Homosexuality
- Thread starter gerryh
- Start date
For the sake of others who may be interested perhaps you could enlighten us.
The phrase you mention is from the OT. I am asking about condemnation by Christ. NOT condemnation by man.
He won't, because he can't.
I think you are right, Gerry..................
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_New_Testament
Leviticus 18:22 "'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
It's true that Jesus is nowhere reported as explicitly condemning homosexuality, no variant of the word itself occurs anywhere in the Old or the New Testament, neither is there any euphemism like man lying with man in any of Jesus' reported utterances, but if you're willing to engage in a little sophistry, as Pastor Gallups up there does, you can almost make the case, essentially by arguing that he talks about it by talking about something else.
The Pastor first cites Matthew 19:4, which is the beginning of a statement about marriage being between a man and a woman, and since homosexuals don't do it that way, he reads that as a condemnation. Then he cites John 5:46, a reference to the Mosaic law, which does condemn it directly, still being in effect. Then he lists Luke 17:28, Matthew 10:15 and 11:24, and Mark 6:11. Those are references to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, which he takes to mean Jesus condemns sodomy. And finally, he makes the point that Jesus is God with us, God in the flesh, so whatever God reportedly said in the Old Testament can be taken as coming from Jesus' mouth too.
The Pastor first cites Matthew 19:4, which is the beginning of a statement about marriage being between a man and a woman, and since homosexuals don't do it that way, he reads that as a condemnation. Then he cites John 5:46, a reference to the Mosaic law, which does condemn it directly, still being in effect. Then he lists Luke 17:28, Matthew 10:15 and 11:24, and Mark 6:11. Those are references to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, which he takes to mean Jesus condemns sodomy. And finally, he makes the point that Jesus is God with us, God in the flesh, so whatever God reportedly said in the Old Testament can be taken as coming from Jesus' mouth too.
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"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
True... If you lie to a guy, your odds are better of getting smoted. When you go horizontal, you LAY
True... If you lie to a guy, your odds are better of getting smoted. When you go horizontal, you LAY
None of the NT references have anything to do with homosexuality. To say they do, is to stretch the meanings of the ENTIRE verse to the breaking point.
Mathew 19:4 is a direct answer to a specific question addressed to Christ by the scribes. Again, when taking the entirety, it obviously has nothing to do with homosexuality.
Does God condemn pedophilia, rape, or self-defense?
Could somebody provide a verse where Jesus is cited as condemning pedophilia?
Could somebody provide a verse where Jesus is cited as condemning pedophilia?
Jesus left some pretty clear insructions about the laws made by the men who sit in the seat of Moses. They aren't God's laws.
The only thing you're probably ever going to find is something in the Bible finger wagging sodomy.... since Male Homosexual Sexual Relations generally involves Sodomy, many Christians jump to the conclusion that Homosexuals are evil.
I don't think you're ever going to find any quote or story of Jesus saying anything against Homosexuality directly.
Though he has been quoted as saying "Get thee behind me Satan" ..... so..... maybe that's your answer
Satan was evil.... Sodomy is apparently evil, yet Jesus was cool by both :twisted:
I don't think you're ever going to find any quote or story of Jesus saying anything against Homosexuality directly.
Though he has been quoted as saying "Get thee behind me Satan" ..... so..... maybe that's your answer
Satan was evil.... Sodomy is apparently evil, yet Jesus was cool by both :twisted:
And yet it's just fine by the small c christians that a couple of chicks got their dad drunk and boinked him?
No wonder God trashed the Old Testement and issued a new one through Jesus.
Why is it that small c christians spend more time wallowing in the OT than the NT? Was Jesus just babbling?
Hebrews 8:13
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
No wonder God trashed the Old Testement and issued a new one through Jesus.
Why is it that small c christians spend more time wallowing in the OT than the NT? Was Jesus just babbling?
Hebrews 8:13
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
I agree completely, but that IS how people try to make the case against homosexuality. I've heard the first three of Pastor Gallups' claims before in this context, and they don't impress me as having anything to do with the issue, his fourth argument about Jesus being God and thus whatever God said, Jesus said, is one I've never seen before. It's an interesting example of the hoops people will jump through to justify their prejudices. But it was clear you weren't going to watch that video, so I thought I'd tell you what the man said.
I like Morgan Freeman's comment: homophobia's a terrible word. It's not a phobia, you're not afraid. You're just an a$$hole.
In what sense? I'm asking if Jesus said anything against pedophilia. This thread asks if Jesus said anything against homosexuality so, I guess somebody could assume there is a comparison being made. As to the morality of either, you would have to ask those that take their moral direction based on what Jesus did or didn't purportedly say on the issue.
All the alleged quotes I have heard have been Old Testament and even those one can argue about context.
