Gun Control is Completely Useless.

bluebyrd35

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After 2070 posts it wouldn't surprise me if the original message has changed. Right now I'm trying to educate Bluebyrd. :lol:

OMG........That is like trying to convince me that Guns are the equivalent of salvation of modern society, or that Christianity is the gentle,
anti-war, salvation necessary to saving the world for humans. You can't really believe this.

I think your education has been sadly neglected, Sweetheart!

You stated that guns had other purposes, other than killing or maiming. So suggest a few!!
PS.....I am gone swimming. I may be a longtime gone depending on weather.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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The usual mediocre one liners signifying nothing. Your N. de P. is an insult to decent Canadians. It is okay to like to hunt but trying to make the right to indulge it into something of an epiphany is sinful. You are one twisted BSing fart.
Look, if you get pwnd and can't refute or reply coherently to what I said, just concede like a mature adult.

You don't have to make childish posts, filled with further proof of idiocy and mental illness.
 
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B00Mer

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If I shoot a random person and then after the fact find out by chance that they were on their way to bomb a school, I am still a murderer. Post hoc justifications are not defenses. The question is, could this situation have been avoided? As framed, it could have been avoided..

O.K. you'll be on the 5:00PM news as everyone's hero.. Congratulations Niflmir, you just shot the Colarado bomber and are now a hero.. three chears for Niflmir!!!

As I said, it was sad but sounds like the guy did right.. The bear was in motion to attack the girl.. do I agree with his actions.. hell no!! He should have stepped in front of the girl and become the main course for the bear.. lol
 

Niflmir

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O.K. you'll be on the 5:00PM news as everyone's hero.. Congratulations Niflmir, you just shot the Colarado bomber and are now a hero.. three chears for Niflmir!!!

As I said, it was sad but sounds like the guy did right.. The bear was in motion to attack the girl.. do I agree with his actions.. hell no!! He should have stepped in front of the girl and become the main course for the bear.. lol

I'd be on the 5:00PM news as a psychopath that needs to be locked up. You'd let a fox into the hen house because it chased off the hawk?

He shouldn't have been in the situation where he needed to make that choice. If I go into a slum and start flashing money around, then I end up shooting a person who tries to mug me, am I not an idiot for flashing money around a slum?
 

B00Mer

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He shouldn't have been in the situation where he needed to make that choice. If I go into a slum and start flashing money around, then I end up shooting a person who tries to mug me, am I not an idiot for flashing money around a slum?

eh!! No.. I'd toss my wallet south and be running north.. or better yet, not go into a slum.. but have been in that very situation.. and guess what? I tossed my wallet south.... and head for the border to the north.. lol (bad area in a border town in Mexico)
 

CDNBear

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He shouldn't have been in the situation where he needed to make that choice. If I go into a slum and start flashing money around, then I end up shooting a person who tries to mug me, am I not an idiot for flashing money around a slum?
You might be an idiot. But that doesn't change the fact that being an idiot, doesn't give anyone the right to physically assault and rob you.
 

Niflmir

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Dec 18, 2006
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eh!! No.. I'd toss my wallet south and be running north.. or better yet, not go into a slum.. but have been in that very situation.. and guess what? I tossed my wallet south.... and head for the border to the north.. lol (bad area in a border town in Mexico)

lol. I hope you weren't flashing your money around.

I carry two wallets around in case anything like that ever happens. One with cash, the other with cards and ID's. Not sure if it is going to help if I ever get mugged.
 

B00Mer

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lol. I hope you weren't flashing your money around..

You don't have to have lots of money to get robbed in a few Mexician border towns, you just have to look "American" and or be wearing nice clothes..

You forget, ICE drives buses to the border and all the illegals they cought get off with no money.. they just spent the last $3000USD on a coyotte that failed them and looking for someone to blame.. so any white guy will do..

I think that was Calexico–Mexicali ...

 

skookumchuck

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Jan 19, 2012
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No, the only thing that the hypothetical ranger did was to say that the animal was sick. As a post hoc justification it is questionable at best. The bear was already dead, maybe they just wanted everyone to feel better about it, so the ranger ended up lying to everyone.

If I shoot a random person and then after the fact find out by chance that they were on their way to bomb a school, I am still a murderer. Post hoc justifications are not defenses. The question is, could this situation have been avoided? As framed, it could have been avoided.



You aren't very good with logic are you? First some random syllogism about me being the sort of gun owner that would shoot a person that makes no sense. Then this appeal to authority. Not sure where you learned that bragging was a good way to make a point.

