter is the angels would have been under since they were created as part of 'heaven' (past our clouds and to the end of the universe) Satan was the first 'son of God' top sin, murder and a lie, the other fallen angels fell in that they took wives and had children by them and that was their sin because they were crested to not be given in marriage so they became classified as fornicators and sin for a being that is of the 2nd birth the penalty is death. All the things in the list were being promoted as being the way things are done when you are a fallen angel or a child of theirs, a physical child has 6 fingers on each hand and some of them remained and were finally exterminated just at the time a new law came into effect, one that would be in place until the prophecies and events connected to the bruise to the heel were completed. The 600+ laws were not to be taken when the De:4:30 scattering took place but the 10 Commandments did as seeking forgiveness for sins is still a requirement to qualify for life at the 1st opportunity. That is also the day men become immortal and sinless because if they sinned they would end up in the lake instead of New Jerusalem in the new earth part of salvation.
The change for the 12 Tribes being the ones getting judged came to an end when Jesus said it is finished moments before Her died on the cross. When He says it again as the last vial is being poured out it is in relation to sinners dieing in great numbers. Sinners never exist again in any form other than Satan and the fallen angels when the people alive and holy for 1,000 years are there to witness what fire from God in Heaven really looks like. If a person saw it at Sodom they died, if they see it destroy Satan's Babylon and live they will see it from 'inside the fire' when Satan is permanently removed from the Kingdom of God.

Isa:51:6:
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look upon the earth beneath:
for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment,
and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever,
and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

A temple on earth will be build on that first day and it will serve as a house of prayer for the nations, it even comes with an altar for sacrifices for sin. With a population that starts out completely free of sin and they have perfect leadership and the number stays the same so no new members cn mess things up, how many times would a sacrifice have been made for sin? Starts at '0' and 1,000 literal years later it will still be 'o' fror the planet. These ;saints in training are then qualified to have a home inside New Jerusalem for eternity. All the people not there willl enter New Jerusalem after the GWT event and return to this earth and all the rest of mankind will live outside the city walls. The 1,000 years is a model of this with the whole house of Israel playing the role of who will reside inside New Jerusalem and the remnant of the Nations (both in Zec:14) play the role of the ones living outside the city walls. Going into all the references is lots of reading but this should show how another version uses certain passages. Just in time for Christmas.

Ever see Da:11 as being the trumps of Revelation so all those events take place in just 3 1/2 years?

Almost forgot, when God says, "It is done." in Re:21 it is to close the door on salvation. The door was first opened on the day the two Gentile witnesses of Re:11 are resurrected to eternal life, the GWT is when the last of the Gentiles are given the same gift from God.

How is this relevant to what I posted? Man created god in his own image then wrote a book to say it was god's word. That seems pretty simple to me. If you invent a god, then it is really easy to put words in his mouth.

I was trying to put my heathen shoes back on to help me illustrate the concept., no wonder I parked it so long ago.

How about this, ... say you had God all figured out as far as who you were and how you got to where you are in the grand scheme of things, then you come across something the defies all 'rational explanations' so a superhuman is invented. Gods of various legends that are still in some books today. In the picture say you came around a corner (while still having a cave as the best shelter man has) and you come across the building back when it was in perfect condition, what would you and your group do in terms of explaining WTF that was WTF built it.

I get three tries for a loonie in case this one missed the mark also.

 

[darkbeaver]

How many Mafia bosses were good Churchies?

Organized crimes favourite safe haven is a church.

 

[Cliffy]

I was trying to put my heathen shoes back on to help me illustrate the concept., no wonder I parked it so long ago.

How about this, ... say you had God all figured out as far as who you were and how you got to where you are in the grand scheme of things, then you come across something the defies all 'rational explanations' so a superhuman is invented. Gods of various legends that are still in some books today. In the picture say you came around a corner (while still having a cave as the best shelter man has) and you come across the building back when it was in perfect condition, what would you and your group do in terms of explaining WTF that was WTF built it.

I get three tries for a loonie in case this one missed the mark also.

More gods, I presume. What does that have to do with what I posted?

