Was WWII about what we were told it was about?

[Cliffy]

Received this in an email. Thought it was interesting.

Have seen some of these before. So, what has changed in 60 years? The misinformation from the controllers goes on today.
There are many false quotes also attributed to WC in order to support him as a hero. What isn't recorded is how he fled London to the west of London BEFORE each time the German planes came over the UK. He knew precisely when the raids were coming and chose NOT to be with his people - unlike Hitler who stood in his bunker the duration of the war with his people.

History is upside down back the front, as it is today.

Winston Churchill Quotes:​

World War 1
"Should Germany merchandise (do business) again in the next 50 years we have led this war (WW1) in vain."
- Winston Churchill in The Times (1919)


World War 2
"We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not." - Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast)

"Germany becomes too powerful. We have to crush it." - Winston Churchill (November 1936 speaking to US - General Robert E. Wood)


"This war is an English war and its goal is the destruction of Germany."
- Winston Churchill (- Autumn 1939 broadcast)


"The war wasn’t only about abolishing fascism, but to conquer sales markets. We could have, if we had intended so, prevented this war from breaking out without doing one shot, but we didn’t want to."
- Winston Churchill to Truman (Fultun, USA March 1946)

"Germany’s unforgivable crime before WW2 was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up an independent exchange system from which the world-finance couldn’t profit anymore. ...We butchered the wrong pig."
-Winston Churchill (The Second World War - Bern, 1960)


"We made a monster, a devil out of Hitler. Therefore we couldn’t disavow it after the war. After all, we mobilized the masses against the devil himself. So we were forced to play our part in this diabolic scenario after the war. In no way we could have pointed out to our people that the war only was an economic preventive measure."
- US foreign minister James Baker (1992)

"Not the political doctrine of Hitler has hurled us into this war. The reason was the success of his increase in building a new economy. The roots of war were envy, greed and fear."
- Major General J.F.C. Fuller, historian, England

"We didn’t go to war in 1939 to save Germany from Hitler...or the continent from fascism. Like in 1914, we went to war for the not lesser noble cause that we couldn’t accept a German hegemony over Europe."
- Sunday Correspondent, London (17.9.1989)

"The enemy is the German Reich and not Nazism, and those who still haven’t understood this, haven’t understood anything." – Churchill’s chief counselor Robert Lord Vansittart (as said to foreign minister Lord Halifax, September 1940)

"Lies come along first, and drag along the gullible. ​

Truth limps in long afterwards, hanging on the arms of time.”​

- Balthazar Gracian

 

[petros]

It was Britain and France who declared war on Germany

 

[Colpy]

Received this in an email. Thought it was interesting.

Have seen some of these before. So, what has changed in 60 years? The misinformation from the controllers goes on today.
There are many false quotes also attributed to WC in order to support him as a hero. What isn't recorded is how he fled London to the west of London BEFORE each time the German planes came over the UK. He knew precisely when the raids were coming and chose NOT to be with his people - unlike Hitler who stood in his bunker the duration of the war with his people.

History is upside down back the front, as it is today.

Winston Churchill Quotes:​

World War 1
"Should Germany merchandise (do business) again in the next 50 years we have led this war (WW1) in vain."
- Winston Churchill in The Times (1919)


World War 2
"We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not." - Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast)

"Germany becomes too powerful. We have to crush it." - Winston Churchill (November 1936 speaking to US - General Robert E. Wood)


"This war is an English war and its goal is the destruction of Germany."
- Winston Churchill (- Autumn 1939 broadcast)


"The war wasn’t only about abolishing fascism, but to conquer sales markets. We could have, if we had intended so, prevented this war from breaking out without doing one shot, but we didn’t want to."
- Winston Churchill to Truman (Fultun, USA March 1946)

"Germany’s unforgivable crime before WW2 was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up an independent exchange system from which the world-finance couldn’t profit anymore. ...We butchered the wrong pig."
-Winston Churchill (The Second World War - Bern, 1960)


"We made a monster, a devil out of Hitler. Therefore we couldn’t disavow it after the war. After all, we mobilized the masses against the devil himself. So we were forced to play our part in this diabolic scenario after the war. In no way we could have pointed out to our people that the war only was an economic preventive measure."
- US foreign minister James Baker (1992)

"Not the political doctrine of Hitler has hurled us into this war. The reason was the success of his increase in building a new economy. The roots of war were envy, greed and fear."
- Major General J.F.C. Fuller, historian, England