You know absolutely nothing about me, but insist that your knowledge eclipses mine? What hubris. You sure do like to strut around like a peacock.


If you had any first hand knowledge you would have put it forward long ago. I stated my credentials which i can absolutely prove, call it bragging to change the subject if you like. Would you state your provable first hand knowledge of animal/wildlife habits and the wild world please? Or you can go on trying to kick ass with crutches.
How do you as a human, assert leadership/dominance in a group of Moose outside of force? Elch to you perhaps.
What does a Lynx do most often when cornered or frightened?
What smallish Mammal commonly hunts and eats Beaver Kits?
Do Coyotes or Wolves have larger litters during a high cycle of Rabbit population?
Can you answer the questions without the help of Google or a book?
You would not lie would you?
You made reference to "my guns", and claim you do not hunt. Bit of an odd thing that you seem to decry firearms ownership.
 

Niflmir

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Dec 18, 2006
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If you had any first hand knowledge you would have put it forward long ago. I stated my credentials which i can absolutely prove, call it bragging to change the subject if you like. Would you state your provable first hand knowledge of animal/wildlife habits and the wild world please? Or you can go on trying to kick ass with crutches.
How do you as a human, assert leadership/dominance in a group of Moose outside of force? Elch to you perhaps.
What does a Lynx do most often when cornered or frightened?
What smallish Mammal commonly hunts and eats Beaver Kits?
Do Coyotes or Wolves have larger litters during a high cycle of Rabbit population?
Can you answer the questions without the help of Google or a book?
You would not lie would you?
You made reference to "my guns", and claim you do not hunt. Bit of an odd thing that you seem to decry firearms ownership.

Its called bragging because appeal to authority is a fallacy. What does any of this have to do with the following question:

Did that man and that girl need to be there?

Your questions have nothing to do with that. You just need me to know less than you because you realize you've missed the point. That or you are another Timothy Treadwell.

Did I decry firearms ownership? No, that is just you putting words in my mouth again. I suggest that you need me to be against firearms ownership because otherwise I don't fit into your narrow world view.

I will say this: I never lie. The reasons for it are simple, and you can read about them here: http://www.amazon.com/Lying-Kindle-...?ie=UTF8&qid=1343943423&sr=8-1&keywords=lying
 

JLM

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OMG........That is like trying to convince me that Guns are the equivalent of salvation of modern society, or that Christianity is the gentle,
anti-war, salvation necessary to saving the world for humans. You can't really believe this.

You stated that guns had other purposes, other than killing or maiming. So suggest a few!!
PS.....I am gone swimming. I may be a longtime gone depending on weather.

target practise, scaring off garden pests, scaring off intruders, knocking down avalanches, fast method of punching holes in metal.
 

skookumchuck

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Jan 19, 2012
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Its called bragging because appeal to authority is a fallacy. What does any of this have to do with the following question:

Did that man and that girl need to be there?

Your questions have nothing to do with that. You just need me to know less than you because you realize you've missed the point. That or you are another Timothy Treadwell.

Did I decry firearms ownership? No, that is just you putting words in my mouth again. I suggest that you need me to be against firearms ownership because otherwise I don't fit into your narrow world view.

I will say this: I never lie. The reasons for it are simple, and you can read about them here: Lying (Kindle Single): Sam Harris, Annaka Harris: Amazon.com: Kindle Store

Oh man! You are really out of it if you liken me to Treadwell:lol:
You did not answer the questions but keep bobbing and weaving even though your stinger does not exist.
 

Niflmir

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Dec 18, 2006
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target practise, scaring off garden pests, scaring off intruders, knocking down avalanches, fast method of punching holes in metal.

If we're equivocating, you forgot to mention putting nails into boards.

Oh man! You are really out of it if you liken me to Treadwell:lol:
You did not answer the questions but keep bobbing and weaving even though your stinger does not exist.

You must live close to an airport if you are so used to things going over your head. I liken you to Treadwell because you continue to erroneously insist that experience = knowledge. Treadwell is a good counter example.

I don't answer your questions because they have nothing to do with what I was talking about, and I am not in the habits of chasing people's smoke.

Now answer the actual question at hand: did that man and that little girl need to be there?
 

skookumchuck

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Jan 19, 2012
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If we're equivocating, you forgot to mention putting nails into boards.



You must live close to an airport if you are so used to things going over your head. I liken you to Treadwell because you continue to erroneously insist that experience = knowledge. Treadwell is a good counter example.

