What Should Be The Correct Size Of The Federal Government?

The Old Medic

Council Member
May 16, 2010
1,330
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The World
No, everyone should NOT have all of the tax deductions that Corporations have. That is pure fantasy, and utterly unworkable. How many people do YOU hire, compared to most Corporations? How many people do you pay health insurance, workers compensation insurance, etc., on? How much equipment must you constantly replace, in order top remain competitive? How much training do YOU have to provide to family members, in order to function on a competitive basis? Etc., Etc., Etc.

As to the size of government: It should be no larger than the amount required to provide those services enumerated in the Constitution. The Federal Government has absolutely NO business being involved in Education, Health & Welfare, etc., as those functions are left to the individual States in the US Constitution.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
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Try very hard to put your prejudices aside. It will be difficult for you since you seem to have been born with them and never to have thought for yourself since.

The Liberals in the 1mid 1990's drastically reduced the size of the Civil service (15% was the figure I recall). The programmes and departments were not downloaded. Federal responsibilities were not shifted to the provinces. The moniees required for some aspects were.

It was a decade or so before the levels of employment was close to being regained and that barely compensated for the increase in population. Harper, of course, has managed to increase it more - mostly, I suspect to have sfficient hacks to spy on the workers.

You sure you live in the same country as the rest of us? This is Canada and the feds downloaded lots of costs to the provinces during both Cretin's and Martin's reigns. Both also stole from the EI program in an attempt to balance the books.



Ohoh, someone can't refute the list.

Kind of hard to refute facts. Even good spin doctors have a problem with that and parrots have no chance at all.

Don't sweat it, I got sucked in the same way with the N.D.P. My advice is never align yourself with ANY party- ones as fallible as another or if you do limit your allegiance to one day.

That is true. I worked hard to get the BC Liberals elected the first time. Mostly it was because Boondoggle gave me lots of time not working and I simply wanted to reciprocate. Haven't been to a party convention since. I will still vote for them since I see them as the lesser of three evils.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
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Vernon, B.C.
That is true. I worked hard to get the BC Liberals elected the first time. Mostly it was because Boondoggle gave me lots of time not working and I simply wanted to reciprocate. Haven't been to a party convention since. I will still vote for them since I see them as the lesser of three evils.

'Fraid so, I don't like them too much but I still don't think they are as bad as the likes of "Slimy Moe". :lol:
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
1,041
0
36
Ontario
You sure you live in the same country as the rest of us? This is Canada and the feds downloaded lots of costs to the provinces during both Cretin's and Martin's reigns. Both also stole from the EI program in an attempt to balance the books.



Kind of hard to refute facts. Even good spin doctors have a problem with that and parrots have no chance at all.



That is true. I worked hard to get the BC Liberals elected the first time. Mostly it was because Boondoggle gave me lots of time not working and I simply wanted to reciprocate. Haven't been to a party convention since. I will still vote for them since I see them as the lesser of three evils.

I begin to understand why you are a slave. You lack the mental equipment to cope with freedom.

The question is numbers of civil servants NOT the EI programme. The EI programme continued and required the same staff. As did all the other programmes. It was that staff that ws made skeleton.

As for the 'list,' that is rank stupidity. Some idiot compiles a list of things he does not like and calls it reason to not vote for the Liberals. A longer list was devised by some other idiot knocking the Conservatives. It was just as yawn inducing. I have not the slightest intention of playing that infantile game.

I do wait, but not with bated breath, for one or more of you to try to refute the real sins of the CPC that I set out.

Seems like an apt spot to post this little bit of doggerel I wrote more than four years ago. I could have gone on for the (apparently 199 stanzas, ut I became bored - even though these are real faults.


I could probably make it 999 by now.



HARPER SAYS


Climate Change,” Steve Harper says.
“Is just imagination.
Why listen to the scientists
And wake a sleepy nation?”




“Albertan Oil,,” Steve Harper says,
“Is my political salvation.
What matter careless production
Will be mankind's damnation?”


