And telling people they are going to burn in hell if they don't believe as you do is compassion? You be weird.
What would YOU want to hear at church?
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it is really very boring to go from one church to the other, different denominations, and hear how
each one preaches their way as the only way, no different to all the car dealerships trying
to sell their own brand.
no wonder many turn away and see it all as a game of advertising and much like a political gathering.
they all 'insist', in 'their' preaching as well. More and more are seeing all of it as a scam and a
fake insistance, trying to put the guilt trip on many, so they will follow like little sheep.
I have chosen 'not' to follow anyone of them, that is my choice, and I don't 'insist' on anyone else
doing anything I do, be true to yourself and do what you must, or not.
Paul Washer is as sadly delusional as yourself. You start out with the false assumption that we need a god who creates us imperfect, who judges us for being imperfect, then kills his own sun to pay for him creating us imperfect. It is beyond belief that anyone would buy into this nonsense, but there you are. Truly as silly as anything Monty Python has done.
lol The appeal to emotion again? Jeez, I can't screw their logic up so I'll sound the trumpets loudly and hope they'll get swallowed up in the grandiose display.
The basic facts? According to whom or what? A book that claims it is factual? People who claim facts according to this book?
Sorry, but the entire book is based upon a big "maybe". Any facts that may be derived from it are incidental until the original issue is concluded as being fact.
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Is a warning about a danger the same thing as shoving somebody into that danger? Can't you see the difference? If I didn't have compassion, then maybe I wouldn't warn people.
Hey, I agree with you that there are a lot of unhealthy and sometimes downright wicked churches out there. I've "gone from one to another" like you and found the same thing. Yes, there are scams, there are lies. The scripture said these false teachers would rise, and they have.
All I'm insisting is that there is only one Christ, and that He is the Truth and the Way. You can find all kinds of errors and lies in various churches, but you cannot find sin or lie or error in Him.
You may, I pray, find a congregation that is Biblical -- and where they are Biblical you will see (1) preaching that is Biblical; (2) healthy congregation bearing the fruits of the Spirit; (3) healthy church structure that deals with sin problems instead of sweeping them under the curtain and allowing them to leaven the whole church. We're all people, all subject to our weak flesh -- we thrive when we are hearing the true gospel that frees us from slavery to fear and sin, and when we are held accountable by each other -- as part of our love for each other.
That part is fine with me. People can believe in Whoville (Dr.Seuss's invention) if they want.
I don't care about that. You prefer illusion over reality, that's up to you. Where I will step in is when you call your illusion, reality. It isn't and likely never will be.
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Nope. He created us perfect. We became imperfect by our own choices. He judges us because of our choices and actions (are you innocent? I'm not). He killed his Son because that was the only way to show mercy to you -- yet you accuse Him of not being merciful. It's outrageous that you spurn his long-suffering generosity and then act like He's not being merciful. He's the King who owed me nothing but died for me. How dare I speak against this?
I wasn't expecting you to feel any emotions about that.
Possibly but you fail to realize that people can arrive at the same thing as what the Bible claims Yeshua was saying without any help from him or his ideals anyway.
IOW, there's more than one way to skin a cat. It isn't the messenger that's important, it's the message. And the message Yeshua carried is vastly different than that of his alter-ego. Yeshua was about love and compassion (which is a perfectly valid and wonderful ideal, however unrealistic it may be) and his alter-ego was about his ego basically; worship me and do as I say or you are toast. And the OT is crammed full of that (besides all the bullshyte claims about creation, 1000 yr old humans, burning bushes that talk, humans that split seas, 40 day rains that submerge the planet in water, etc.). And yet people believe that authoritarian, despotic crap over other stuff that's equally as unbelievable.
Why should we trust the book? I can't tell you how many times people have torn it apart and shown the BS in it.
Like I said before, I could condense the stupid thing down to 2 useful concepts. the rest is either fluff or it's straight-out crap.
lol Then why all the fluffy adjectives about "like an army, clothed in His glory", " the ground will shake with their singing", "king of kings", etc.? Sure sounds like a pile of bombastic blather to me.
I could probably tolerate Bible thumpers a little better if they stated their point ONCE and then shut the Hell up. But regurgitating the same old garbage a thousand times over does nothing to enhance their credibility! :roll:
That's a key point of Christian dogma that seems utterly senseless to me. A perfect creature by definition would not make wrong choices. I see no way around that, the claim cannot possibly be true. He knowingly creates us flawed, tells us it's our own fault and holds us responsible for the consequences, condemns us if we fail to correct ourselves, and arranges to have a man horribly murdered as a scapegoat for what's wrong with us. I think that's actively evil, and a wicked thing to tell to children.