I don't answer your questions because they have nothing to do with what I was talking about, and I am not in the habits of chasing people's smoke.

Now answer the actual question at hand: did that man and that little girl need to be there?

No problem i will answer. No they did not NEED to be there, just as you do not NEED to have the freedom to question their freedom. Get it?
Peeps who put the welfare of not at risk animal species ahead of humans are unfortunate.
So according to your reasoning all good knowledge comes from academia, not experience and observation. Ok. My dance card is full now.
 

bluebyrd35

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Aug 9, 2008
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Look, if you get pwnd and can't refute or reply coherently to what I said, just concede like a mature adult.

You don't have to make childish posts, filled with further proof of idiocy and mental illness.

hmmmmm.......so you consider childish, proof of idiocy and mental illness, in anyone who does not feel it necessary to cart a loaded gun everywhere. We pay for police forces to make this sort of environment possible. Denying them access to tools that would help them to do their job, is paranoid and stupid.

We have laws regarding seat belts (which have saved thousands) restrictions of where one may smoke, (protecting children, service personel and clients of public buildings) and even restrictions of cell phones and texting while driving. Why should laws governing guns be exempt?? While those without seat belts, smokers and drivers with these dangerous actions do at times hurt more than themselves, they are infinitely less dangerous than a person driven to the edge, out to take revenge on the innocent with a legal gun!!

It seems to me, it would save quite a number of lives if the police could know how many and what type of weapons the person has access to before trying to save those under threat......mostly family, fellow employees, or school children.

Further, more resources should be employed in crippling the gun smuggling industry. And hey inspite of keeping track of the guns one owns, I am sure in the unlikelyhood of a home invasion one would still have enough fire power to blow those suckers to kingdom come

Geez imagine, generations of my family have escaped being killed or maimed by criminals with or without guns. Nowadays, one doesn't even catch a glimpse of those raiding one's bank account, gutting the retirement fund or cheating the roof from right over one's head. No gun will ever catch those people.

OMG........That is like trying to convince me that Guns are the equivalent of salvation of modern society, or that Christianity is the gentle,
anti-war, salvation necessary to saving the world for humans. You can't really believe this.



target practise, scaring off garden pests, scaring off intruders, knocking down avalanches, fast method of punching holes in metal.

LOl, Now do you use a human figure for target pratice?? Practicing to make sure it is a kill shot, if you ever had occasion to shoot another human? Lordy, shooting those aphids, or beatles can't leave much of the plants behind. Just out curiousity, how many intruders have you had over the years?? I suspect a starters gun would work equally well for starting an avalanche, though surely this sort of activity should be left to someone who knows what they are doing, not leaving it to someone who wants to use his gun. May I suggest picking your teeth with it?? Perhaps it would bring a quick finish to this silly nonsense Guns are made for killing. For any other dumb use, there are infinitely better solutions.
 

JLM

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LOl, Now do you use a human figure for target pratice?? Practicing to make sure it is a kill shot, if you ever had occasion to shoot another human? Lordy, shooting those aphids, or beatles can't leave much of the plants behind. Just out curiousity, how many intruders have you had over the years?? I suspect a starters gun would work equally well for starting an avalanche, though surely this sort of activity should be left to someone who knows what they are doing, not leaving it to someone who wants to use his gun. May I suggest picking your teeth with it?? Perhaps it would bring a quick finish to this silly nonsense Guns are made for killing. For any other dumb use, there are infinitely better solutions.

You obviously don't know much about garden pests, like magpies, crows and bluejays!
 

bluebyrd35

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You obviously don't know much about garden pests, like magpies, crows and bluejays!

Oh for Gawd's sake, I AM A FARMER. The biggest pests are those who feel, my crops of peas, beans and corn are there for the taking. Birds, or even raccoons are the least of my problems. Birds don't cart of sacks of veggies.

Besides, there are noise making machines that do a better job than a single person with a gun!! The macho solution is passe, the intelligent one is in.

Okay folks, I went crazy.

I got thinking about the insistence of the anti-gun folks that we don't want to be like the AMERICANS, with no gun control, and blood running in the streets! I had read that murder was so high in American ghettoes that it skewed national figures, as (obviously) there could be social causes for murder in those circumstances.........SOOOOOO

I went looking to isolate two populations, as close as possible in population make-up, culture, etc, with the ONLY difference being gun control laws. I settled on the west, the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta in Canada, and the three American states that border them, Montana, North Dakota, and Minnesota. These seemed to be the best examples, as they are the two areas of Canada and the United States that are the most alike in population culture, etc., yet most different in gun legislation.

