Ontario offers electricity deal

[Kakato]

You might have noticed that the rate also applies to refineries and gas plants. They certainly aren't miserly on electric consumption.

Thats why Suncor makes their own,and the surplus go's to Alta and BC

 

[Tonington]

Thats why Suncor makes their own,and the surplus go's to Alta and BC

As usual, you and Petros have completely missed the point. The point is, that the power consumed by residential customers costs more than the power consumed by industrial users. SaskPower residential users subsidize industrial users, as do most if not all residential power users in the country. Did either of you check the non-oil and gas rates at the SaskPower site?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Ontario is hardly different from other regions of the country in this respect.

 

[petros]

Thats why Suncor makes their own,and the surplus go's to Alta and BC

Maybe they don't have Co-Gen out east?

Co-generation


Cogeneration is a highly efficient means of generating heat and electric power at the same time from the same energy source. Displacing fossil fuel combustion with heat that would normally be wasted in the process of power generation, it reaches efficienciences that can triple, or even quadruple, conventional power generation. Although cogeneration has been in use for nearly a century, in the mid-1980s relatively low natural gas prices made it a widely attractive alternative for new power generation. In fact, gas-fired cogeneration is largely responsible for the decline in conventional power plant construction that occurred in North America during the 1980s. Cogeneration accounted for a large proportion of all new power plant capacity built in North America during much of the period in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

Cogeneration equipment can be fired by fuels other than natural gas. There are installations in operation that use wood, agricultural waste, peat moss, and a wide variety of other fuels, depending on local availability.

The environmental implications of cogeneration stem not just from its inherant efficiency, but also from its decentralized character. Because it is impractical to transport heat over any distance, cogeneration equipment must be located physically close to its heat user. A number of environmentally positive consequences flow from this fact: Power tends to be generated close to the power consumer, reducing transmission losses, stray current, and the need for distribution equipment significantly. Cogeneration plants tend to be built smaller, and owned and operated by smaller and more localized companies than simple cycle power plants. As a general rule, they are also built closer to populated areas, which causes them to be held to higher environmental standards. In northern Europe, and increasingly in North America, cogeneration is at the heart of district heating and cooling systems. District heating combined with cogeneration has the potential to reduce human greenhouse gas emissions by more than any other technology except public transit.

To understand cogeneration, it is necessary to know that most conventional power generation is based on burning a fuel to produce steam. It is the pressure of the steam which actually turns the turbines and generates power, in an inherently inefficient process. Because of a basic principle of physics no more than one third of the energy of the original fuel can be converted to the steam pressure which generates electricity. Cogeneration, in contrast, makes use of the excess heat, usually in the form of relatively low-temperature steam exhausted from the power generation turbines. Such steam is suitable for a wide range of heating applications, and effectively displaces the combustion of carbon-based fuels, with all their environmental implications.

In addition to cogeneration, there are a number of related technologies which make use of exhaust steam at successively lower temperatures and pressures. These are collectively known as "combined cycle" systems. They are more efficient than conventional power generation, but not as efficient as cogeneration, which normally produces about 30% power and 70% heat. Combined cycle technologies can be financially attractive despite their lower efficiencies, because they can produce proportionately more power and less heat. Environmentally, combined cycle systems are controversial, because the make low-cost power available, reducing the incentive for efficient consumption, and also because they are not as efficient as true cogeneration.

 

[Kakato]

We work right behind the rigs,they drill 2 holes and move 290 meters,2 more and move another 290 meters,we come up behind and tie in the last 2 or 4 or 6 wells and power lines,within an hour so us being off the lease the service rigs in fracking and within an hour of them leaving maintenance guys are there installing 2 pumpjacks behind us.This go's on for hundreds of miles every single day.
Thats a drill rig in the far back and a service rig in the front.

As usual, you and Petros have completely missed the point. The point is, that the power consumed by residential customers costs more than the power consumed by industrial users. SaskPower residential users subsidize industrial users, as do most if not all residential power users in the country. Did either of you check the non-oil and gas rates at the SaskPower site?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Ontario is hardly different from other regions of the country in this respect.

Alberta has the highest power prices in the country since deregulation.

 

[lone wolf]

So how do you offer Ontario industry cheaper hydro rates?

 

[damngrumpy]

If it increases business location to that Province why not? Residents have received cut
rates for years. We have to get Ontario moving.
The other great thing about this is maybe just maybe Canadian Provinces will start using
the resources for an advantage for Canadians and put an end to this world pricing crap.
We need to use what we have to better our own and sell the rest on world markets for inflated
prices. Resource industries don't need to be owned by governments but they need to be
regulated to the nth degree to ensure Canadians benefit first.
Those resources don't belong to the world they belong to Canadians we should see our
needs are served first. Good for Ontario. Now lets see the rest of Canada develop a
backbone. Maybe there is hope of scrapping some of these energy pacts yet.