I'm sure, at the beginning of the civilization effort, there were still primitive men around wondering what the heck these "gods" were up to. All of humanity did not evolve at once. We did not just crawl out of the caves en mass and start building fancy architecture. Some groups were slower than others. What were the Israelites doing while Sumer was being built? Wandering aimlessly around the desert with their herds of goats. Theyt were so far behind when they decided to write their history while in captivity in Babylon that they had to borrow their history from the Sumerians, Egyptians and Babylonians and create their own god to cover up the plagiarism.

 

[darkbeaver]

How is this relevant to what I posted? Man created god in his own image then wrote a book to say it was god's word. That seems pretty simple to me. If you invent a god, then it is really easy to put words in his mouth.

God is light. Man did not create light nor did he create the self conscious mind.

 

[MHz]

More gods, I presume. What does that have to do with what I posted?

I'm sure, at the beginning of the civilization effort, there were still primitive men around wondering what the heck these "gods" were up to. All of humanity did not evolve at once. We did not just crawl out of the caves en mass and start building fancy architecture. Some groups were slower than others. What were the Israelites doing while Sumer was being built? Wandering aimlessly around the desert with their herds of goats. They were so far behind when they decided to write their history while in captivity in Babylon that they had to borrow their history from the Sumerians, Egyptians and Babylonians and create their own god to cover up the plagiarism.

We should have stopped evolving when we could move those big blocks around with ease, strong but not so smart, now we are weaker and still not so smart. lol Right or wrong that was my last reply.

 

[Cliffy]

God is light. Man did not create light nor did he create the self conscious mind.

No. The self conscious mind evolved over a million or two years, possibly, as Terence McKenna postulates, by including plant hallucinogens, like Psilocybin found on the dung of animals on the savannas of Africa, in their diet. It is just as plausible as any other theory as any I have seen. Light was created, as far as the Earth is concerned, by the sun. Illumination may have come from the hallucinogens as well.

We should have stopped evolving when we could move those big blocks around with ease, strong but not so smart, now we are weaker and still not so smart. lol Right or wrong that was my last reply.

Personally, I think we stopped evolving when we stopped having a personal experience with the divine and adopted religion.

 

[darkbeaver]

No. The self conscious mind evolved over a million or two years, possibly, as Terence McKenna says, by including plant hallucinogens, like Psilocybin found on the dung of animals on the savannas of Africa, in their diet. It is just as plausible as any other theory as any I have seen. Light was created, as far as the Earth is concerned, by the sun. Illumination may have come from the hallucinogens as well.

What organized the matter into mushrooms? Why duze the dung have to be African? What created light? The ancients deal with the famous missing link, there isn't one. The power of the self conscience mind is broadcast universally at all times and it manifests in sufficiently evolved organisms as they attain the brain power to utilize what is universally available according to the very early natural philosophies. Or so say the old guys.

Personally, I think we stopped evolving when we stopped having a personal experience with the divine and adopted religion.

The old guys believed exactly that. The old books explain exactly that. When we worship false idols like the modern churches teach we are lost to evolution. Christ was always the inner devine power of the mind and never a piece of meat nailed to a wooden cross. This early rift in the christian church is very well understood and written about, it was never in doubt in the mystery schools. Of course they were crushed by the Catholic heresy.

 

[Cliffy]

What organized the matter into mushrooms?

Evolution involves a conscious effort. The biosphere, of which we are but a tiny part, is the source of life on this planet. As it evolved, it became more and more complex. It became aware long before humans even began their evolution. Are we the only species that is self aware in this biosphere. I don't know, but it has been suggested that, because of the ratio between brain mass and body mass, whales and porpoises could also be self aware. To me, they re smarter than we are because they don't fret, are not as anxious or wonder why so much. They just eat, mate up to 50 times a day and play all the time, which leads me to believe they may be more evolved than we are.

Why duze the dung have to be African?

It duzen't. It is just the commonly held belief that humans came out of Africa. I personally think our presence happened quite differently.

What created light?

A giant ball of burning gasses.

 

[MHz]

Personally, I think we stopped evolving when we stopped having a personal experience with the divine and adopted religion.

I want to thank God for evolving me so far that the bolded words went right over my head. lol

 

[Cliffy]

I want to thank God for evolving me so far that the bolded words went right over my head. lol

Zooom!