If I hadn't do you think I'd know there are passages that conflict with Alley's God is Jesus is God snake oil? What I read in the Bible is quite obviously something other than what you read in the Bible, or what Alley reads into the Bible, or what your "pastor" reads in the Bible or what the Pope reads in the Bible or....
Get the point?
Throwing logic out the window on the first point, way to go. To get an inkling of what the bible covers you have to read it. Understanding it correctly is only slightly less important to the reading part. The accept or reject as you see fit, thos justifications do make all the differences in the world, as far as logic and sanity go. The summations you have for why you reject the texts would not be the same ones I would use to justify why I believe the 'story'.
The cat would prefer to be dead, the butcher would also prefer it that way I'm sure. A dozer operator is said to be a 'cat-skinner', does that qualify as 'the other way'?
That 'peace and love' includes killing 2/3's of the world's population in the first few hours of His return. Those few hours are called 'great tribulation' and the 7 vials show why it has earned the name 'Great Tribulation'.
God only gave Adam 1 Law, worship wasn't included, that only came as part of the exodus out of Egypt. That doesn't mean fallen angels didn't demand worship in their dealings with men prior to the flood.
If anybody was slated to be toast then why is everybody convieved going to be alive and standing when the new earth is revealed? I agree that not all paths are as 'smooth' as others but they all ebventually lead to the same open door.
Depends on how you take it, as it is it is a one page summation of more than 13B years our time, perhaps the fact that He wrote more about other things also means those other things are 'more important' to the 'big picture', those also have to 'be studied' do they not?
No, he made us responsible for some dude a hundred thousand years ago who decided to get smart against this moronic god's will (original sin). So we are born imperfect according to you and the bible. Am I innocent? You bet you bippy! Am I responsible for what other people do? Absolutely not. Did Jesus die for my sins? No because I had committed no sins at the time he supposedly died and I am innocent of sin in this life because I reject your views of god, religion, sin and that your god was such a psychopath as to make us responsible for some guy who disobeyed him 100 - 200 thousand years ago. That is right, your god is a psychopath. If you were created in his own image, well.....
Perfect in that they were sin free and they had access to food that would have kept them alive eternally as long as they remained sinfree and the garden was there. Eve simple believed what she was told by Adam and later by Satan. Satan made the wrong choice that day, death coming to Adam and Even (and all their children) is a consequence of Satan's actions. A 'creature' who is innocent of knowing a lie exists would not have to 'question everything' when she had been given instructions to be Adam's 'helper' rather than 'instructor'. Apparently knowing about good and evil doesn't make you smarter unless the punishment Satan got back then was 'part of the plan' he had to un-throne God.
We were eternal being who had not sinned, how is that flawed, in the new earth we will be sinless and immortal, how is that a change from 'the original plan'?
Children aren't the only ones ever lied to, and some people who believe the lies today are no more questioning than a child is, trusting, just like Eve was, same as everybody before they were first lied to and they found out.
We have as much hope as being perfect and not sinned against as we do about the choice of even being conceived.
You are wrong. Jesus didn't just bring a system of knowledge or a guidebook for life. He absorbed the wrath of God in his death; and he rose from the grave. You can't arrive at that some other way. If he really is who he says he is; if he really did what he said he did; then the consequences are massive, and no teaching or moral system is going to achieve what he has achieved.
So you'd prefer to live a Hell on Earth relaxed in your 'knowledge' things will be better on the other side? I suspect your disappointment won't be known unto you - but you'll have wasted a lot of good time in the here and now groveling in guilts imposed by a 2000 year old collection of "gospels according to..."
There you go again, judging people by your primitive beliefs. Les is not wrong to anybody but you and you are wrong to everybody else on here. Do you get how that works? Jesus never claimed anything that you claim he did because what you believe is second, third and fourth hand hearsay evidence written decades to centuries after the fact, embellished by each retelling, re-translated into several languages, altered to suit various people over millennium for mostly political reasons and then open to interpretation by a billion different people. Yet you have the audacity to speak with authority on this Jesus dude as if you knew him personally. That is the epitome of arrogance and self righteousness.
That's the error in argument called moving the goal posts. Sin free is not the same as perfect and pretending it is invalidates everything that follows. You can't escape the conclusion that way. If we were once sin free and aren't anymore it's because we were created capable of sin. Not perfect.
"If"? I see that you are now admitting that you aren't sure that he is who he says he is.