The European Civil War

[Colpy]

WWII referred to as the European Civil War: The EU cannot be serious?

By Donal Blaney
PUBLISHED: 10:37 GMT, 18 April 2012 | UPDATED: 11:03 GMT, 18 April 2012

The great polemicist Richard Littlejohn has a phrase that sits alongside Victor Meldrew's "I don't believe it!" as being increasingly apt.

Littlejohn frequently says "You Couldn't Make It Up" (and it became the name of a book he published) - and for good reason.

Increasingly we find ourselves shaking our heads as yet another astonishing pronouncement comes from on high that we, the governed, are expected to take in our strides.

Latest project: The EU plans to open a £44m museum to promote 'an awareness of European identity' that will be a House of European History. This vanity project in and of itself is an offensive waste of money as governments and peoples tighten belts across Europe.



But what I found most offensive of all is that World War II is to be described as "the European Civil War".

That's right: a European Civil War that saws millions fight and die in theatres around the world in places as diverse as Tobruk, Pearl Harbour and the Burma Railway.

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House of European History museum: EU cannot be serious? | Mail Online

It Takes Two to Tango - By Mark Steyn - The Corner - National Review Online

 

[earth_as_one]

Sure it was a Eurabian civil war. Another war took place in the Pacific around the same time...

 

[taxslave]

Sure it was a Eurabian civil war. Another war took place in the Pacific around the same time...

Next you will tell us the Holocaust didn't happen.

 

[Colpy]

Sure it was a Eurabian civil war. Another war took place in the Pacific around the same time...

Actually, in his book War of the World, Harvard historian Niall Ferguson makes a very good case for considering the Japanese invasion of China in July of 1937 the beginning of World War Two

 

[earth_as_one]

I'd agree with that. Western History is Western-centric. During the 1937 Rape of Nanking and other atrocities around the same time, Japanese soldiers raped and murdered hundreds of thousands if not millions of innocent civilians.The resulting US led embargo of Imperial Japan set the stage for Pearl Harbor

Next you will tell us the Holocaust didn't happen.

Next you will tell us that you like <insert false accusation here>

or do you have a quote from me to back that up?

We've discussed the Holocaust here before. My view is that millions of people were killed during WW II. The Holocaust typically refers to only Jewish civilians who were systematically exterminated during WW II. It typically ignores millions of other people who aren't Jewish and were exterminated at the same time in the same death camps, creating a deliberately manipulated perception that the Nazis only exterminated Jews. Likely Jews made up about 50% of the extermination victims. Roma, Slavs, Poles, Russian POWs, Blacks, Gays, Jehovah Witnesses... made up the other 50%.

The Holocaust is a relatively recent term. It was first use by scholars in the 1960's and entered into popular use in the 1970's. Unfortunately Israeli apologists like yourself have resorted to referencing the Holocaust and other Jewish suffering to stifle legitimate criticism of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.

I agree with British MP Gerald Kaufman.
"The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from Gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians," he said.
UK Jewish MP: Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza - YouTube

 

[Colpy]

We've discussed the Holocaust here before. My view is that millions of people were killed during WW II. The Holocaust typically refers to only Jewish civilians who were systematically exterminated during WW II. It typically ignores millions of other people who aren't Jewish and were exterminated at the same time in the same death camps, creating a deliberately manipulated perception that the Nazis only exterminated Jews. Likely Jews made up about 50% of the extermination victims. Roma, Slavs, Poles, Russian POWs, Blacks, Gays, Jehovah Witnesses... made up the other 50%.

The Holocaust is a relatively recent term. It was first use by scholars in the 1960's and entered into popular use in the 1970's. Unfortunately Israeli apologists like yourself have resorted to referencing the Holocaust and other Jewish suffering to stifle legitimate criticism of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.

I agree with British MP Gerald Kaufman.
"The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from Gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians," he said.
UK Jewish MP: Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza - YouTube

Some points;

You are correct that Jews made up only about 50% to 60% of those murdered in concentration camps and by einsatzgruppen in the field. However, the way you put that makes it appear Jews were no more victimized than other groups.....and that is simply untrue.

One half were Jews.

One half were Roma, Russian POWs, the physically handicapped, political subversives, resistance fighters, Slavs, Poles, blacks, gays, Jehovah's Witnesses, the mentally handicapped, etc etc etc.......as you said.

There was no group that even approached the number of Jewish dead. Not even close.

When you consider that the Holocaust was simply the climax of 1,000 years of European Jew hatred, murder, and persecution, then the truth becomes obvious:

Zionism is only good sense.

 

[petros]

 

[MHz]

There was no group that even approached the number of Jewish dead. Not even close.

Up to 10X as many. Now be quite you are embarrassing the ones you say you support You don't accidentally starve 20M people and you have shown that all others except Jews are one group, you just gave up counting before your number for the Holocaust was surpassed, many times as it turns out.
Total dead
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties


World War II fatality statistics vary, with estimates of total dead ranging from 50 million to over 70 million.[1] The sources cited in this article document an estimated death toll in World War II of 62 to 78 million, making it the deadliest war in world history in absolute terms of total dead but not in terms of deaths relative to the world population.