“Poverty,” Steve Harper says.
“Is just a Left Wing fiction.
Idleness is at its root.
Such is my conviction.”


“Economy's ills,” Steve Harper says,
“Can easily be cured.
Tax cuts for the rich will bring
Prosperity assured.”


“Job losses,” Steven Harper says,
“Cut me to the core.
Losses by my candidates
Will bother me much more.”


“The care of children,” Harper says,
“Is just for you and me.
Daycare will spoil the little brats
And set their parents free.”


“Women's Status,” Harper says.
“Is now I think just fine.
Continued funding for the dears
Is not a wish of mine.”


“Literacy,” Steve Harper says,
“Is a subversive notion.
No funding for such blasphemy
Will I ever set in motion.”


“Accountability,” Harper says.
“Is for the Liberals.
It isn't a necessity
for Tories and their pals.”






“Court Challenges,” Steve Harper says,
Will not be satisfied.
The decrees of my government
Must never be denied.”


“Same sex marriage,” Harper says,
“Is an abomination.
No heresy like this will soil
The great Canadian nation.”


“Softwood lumber,” Harper says,
“Annoys my American friend.
A billion dollars for George Bush
Will make the problem end.”


“Aboriginals,” Steve says,
“Have always been a problem.
I'll cancel Kelowna
And that will surely nobble 'em.”


“Canada,” Steve Harper says,
“ Is just a Federation.
Let's pander to the Separatists
And call Quebec a nation.”


“Youth criminals, “ Steve Harper says,
“Must just be put in Gaol.
Proposals to reform them
Are quite beyond the pale.”



And when Steve goes to bed at night
And ponders on his worth.
He modestly gives thanks to Him
Who made him salt of the Earth.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
I could probably make it 999 by now.
But you haven't. I find that odd. Given the energy you put into being an extremist.

HARPER SAYS

Climate Change,” Steve Harper says.
“Is just imagination.
Why listen to the scientists
And wake a sleepy nation?”

“Albertan Oil,,” Steve Harper says,
“Is my political salvation.
What matter careless production
Will be mankind's damnation?”

“Poverty,” Steve Harper says.
“Is just a Left Wing fiction.
Idleness is at its root.
Such is my conviction.”

“Economy's ills,” Steve Harper says,
“Can easily be cured.
Tax cuts for the rich will bring
Prosperity assured.”

“Job losses,” Steven Harper says,
“Cut me to the core.
Losses by my candidates
Will bother me much more.”

“The care of children,” Harper says,
“Is just for you and me.
Daycare will spoil the little brats
And set their parents free.”

“Women's Status,” Harper says.
“Is now I think just fine.
Continued funding for the dears
Is not a wish of mine.”

“Literacy,” Steve Harper says,
“Is a subversive notion.
No funding for such blasphemy
Will I ever set in motion.”

“Accountability,” Harper says.
“Is for the Liberals.
It isn't a necessity
for Tories and their pals.”

“Court Challenges,” Steve Harper says,
Will not be satisfied.
The decrees of my government
Must never be denied.”

“Same sex marriage,” Harper says,
“Is an abomination.
No heresy like this will soil
The great Canadian nation.”

“Softwood lumber,” Harper says,
“Annoys my American friend.
A billion dollars for George Bush
Will make the problem end.”

“Aboriginals,” Steve says,
“Have always been a problem.
I'll cancel Kelowna
And that will surely nobble 'em.”

“Canada,” Steve Harper says,
“ Is just a Federation.
Let's pander to the Separatists
And call Quebec a nation.”

“Youth criminals, “ Steve Harper says,
“Must just be put in Gaol.
Proposals to reform them
Are quite beyond the pale.”

And when Steve goes to bed at night
And ponders on his worth.
He modestly gives thanks to Him
Who made him salt of the Earth.
Eureka! How cute.

I'm interested in hearing more of these.

But alas, I'd have to ask some Tom, Dick, John or Harry.

Never under estimate the powers of the Google navigator...

Even the UN should remember the Tom's, Dick's, Peate's, and Harry's in their midsts.

