Mandatory Minimums - Off we go to the SCOC

WLDB

Senate Member
Jun 24, 2011
6,182
0
36
Ottawa
These cons do scare the bejazus outa me. An, I'm too much of a gentleman to say "I told ya"..............

Nothing we can do but make a lot of noise, object, write letters,

Did anyone really know Harpo was a "Hitler in waiting"??

Not only can these idiots not see the writing on the wall, they have trouble finding the wall.

Hopefully we still have the right to vote in 4 years.

I dont agree with Harper on much, particularly not in his crime bill, but you`re just being extremely paranoid. Fearing the changes he can and probably will do is one thing, comparing him to a tyrant who used mass murder to suppress opposition is totally unjustified.

Mandatory minimums I can see for things like murder or other very violent crimes. Non-violent crimes should not have mandatory minimums.
 

relic

Council Member
Nov 29, 2009
1,408
3
38
Nova Scotia
Too much of a gentleman,not me,I told y'z so,a few times,and it's going to get stupider,the smarm king and his minions are just getting started.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,784
458
83
My apologies.
Read that again - MF - I beat you to a slam the Cons. A new record. Lol




Next time you won't be so lucky.. ;)
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
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Stephen Harper's incoherent crime policy: R. Roy McMurtry, Edward L. Greenspan and Anthony N. Doob | Full Comment | National Post

By R. Roy McMurtry, Edward L. Greenspan and Anthony N. Doob

With all the talk about the Harper government’s omnibus crime bill, it would be easy to miss the real significance of the Prime Minister’s crime policy. The debate has focused largely on important but narrow issues such as whether people should be sentenced to a minimum of six or nine months in prison for growing six marijuana plants or whether we should stigmatize young people found guilty of minor assaults by publishing their names, and whether our laws should prohibit certain non-prison punishments for crimes such as break-and-enter.

The sum of the Harper crime policy is simultaneously less and more than the sum of its parts. The more fundamental issue that a crime policy should address is basic: How do we, as Canadians, want to respond to those who have committed crimes?

A starting point might be to consider a few simple truths about crime that need to be considered in a sensible overall crime policy.

Many young Canadians commit relatively minor offences — drug possession, breaking-and-entering, shoplifting — that could see them imprisoned.
As people get older, they become dramatically less likely to commit offences.
In many cases, if someone avoids reoffending for five to 15 years, their odds of committing a crime again become the same as the segment of the population that has never offended.
About 262,000 people are found guilty of criminal offences each year. Eighty-six thousand go to prison, at a cost of up to $117,000 per year per inmate.
Compared to rehabilitation in the community, prison makes people more likely to reoffend (though, of course, in some instances, prison is the only option).
One in seven Canadian males has a criminal record.
There are known, effective ways to reduce crime. Changing criminal laws alone will have little if any impact on crime.
The Harper crime policy is less than the sum of its parts because it does not add up to a crime policy that addresses, or even acknowledges, these basic facts. It squanders resources that could be used to reduce crime. Making it more difficult for people to get out from under the shadow of their much earlier offences (through a pardon or “record suspension”) makes it harder for millions of Canadians with criminal records to reintegrate into society. Adding mandatory minimum penalties will do nothing to deter offenders, who, the data demonstrate, do not expect to get caught.

But the Harper crime policy is more than the sum of its parts because it tells us that the government is committed to ignoring evidence about crime, and does not care about whether our criminal-justice system is just and humane.

The student who grows six marijuana plants in her rented apartment to share with friends will soon face a mandatory minimum sentence of nine months in prison. Meanwhile, assaults have no mandatory minimum sentences. The law says that trial judges are required to impose sentences proportional to their seriousness and the offender’s responsibility for the offence. Is someone who grows six marijuana plants much more dangerous than someone who grows five (for which there is no minimum sentence)? Or who commits an assault? The Harper Tories seemingly think so.

The government has closed its eyes to the possibility that people convicted of a crime can turn their lives around or be fundamentally good people who made one mistake. So they eliminate pardons, or arbitrarily make them more difficult to obtain. Vic Toews, the Minister of Public Safety, has proposed that the application fee for a pardon be raised from $150 to $631, saying, “We believe that ordinary Canadians shouldn’t have to be footing the bill for a criminal asking for a pardon.” Look carefully at his words. Citizens don’t get pardons, criminals do, even if that criminal has lived crime free, paid their taxes and perhaps even voted Conservative for 20 years.

The Tories are right that their incoherent crime plan is a major shift in Canadian justice policy. But this shift will not serve us well.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
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Ontario
A government that is willing to treat its own core base as expendable, should not be trusted.
Illegal gun owners are the Conservative core base?

And let's not lose sight that there was a search warrant being executed on the premises for possession of illegal weapons. And that Smikle was physically in possession of a restricted, illegal firearm.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
Illegal gun owners are the Conservative core base?

And let's not lose sight that there was a search warrant being executed on the premises for possession of illegal weapons. And that Smikle was physically in possession of a restricted, illegal firearm.


So......................................Smikle does deserve 3 years in prison?
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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Illegal gun owners are the Conservative core base?

And let's not lose sight that there was a search warrant being executed on the premises for possession of illegal weapons. And that Smikle was physically in possession of a restricted, illegal firearm.