Let me lay it out for you.

In Canada, before you buy a long gun, you must pass a safety course, undergo an investigation, get references including your spouse, obtain a license, and register the firearm. Most military semi-autos are prohibited. Semi-auto rifles can only have magazines with 5 rounds

In these states, if you want the semi-auto version of the American military M-16, you walk into the gun store, put down your cash, buy the piece and as many 30 round magazines as you like. You wait a federally-mandated 7 days, and go get your rifle. No license, no registration, no course, any rifle is OK.

In Canada, the vast majority of handguns are prohibited. If you want a handgun, you must either be a collector, or a target shooter. Self-defense is NOT allowed. You must have a long gun license (see above), pass ANOTHER course, and register your pistol. You must belong to a gun club, and you are ONLY allowed to transfer the weapon back and forth from the club to home, it must be trigger locked, and in a locked case.

If you want a handgun in any of these states, it is exactly the same as the process for buying a military "assault" rifle in the Sates, as laid out above. No license, no registration, no course, no NOTHING. NO handguns are prohibited.

In Canada, getting a license to carry a handgun is practically impossible.

In these states, the gov't MUST give you a license to carry a handgun for self-defense if you don't have a criminal record.

Just to make it clear, here are the ratings for the states given by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence: Montana (F), North Dakota (D), Minnesota ( C-)

Believe me, Canada would get an A+++ from Sarah Brady.

So, Canada is a wonderful, peaceful place where everyone is safe and happy, but step across the border and you trip over bodies and fall into the mess of blood, guts and expended shell casings, right?

Well, maybe not.

MURDER RATES
------------------------2000...2001...2002...2003...2004
Manitoba------------ 2.61...2.95...3.12...3.70... 4.27 (per 100,000)
(2002 - 1,151,000)-----30.....34......36.....43..... 49 (murders)

Saskatchewan------2.58...2.70... 2.71...4.12...3.92
(2002 - 1,000,000).... 26.... 27..... 27.....41.....39

Alberta---------------1.96...2.29... 2.25...2.03...2.69
(2002 - 3,056,000).... 60.....70......69.....62 .... 82

Montana.............1.80...3.80....1.80...3.30...3.20
(2003 - 917,000).......17.....35......17......30.....29

North Dakota.......0.60...1.10... 0.80....1.90...1.40
(2003 - 633,000)........4.......7.......5......12.......9

Minnesota..........3.10... 2.40... 2.20... 2.50...2.20
(2003 - 5,059,000)..157.....121.....111....126....111

HERE'S THE SHOCKER!


MURDER RATES PER 100,000
----------------------------------2000...2001...2002...2003...2004
Canada West-----------------2.22----2.52----2.54---2.80----3.26 (per 100,000)
Population 5,207,000........116.... 131.....132....146....170 (murders)

USA Northwest---------------2.69----2.47----2.01---2.54----2.25
Population 6,609,000........178.... 163......133....168.....149

GUN CONTROL IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME!
BTW Figuring this out took me HOURS.............Canadian stats are from Stats Canada, American Stats on population are from U.S. Population by State, 1790 to 2011 — FactMonster.com

American Stats on murder rates are from Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center

Facts on state gun laws are from Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

Math concerned is by ME.

Edited to say: DAMN, I had those all set out in coherent tables, but all spacing disappeared when I submitted it........so (being computer illiterate) I've used spacers......sorry about that)

You pick and choose your stats, like most others looking to prove their point. However, there are too many of us who know how stats can be skewed to suit!! On the whole we are intelligent, reasonable people who are capable of looking at all angles of a problem and can see beyond the stats issued by those invested in a particular outcome.

There isn't another democratic,reasonably civilized country, not involved in the production of guns, or drugs or at war, that rivals the shear numbers of deaths or woundings, by firearms, existing in the US today.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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First of all America and Canada are two different countries, here we decided civilization
was better than arming everyone to the teeth. I also have problems with the current gun
laws in Canada. No they do not stop gun crimes, but then nothing will stop gun crimes
short of not allowing guns period. We know that is not a practical answer in either country.