That's OK. You are still my brother. We are, after all, the children of the same parents.

 

[1an]

Something that is not commonly known is that the Israelites frequently turned to the worship of false gods and idols. The Golden Calf is an example of this. While Moses was receiving the Ten Commandments from the LORD, Aaron was feasting to the Golden Calf who he called LORD.

Surrounding each 'god' was a plethora of priests and soothsayers and when 'God' told the Israelites for example to kill everyone in Jericho except Rahab and her family we can be sure it was not the God of the Commandments who said not to kill but a priest speaking on behalf of a false god.

If you click on the names of the false gods at the end of the first paragraph it will tell you where they occur in the Old Testament and I feel we need to be aware of this because it is already happening and people are blaming the Almighty for the actions of those people who followed false gods.

WORSHIP, IDOL- - JewishEncyclopedia.com

This is why we have the 613 Mitzvah laws that were man-made by the Levite priests who invoked the name of god and these are what we read in Leviticus and Deuteronomy that were so favoured by the Pharisees who followed them to the letter which deeply saddened Jesus many years later.

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[MHz]

This is why we have the 613 Mitzvah laws that were man-made by the Levite priests who invoked the name of god and these are what we read in Leviticus and Deuteronomy that were so favoured by the Pharisees who followed them to the letter which deeply saddened Jesus many years later.

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Like the ones in Matthew 23? (Or attempted to kill Jeremiah)

 

[1an]

Like the ones in Matthew 23? (Or attempted to kill Jeremiah)

Yes, that is what I mean.

 

[French Patriot]

I want children to be bright enough to know that fire burns without being stupid and putting their hand in it.

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Then they must know of good and evil so your God wants us to be even less that what you want for your children.

Do you recognize that or will your dogma keep you blind?

Regards
DL

Children will run out into the road soon enough, but not to teach your children the Green Cross Code is the hight of irresponsible parenting.

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You seem to think that full disclosure of information is vital to good parenting.
Is so, I agree.

Where A & E fully informed of the consequences of their actions?

God mentioned that they would die. Not that he would murder them threw negligence. But that aside.

God gave only one consequence while the talking snake gave more and truer consequences.

Should A & E not have gotten full disclosure from God instead of second hand threw a talking snake, ---- that some think was Satan?

Also, what is your view of that talking snake? Was it Satan or just a talking snake or what?
I ask this seriously as there are irregularities in how God seems to have seen it. He may have punished an innocent creature.

Regards
DL

@L Gilbert. You are quite right LG and a lot of people talk about conscience, but that varies from person to person, a fire raiser seems to have no conscience about what they do and neither does a kleptomaniac, so perhaps we need rules? And of course a good parent will try to teach their children right from wrong.

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Yes but to believers who believe in the two main rules of placing God fires and then following the golden rule are stuck on the first when the Christian God is so fractured.

Place no one above which God as interpreted by which Christian cult?

The one that says man is to rule over women and gays are to be stoned, or the cults that give women and gays full equality?

Which God is your God? The first or the second?

Place no one above me. Who the hell is "me"?

Regards
DL

Cliffy

NYC Mom Charging Parents $350 To Let Kids Play in Unsupervised Park - YouTube

Regards
DL

 

[DaSleeper]

*****

 

[gerryh]

*****

Yup,that's about all he is worth.

 

[French Patriot]

This last few weeks LG I have seen people do things that convince me that Satan is alive and well and living in peoples hearts and minds. I have spent a lot of time thinking about this and I think myself that people have chosen harm and destruction as the way forward for themselves.

What is Satan doing in people's hearts?

Did God not sentence him to hell?

Or did God reward Satan with dominion over the earth and the ability to deceive the whole world as scriptures say?

Is justice delayed justice denied and is rewarding evil good justice?

Regards
DL

lol Free will. Science has shown that there is no such thing as free will. We are slave and subject to our DNA and the electrochemistry that runs our brain activity.

I think you have this backwards friend.

Michio Kaku: Why Physics Ends the Free Will Debate - YouTube

I even have a little test that proves you have free will.
If you wish to take it, let me know.

Regards
DL