Has no record - His cousin owned the weapons - does he deserve 3 years in jail. I would say no. He now has a criminal record, I think he learned a lesson.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
So......................................Smikle does deserve 3 years in prison?

Has no record - His cousin owned the weapons - does he deserve 3 years in jail.

I really don't have an opinion on mandatory minimums. I'm still waiting to see child pornographers and diddlers get real sentences.

But I can assure you, having done time, I go out of my way to avoid committing offences that carry the possibility of prison sentences.

Just out of curiousity, do any of you have a problem with pedo's and kiddie pornographers getting mandatory punitive sentences?
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
I have problems with manditory minimum sentences period, with this case being a prime example of why one size does NOT fit all.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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I really don't have an opinion on mandatory minimums. I'm still waiting to see child pornographers and diddlers get real sentences.

But I can assure you, having done time, I go out of my way to avoid committing offences that carry the possibility of prison sentences.

Just out of curiousity, do any of you have a problem with pedo's and kiddie pornographers getting mandatory punitive sentences?

The sentences for these freaks is what??? Not sure what they get.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
I have problems with manditory minimum sentences period, with this case being a prime example of why one size does NOT fit all.
Though I agree on some levels, I find myself not caring in this instance.

For a couple reasons...

1, He's in a home with what he knows or ought to know are illegal weapons.
2, He was in possession of a restricted, illegal weapon, when the Police executed a search warrant for illegal weapons.
3, I don't know anybody that isn't aware of the fact the weapons offences, are deemed serious by the Police and Crown.

Is posing for a pic with an illegal firearm worthy 3 years in Federal custody?

I don't know.

Are illegal hand guns a problem in Canada?

The sentences for these freaks is what??? Not sure what they get.
Last I heard, less than for growing 6 pot plants.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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Now Lorne Gunter is as Conservative as you can get.

Lorne Gunter: In defence of mandatory minimums and Leroy Smickle | Full Comment | National Post

Lorne Gunter: In defence of mandatory minimums and Leroy Smickle

Leroy Smickle may be a dolt — and a vaguely geeky dolt at that — but he is certainly not a criminal who should go to prison for three years.

In March of 2009, Mr. Smickle was sitting around in his underwear at 2:00 in the morning, trying to man-up his Facebook page with a few webcam photos of himself in boxers, a camisole T-shirt and sunglasses, waving a loaded handgun around in front of his face. Stupid, sure, and nerdy, but hardly a sinister threat to public safety.

When a Toronto police tactical squad battered its way into the apartment where Mr. Smickle was performing his macho routine (they had a warrant for his cousin), Mr. Smickle was so startled he instantly dropped the pistol and knocked his laptop to the floor. (No kidding.)

But because Mr. Smickle was in possession of a loaded, restricted weapon at the time he was interrupted, he was charged with a gun crime. And thanks to changes to the Criminal Code that the minority Tory government managed to push through Parliament in 2008, gun crimes now carry minimum three-year prison terms.

The notion that underwear-poser Leroy Smickle deserves the same sentence as a bank robber or an attempted murderer is absurd. Thankfully, Madame Justice Anne Malloy of the Ontario Superior Court agreed. She ruled the mandatory minimum sentence law unconstitutional and imposed one year of house arrest on Mr. Smickle, instead.

The Smickle case does not prove that the Tories’ tough-on-crime agenda is misguided. Rather, it shows that federal politicians, regardless of their stripe, and justice officials at both the federal and provincial level, need a more common-sense definition of what constitutes a gun crime. At the very least, the Smickle decision shows that even the pro-gun Tories need to be far more careful when drafting gun legislation.

Those Canadians — me included — who favoured the get-tough law when it passed, never imagined it would be implemented so ridiculously. A gun crime means a violent crime committed with a gun, not an administrative crime involving the mere possession of a gun.

“In my opinion, a reasonable person knowing the circumstances of this case and the principles underlying both the Charter and the general sentencing provision of the Criminal Code, would consider a three-year sentence to be fundamentally unfair, outrageous, abhorrent and intolerable,” Justice Molloy said, correctly.

Her words will undoubtedly be used by those who oppose the Tories’ get-tough-on-crime initiatives to discredit the government’s mandatory-minimum sentencing laws. But such arguments amount to throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The Tories should continue to get tough on criminals, but redraft their laws so that ordinary gun owners (and even goofs such as Leroy Smickle) aren’t treated by the justice system with the same severity as rapists, killers and drug dealers who use guns in the commission of real crimes.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Those Canadians — me included — who favoured the get-tough law when it passed, never imagined it would be implemented so ridiculously. A gun crime means a violent crime committed with a gun, not an administrative crime involving the mere possession of a gun.

Yes, well that's a real problem isn't it? There were plenty of people in the know, who know how our justice system works who were saying exactly things like this would happen.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,665
113
Northern Ontario,
Since this was passed by a minority government....it would mean that some in the other parties voted for it except for the Liberals who just abstained, as it was passed in the House 172-27.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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Since this was passed by a minority government....it would mean that some in the other parties voted for it except for the Liberals who just abstained, as it was passed in the House 172-27.

We should have an election, past and present Members of Parliament to be excluded from running.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Since this was passed by a minority government....it would mean that some in the other parties voted for it except for the Liberals who just abstained, as it was passed in the House 172-27.

Aint democracy great? Twenty-seven with some semblance of sanity, and the rest are cowards and fools.