The difference in the two nations is not the gun its the outlook toward both society and the
gun. America is like a giant child that never grew up. We have certain rights and those are
ours and to hell with anyone who says different.
In Canada we by nature try to accommodate everyone, (sometimes that is troubling too) as
we all know you can't please everyone.
It comes down to this some gun control is required, at least a registration of firearms of some
kind. If we know who has a gun its likely they didn't commit the crime so look for the ones
that are not registered. The problem is, every time a government sets up a program they
are not satisfied until everyone is not satisfied. We could have registration through rod and
gun clubs, shooting ranges and a host of other groups that are enthusiasts. They could keep
the records and provide them when required it would save society a fortune.
I the industrialized world most people are responsible and take responsibility for their weapon
and have respect for society. In America lately they shoot you and claim self defence. It is all
in the attitude.
The other problem is this, in Europe and other places they use the laws on the books and they
prosecute those guilty of offences. Here we let the problem go, and it festers and people then
become angry and demand more laws, not realizing the problem is we don't enforce the laws
already provided. Making laws is useless unless they are going to be enforced.
REMEMBER most of the violent criminals are repeat offenders using the system like a revolving
door. What are they Doing on the street if they are violent criminals? And who puts them out on
the street. That is the heart of the problem.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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Your post is a unique gem.

When was the last time you used a gun to dig a hole? or to diaper a baby or to peel a potato??
lmao Look, Blooperbyrd, I didn't say a gun is a shovel. Jeezez.
A shovel as you noted is used generally to dig with. You probably could swat someone on the head with it, but there is no guarantee you would kill them. It is not the purpose of a shovel. When a gun is fired at a target, ie. a human it will kill or maim that person if your aim is any good at all. It has no other purpose than to KILL.
Flat out bullsh|t. Some guns are meant to hang on walls. Some are specifically meant to shoot clay pigeons with. Some are meant sopecifically to shoot pieces of paper at various distances. We have 8 posts between Salmo and Creston here that house guns. They are specifically meant to cause controlled avalanches along the highway.
You cannot use it as a spoon, a fork or a knife.
scoop some wood off the buttstock and you could use it as a shovel. Sit it on your desk and you could use it as a paperweight.
Ignorance is not bliss, it is evidence of stupidy, noithing more or less.
And it applies quite well to you.
A gun is generally used to shoot with, but not necessarily to kill, which was my point and it completely makes your claim about guns being used to kill ludicrous.[/QUOTE]

Why do you suggest that?? I certainly do not condone that sort of nonsense. On the other hand there should be teeth in the laws re smuggling hand guns and equipping police and customs officers to enforce our present laws. Without access free to smuggled guns, there would be a very small criminal element
BS. Home-made guns aren't tough to make.

Decent laws are not feel good. ie...no smoking in hospitals, or other public institutions. If one wants to subject their own children to second hand smoke there is not a lot the law can do about it. Seat belts are obligatory, and they do bring the death tolls down, sanitary laws in food production, etc. etc. This kind of discrimination against personal freedom, is probably abhored by some cave people, but the rest of us appreciate the protection. I am not trying to change human nature, only about respecting the rights of the majority to live a fear free life.
And most gun owners by far are law-abiding, given that the laws themselves make sense.

No more common sense left, and that makes me very sad.
Common sense once told us that the planet was flat, too. That's also pretty sad.
Good sense is a better quality, but unfortunatley it's not as plentiful as it should be. And you are proof of that.

An injured bear is a danger to humans too..
Or a diseased or an old bear.

You stated that guns had other purposes, other than killing or maiming. So suggest a few!!
I have many times and a couple times specifically to you. If you choose to ignore them, that's fine but when you keep posting the same sh|t about guns only being made to kill, you simply make yourself out to be a fool.

LOl, Now do you use a human figure for target pratice??
That form of target practise is called silhouette shooting. The rest of us use clay pigeons, square pieces of paper with bullseyes on them, etc.
Lordy, shooting those aphids, or beatles can't leave much of the plants behind.
Lordy, somehow you must've suvived haveing a few holes shot in your head, judging by the amount of intelligence and imagination you have.
Just out curiousity, how many intruders have you had over the years??
1 human, several members each of cougars, bears, coons, skunks.
I suspect a starters gun would work equally well for starting an avalanche, though surely this sort of activity should be left to someone who knows what they are doing, not leaving it to someone who wants to use his gun.
Maybe if you were standing on the snowpack about to give way you might use a starter pistol. It's pretty obvious you know nothing about avalanche control.
May I suggest picking your teeth with it?? Perhaps it would bring a quick finish to this silly nonsense Guns are made for killing.
In some cases, yes. Unfortunately, brains are used for thinking, except in your case.
For any other dumb use, there are infinitely better solutions.
Like what?