 

[Kakato]

If it increases business location to that Province why not? Residents have received cut
rates for years. We have to get Ontario moving.
The other great thing about this is maybe just maybe Canadian Provinces will start using
the resources for an advantage for Canadians and put an end to this world pricing crap.
We need to use what we have to better our own and sell the rest on world markets for inflated
prices. Resource industries don't need to be owned by governments but they need to be
regulated to the nth degree to ensure Canadians benefit first.
Those resources don't belong to the world they belong to Canadians we should see our
needs are served first. Good for Ontario. Now lets see the rest of Canada develop a
backbone. Maybe there is hope of scrapping some of these energy pacts yet.

Most Ontarionites I see posting seem more worried about Alberta and sk then their own province.

 

[lone wolf]

Maybe that's because the thread was immediately hijacked to become another pillar from which Ka-Ka can sing praises of himself and the greater glory of Alberta....

You're as much a detriment to your cause as Reb is to his.

 

[petros]

So how do you offer Ontario industry cheaper hydro rates?

Get MB taxpayers to subsidize it?

 

[lone wolf]

Get MB taxpayers to subsidize it?

I hear the Cree Nation might have surplus

 

[Kakato]

Maybe that's because the thread was immediately hijacked to become another pillar from which Ka-Ka can sing praises of himself and the greater glory of Alberta....

You're as much a detriment to your cause as Reb is to his.

I dont have a cause except this one.

Every day above ground is a good day.

 

[Trex]

Actually Petros this pumpjack is running on propane.
You can see the tank in the picture.

A few of the old one lunger motors are also rigged to run on "stripped gas" or casing vent gas.

I did a small evaluation many decades ago on whether or not a pnuematic vac pump on the back side of the long string was worth while if we shot
tight little gas stringers to try and run the pump jack motor.

For some of us electricity is new fangled.

 

[petros]

I'd say it's diesel (tank in the back of photo) and the propane to heat the valve shack.

 

[Kakato]

Saskatchewan,the next middle east of the west.

 

[petros]

Saskatchewan,the next middle east of the west.

More oil than AB.

 

[Trex]

I'd say it's diesel (tank in the back of photo) and the propane to heat the valve shack.

Ummmm
There is no valve shack.
The white shack at the back of the pumpjack houses the pumpjack motor.
Any valves and manifolds can be seen on the ground in front of the pumpjack or attached to the wellhead just below the stuffing box.
The tank in the foreground is propane.
The tank in the back ground probably contains pipeline injection fluids (corrosion inhibitors,H2S inhibitor, wax solvents, methly alcohol or the like).
It may contain diesel if they are duel fueling the one lunger (summer- winter).
The shack really requires no external heat (apart from the pump jack motor) and if they really have cold problems in winter they probably will rig up a gravity methanol feed.
The shack is just for general protection from the elements
Still and all.
No electricity required.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Most Ontarionites I see posting seem more worried about Alberta and sk then their own province.

Most Ontarians I know and live, work hang out with don't bring Alberta up very much at all other then hockey etc. Most people I know are employed and don't covet your oil riches.

 

[Machjo]

You might not but lower income earners might disagree.

Maybe. But let's immagine this scenario:

A poor man buys a sweater and bed sheets for winter to save on electricity, yet he's penalized for this by having to pay various VATs, such as GST, PST, HST, etc.

Meanwhile, the guy who decides to wear a T-shirt indoors all winter is being rewarded by having me subsidize his electricity bill.

I'm all for helping the poor, but let's do so responsibly.

Let's say for instance taht we waved all VATs on clothing, shelter, and let's say all cholesterol-free foods, and maybe also extend it to any product that helps to reduce the consumption of non-renewable energy resources, such as solar panels, etc. and maybe extend it even to man-powered modes of transportation such as bicycles, skis, etc. (I knew one guy who skated to work across the Rideau Canal in winter).

This might cause a revenue shortfall, but that could be compensated for via some kind of resource tax, or even simply by raising the gas tax.

This would help the poor too, but ensure that it's helping the poor who help themselves, not those who don't. This would mean that the poor who do buy an extra sweater or bed sheets in winter will be rewarded rather than the one who just turns the heat up, or who sell their car and buy a bicycle so as to reward those who try to reduce their gas consumption, city traffic, and show consideration for asthmatics rather than the gas-guzzlers who crowd our streets.

I don't mind helping the poor, but I'd rather help those poor who also try to make a positive contribution in their choices rather than those who don't care.

Subsidizing my electricity bill helps the wrong kind of people.

 

[petros]

Would "pay as you go" electric and gas meters keep the poor in line?

 

[Machjo]

Would "pay as you go" electric and gas meters keep the poor in line?

Sure... as long as it's not subsidized. There are better ways of helping the poor than encouraging them to use electricity carelessly.