I smell some fibs.
 
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Angstrom

Hall of Fame Member
May 8, 2011
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Could the problem be, that its easier to grow the government then to shrink it.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Could the problem be, that its easier to grow the government then to shrink it.

The government grows as the population grows once one tries to shrink the government where the population is still growing that's where the problem starts because servicing the population becomes more difficult even though the tax base is growing.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
The government grows as the population grows once one tries to shrink the government where the population is still growing that's where the problem starts because servicing the population becomes more difficult even though the tax base is growing.

No, the size of government can be reduced without cutting services. In fact services could be expanded without higher taxes just by being efficient, which what I've seen and experienced governments clearly are not. FAR TOO MUCH PROGRAM MONEY IS EATEN UP IN ADMINISTRATION. Then there are all the useless hidden costs like refitting a ship then scrapping it. Or sucking up taxpayer money to rebuild the E&N railway when there is no industry left to support it and a dayliner that runs the wrong schedule. The list goes on and on.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
No, the size of government can be reduced without cutting services. In fact services could be expanded without higher taxes just by being efficient, which what I've seen and experienced governments clearly are not. FAR TOO MUCH PROGRAM MONEY IS EATEN UP IN ADMINISTRATION. Then there are all the useless hidden costs like refitting a ship then scrapping it. Or sucking up taxpayer money to rebuild the E&N railway when there is no industry left to support it and a dayliner that runs the wrong schedule. The list goes on and on.

Are they still running that Dayliner to take people from the big city out to the boonies during shopping hours?
 

Angstrom

Hall of Fame Member
May 8, 2011
10,659
0
36
Both equally easy, depending on the mood of the electorate I guess, and whether there is any money left.

If a government department needs only 50% of its funding one year it will lose 50% of its funding for next year.This kind of policy encourages departments to spend all the money even if its not needed.

There is no reward for running a efficient department at the government. You are penalized for doing so.

(example: We pay doctors when you are sick. Imagine paying them only when you are healthy. Same with Police. If they only get payed when there is no crime. I'm willing to bet there would be much less crime and shyt would be much more efficient.)
 
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TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,467
139
63
Location, Location
(example: We pay doctors when you are sick. Imagine paying them only when you are healthy.

In that example, what doctor would be willing to take on older patients, or people with chronic health problems? The doctors would only want to have healthy young people as patients.
 

Angstrom

Hall of Fame Member
May 8, 2011
10,659
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In that example, what doctor would be willing to take on older patients, or people with chronic health problems? The doctors would only want to have healthy young people as patients.

And in our system doctors only want sick patients. They are not rewarded for making you healthy. They are rewarded when you get sick. That's counter productive don't you think?

To have a efficient system you would need to work in a bunch of controls so that doctors are payed when they are successful at healing you, and keeping you healthy.
 
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taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
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Vancouver Island
And in our system doctors only want sick patients. They are not rewarded for making you healthy. They are rewarded when you get sick. That's counter productive don't you think?

To have a efficient system you would need to work in a bunch of controls so that doctors are payed when they are successful at healing you, and keeping you healthy.

Thats why Naturopaths are banned from the system. Their goal is to make you healthy, not just maintain you on pills of dubious quality and usefulness. Unlike Germany where Naturopaths have hospital privileges.
 

Angstrom

Hall of Fame Member
May 8, 2011
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Thats why Naturopaths are banned from the system. Their goal is to make you healthy, not just maintain you on pills of dubious quality and usefulness. Unlike Germany where Naturopaths have hospital privileges.


Oh crap!

This thread just got way to intelligent for 90 % of Canadians. Let me dumb it down a bit.
blow some life into this thing.

xDDDD

The perfect government size, Is as small as possible.
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
1,041
0
36
Ontario
Oh crap!

This thread just got way to intelligent for 90 % of Canadians. Let me dumb it down a bit.
blow some life into this thing.

xDDDD

The perfect government size, Is as small as possible.

And to make it as small as possible, the question in the title needs be answered.