Heaven Is Real: A Doctor’s Experience With the Afterlife
- Thread starter Locutus
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So you are also on the fence about Thor, Zeus, Zarathustra, Quetzacoatl, Brahma? Do you sacrifice black beans every night to appease the lemures? Just in case?
A common refrain but it's simply not true. In order to prove something exists you need to establish a definition of that thing. If you have specific enough definitions, in some cases you could prove that that thing does not exist. And sometimes the qualities of that thing will make it impossible to exist and thus merely by defining it you are proving its non-existence.
To further what Corduroy is saying, it is well known that there exist no integer triples (x,y,z) to the following equation
with n different than 2. It is also well known that it is impossible to trisect an angle with a straight edge and compass. The list goes on and on.
Proving non-existence is logically indistinct from proving existence.
Yes I am on the fence about all religions and deities. Its possible that many beliefs may be based on actual events.
I believe a rational explanation could exist for all these deities, besides the one believed by atheists that they don't exist or never existed.
Example:
Given the vastness of the universe, the multitude of stars and planets... its likely (nearly certain) that life exists beyond earth. Some life will be less advanced and some will be more advanced. Advanced life forms visiting the earth would likely be described by our ancestors as Gods.
Thor, Zeus, Zarathustra, Quetzacoatl, Brahma everyone of them exist. Fir instance Zeus is Jupiter, Quetzacoatl Venus,
If you are not sacrificing black beans every night then you are definitely not on the fence about the lemures, so you really need to think more about what I wrote. If you are not planning on dying in battle then you are definitely not on the fence about Odin. If you are eating pork then you are definitely not on the fence about Yahweh, but let us say Allah since Islam arose after Christianity so you cannot use the normal apologetics there. Your equivocations on what it means to be Thor notwithstanding.
That is to say, you are an atheist too.
I have no problem admitting that there is a possibility that god exists, or even the possibility that unicorns and Zeus exists. I just don't believe it. And all religions are not equally implausible (though I'd say they are all equally untrue). For example, I'd say the vague misty liberal Abrahamic god is more likely to exist than Zeus merely because of definitions. The Abrahamic god created by modern theists to be vaguely inclusive of all monotheists (the ones who say "we all believe in the same god") seems carefully crafted to have the loosest definition possible. Some even say that this god is unknowable. This makes it impossible to disprove as any newly explained natural phenomena pushes it further into the gaps. Zeus on the other hand has very specific characteristics that you would potentially challenge.
But then we're brought back to impossible definitions. Zeus is more grounded in reality. He's depicted as man-like with human emotions and preoccupations. His powers are outlandish but not as outlandish as the Abrahamic god. Zeus is almost like a superhero with powers and limitations: shapeshifting, controls the weather. Implausible but not illogical. The Abrahamic god on the other hand is omnipotent and omnipresent. Human beings might one day be able to control the weather effect (we can affect it at least), but omnipotence is absurd. Omnipresence opens up a whole can of logical worms that work against Abrahamic beliefs in free will.
But then we're brought back to impossible definitions. Zeus is more grounded in reality. He's depicted as man-like with human emotions and preoccupations. His powers are outlandish but not as outlandish as the Abrahamic god. Zeus is almost like a superhero with powers and limitations: shapeshifting, controls the weather. Implausible but not illogical. The Abrahamic god on the other hand is omnipotent and omnipresent. Human beings might one day be able to control the weather effect (we can affect it at least), but omnipotence is absurd. Omnipresence opens up a whole can of logical worms that work against Abrahamic beliefs in free will.
So what do you say to the recovered alcoholic who has finally fought his way back to respectability and is prospering after finding "God" and managed to pull himself up out of the gutter? I'm not sure what the status of "God" is but I find it very presumptuous to insist there isn't one.
a/ the universe exists
b/ the universe is one
c/ the universe is all conscience
d/ nothing can be added or subtracted
e/ there is no other god but the one
f/ she loves you
b/ the universe is one
c/ the universe is all conscience
d/ nothing can be added or subtracted
e/ there is no other god but the one
f/ she loves you
Egads!!!!!! I find myself agreeing with earth_as_one.......in this thread!! Insert disclaimer;-)
That being said...even though I believe in one entity......He / She might have several names...
Sorry EAO....... I'm not ready to convert to Islam
That being said...even though I believe in one entity......He / She might have several names...
Sorry EAO....... I'm not ready to convert to Islam
NP dS.
I support the right of everyone to have a belief system. Religion can give one hope when they feel despair, strength when they feel weakness as well as provide a moral compass.
Therefore I support freedom to choose a belief system, even though I don't have one. (I'm agnostic, not Muslim) I even support religious groups charitable status for their community service.
Atheists like to believe that agnostics are atheists. But we aren't.
I cannot preclude the existence of a creator of the universe, superior life forms, that this might is a dream within a dream...
I may embrace a belief system at some point in the future. But for now, I'm content to respect all belief systems, including the atheist one that God(s) don't exist.
I support the right of everyone to have a belief system. Religion can give one hope when they feel despair, strength when they feel weakness as well as provide a moral compass.
Therefore I support freedom to choose a belief system, even though I don't have one. (I'm agnostic, not Muslim) I even support religious groups charitable status for their community service.
Atheists like to believe that agnostics are atheists. But we aren't.
I cannot preclude the existence of a creator of the universe, superior life forms, that this might is a dream within a dream...
I may embrace a belief system at some point in the future. But for now, I'm content to respect all belief systems, including the atheist one that God(s) don't exist.
There is a slight difference "not seeing something" doesn't prove much, at the risk of getting boring, I bring up the recovered alcoholic (drug addict, chocolate addict, gambling addict) who witnessed him on his road to recovery.
Proves a hell of a lot to me. If I'm hanging out with a group of people and say there's a giant demon rabbit looking in through the window, and everyone there can't see the rabbit, you're there and you can't see it, do you think your own observation proves nothing? What if I say I can't see it either? No one sees this rabbit, but I keep insisting that it's there. Why would you disbelief me?
You think that this argument of yours is very clever, but you would never use it for anything else. You only use it because it supports your already arrived at conclusion.
Maybe you want to take my word on the rabbit. What if I tell you that I have a severe psychological problem, such as substance addiction, and that many substance abusers like me also claim to see the rabbit? That makes a lot of sense doesn't it? People with severe psychological problems report seeing things. Crack that case Colombo!
OMG....... you've seen it too??? and I thought I was alone...but mine is green...not red demon like......
The giant demon rabbit is the one true rabbit! Death to the disbelievers! Death to the false green rabbit!
I'm not sure that I already have an "arrived at conclusion", only possibilities. You and your friends are looking out the window at the rabbit, but maybe the rabbit has moved away from the window and one of you sees his shadow. Different people may have a different concept of what form God takes. We started out thinking "he" was a nebulous sort of form up in the sky, but over the years I've come to accept, the he/she might just be a "power" within the individual. Years ago a 100 lb. found her son trapped by her car on top of him. There was no other help, so she lifted the car off him. What do you ascribe that phenomenum to?