When scholarly sources differ on the number of deaths in a country, a range of war losses is given, in order to inform readers that the death toll is disputed. Civilians killed totaled from 40 to 52 million, including 13 to 20 million from war-related disease and famine. Total military dead: from 22 to 25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 5 million prisoners of war.

Actually, in his book War of the World, Harvard historian Niall Ferguson makes a very good case for considering the Japanese invasion of China in July of 1937 the beginning of World War Two

That doesn't eliminate WWI as not having some events that acted as a factor in new hostilities just 20 years later.

 

[earth_as_one]

Colpy I'm not trying to minimize what happened to Jewish civilians during WW II. The evidence is overwhelming that a majority of European Jews perished as a result of Nazi extermination policies.

But the Roma were just as targeted as Jews. The difference is that by the time most Roma were being hunted down, they already knew their fate if captured. As a result a greater % evaded capture.

The fate of Roma in some ways paralleled that of the Jews. Under the Nazi regime, German authorities subjected Roma to arbitrary internment, forced labor, and mass murder. German authorities murdered tens of thousands of Roma in the German-occupied territories of the Soviet Union and Serbia and thousands more in the killing centers at Auschwitz-Birkenau, Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. The SS and police incarcerated Roma in the Bergen-Belsen, Sachsenhausen, Buchenwald, Dachau, Mauthausen, and Ravensbrück concentration camps. Both in the so-called Greater German Reich and in the so-called Generalgouvernement, German civilian authorities managed several forced-labor camps in which they incarcerated Roma....
...Of slightly less than one million Roma believed to have been living in Europe before the war, the Germans and their Axis partners killed up to 220,000. ...
Genocide of European Roma (Gypsies), 1939-1945

The Roma never got their own country. They are still persecuted today. In Europe, being Jewish is far less problematic than being Roma.

I think that historians should be free to examine Nazi extermination policies in order to determine more accurately what happened. But now this whole issue has become a political football. Legitimate historians can't go near this subject or question what actually happened. That would end their careers. Questioning the Holocaust would question Israel's legitimacy, which is why powerful people stomp on legitimate historians and why anti-Semites want to re-open this question.

As far as I'm concerned, you can't fix or compensate for an injustice by creating another injustice...

I could support Zionism, if it didn't involve the forced and often violent ethnic cleansing of 1 million + people who had the misfortune of living on the land Zionists claimed was a land without people. If these people sold their possession and left voluntarily (with a sizable compensation package), then I'd support it. In hindsite that would have been a far less expensive solution. the current situation is unsustainable.

Zionism only makes sense for Zionists. For most Palestinians, Zionism is a means to take their land and property and deny them their fundamental human rights.For these people, Zionism has been a disaster.

Eventually it will be a disaster for Jews too, when it ends... That is not a wish, but what I believe is the inevitable result of some Jews and their supporters using armed commercialism as a means to commit a series of atrocities, war crimes and crimes against humanity. A few million people can't keep pissing off 1.4 billion people forever. The power balance shift is already well under way.

Back on track... I agree with your original statement that WW II already started by the time Germany invaded Poland in 1939. Before 1939, it wasn't a World War yet. The conflict was just a regional war limited to East Asia.

 

[MHz]

I think that historians should be free to examine Nazi extermination policies in order to determine more accurately what happened. But now this whole issue has become a political football. Legitimate historians can't go near this subject or question what actually happened. That would end their careers. Questioning the Holocaust would question Israel's legitimacy, which is why powerful people stomp on legitimate historians and why anti-Semites want to re-open this question.

As far as I'm concerned, you can't fix or compensate for an injustice by creating another injustice...

Extermination did not die at the end of WWII, the Nazis were not erased from the face of the earth, while price-tags were being levied in the remains of the German citizens some of the worst criminals of the Nazis were being sheltered by the same ones who were fighting against them. You can understand why that was not widely publicized to the American people. Everything that was done to civilians during WWII was done to civilians of Central and South America starting not long after WWII, Iran certainly experienced the results of Nazis instructors in how to decimate resistance and rule a population through fear, examples being readily given. Start parading 10,000 of them through the UN and no testimony from before then even need be mentioned and like it or not those people were not under war time conditions so the crimes against then should get many bosses hung.

Extermination is just fine with the world or something would have been done to help those victims, as it is the two that got away are mocked by most here, that means your judgment is clouded as to how to prevent it happening.

Enough injustice there that is newer and ongoing that you would never run out of material, just expect to be ignored, if your posts didn't have Jew all over the place nobody would even notice them,

Slavery was supposed to be outlawed, that is still going on in the world, all Nations are willingly involved in that, no wonder it never gets fixed.

Damn, I forgot the ones training the death and terror squads are the ones in control today. What should the German people have done to stop the slaughter that was WWII. Seems like a lot of funded Govt watchdogs that were independent publishers (easy with the net) so the public did not get the version after it had gone through sever PR firms that helped hide the seriousness of the 'event'.

First false-flag by the German Gov, fire them all and have them locked up during the investigation by some selected members of the UN that are nor allied with the big 5. 5yrs and then heads roll if they subversive with hidden agendas not in the interest of the public good.

If we keep following just what they did (as far as keeping an eye on what was going on) then how can the results be any different, only in this case we become the Nazis and the rest of the world is against us and they win.