"We didn’t go to war in 1939 to save Germany from Hitler...or the continent from fascism. Like in 1914, we went to war for the not lesser noble cause that we couldn’t accept a German hegemony over Europe."
- Sunday Correspondent, London (17.9.1989)

"The enemy is the German Reich and not Nazism, and those who still haven’t understood this, haven’t understood anything." – Churchill’s chief counselor Robert Lord Vansittart (as said to foreign minister Lord Halifax, September 1940)

"Lies come along first, and drag along the gullible. ​

Truth limps in long afterwards, hanging on the arms of time.”​

- Balthazar Gracian

Bull****.

You guys really need to learn a little bit about the discipline of history.

Churchill was prominent in the government of Great Britain for 50 years, and carefully observed throughout his life because of who he was (Randolph Churchill's son). To cherry-pick quotations out of the tens of thousands of recorded statements he allegedly made, and then to paint him completely with that pencil-thin brush is simply "not on". It leaves one with the wrong image of a complicated man, and warps his well-deserved place in the history of the British Isles......

It is like fleas attempting to take down a giant.

Now, one at a time:

World War 1
"Should Germany merchandise (do business) again in the next 50 years we have led this war (WW1) in vain."
- Winston Churchill in The Times (1919)

Yep. That was the plan.....read a little history. Germany was a danger to Europe then, as it is today. The Allies intended to prevent German domination of Europe both militarily and economically........so what??

World War 2
"We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not." - Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast)

"Germany becomes too powerful. We have to crush it." - Winston Churchill (November 1936 speaking to US - General Robert E. Wood)

To include this is particularly obnoxious....this is Churchill at his very best. He is prescient in this case..........he saw the danger of fascism, and the threat that Hitler was....and set out to destroy him, while the idiots of Europe claimed "peace in our time" and disarmed.

"This war is an English war and its goal is the destruction of Germany."
- Winston Churchill (- Autumn 1939 broadcast)

Yessss....you have a problem with the truth????? What the hell did you expect after war was declared????....it is only lately we've started with the stupidity of maybe, perhaps, sweeter, gentler treatment of our enemies. In 1939, Britain was fighting for survival against a great evil......

"The war wasn’t only about abolishing fascism, but to conquer sales markets. We could have, if we had intended so, prevented this war from breaking out without doing one shot, but we didn’t want to."
- Winston Churchill to Truman (Fultun, USA March 1946)

OF COURSE NOT! To do so would have left Hitler in charge of Europe..............THINK fer God's sake.

"We made a monster, a devil out of Hitler. Therefore we couldn’t disavow it after the war. After all, we mobilized the masses against the devil himself. So we were forced to play our part in this diabolic scenario after the war. In no way we could have pointed out to our people that the war only was an economic preventive measure."
- US foreign minister James Baker (1992)

What does this idiot have to do with Churchill????

"Germany’s unforgivable crime before WW2 was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up an independent exchange system from which the world-finance couldn’t profit anymore. ...We butchered the wrong pig."
-Winston Churchill (The Second World War - Bern, 1960)

HUH???? Badly needs context, impossible to judge without it.........who was the right pig???? Stalin perhaps??? Who knows.

"Not the political doctrine of Hitler has hurled us into this war. The reason was the success of his increase in building a new economy. The roots of war were envy, greed and fear."
- Major General J.F.C. Fuller, historian, England

Please see above.....if you are going to smear a great man, you could at least use his own quotes.....not those from some after-the-fact apologist, and out of context as well.

"We didn’t go to war in 1939 to save Germany from Hitler...or the continent from fascism. Like in 1914, we went to war for the not lesser noble cause that we couldn’t accept a German hegemony over Europe."
- Sunday Correspondent, London (17.9.1989)

"The enemy is the German Reich and not Nazism, and those who still haven’t understood this, haven’t understood anything." – Churchill’s chief counselor Robert Lord Vansittart (as said to foreign minister Lord Halifax, September 1940)

(sigh) the bloody obvious...........the soldiers weren't asking the Germans for their membership cards in the Nazi Party before they shot them.......

And to answer your question, the 1939-45 War in Europe was to prevent the military domination of Europe by NAZI Germany........which is exactly what we were told.

The entire Op Ed is more than ludicrous, it is odious.

It was Britain and France who declared war on Germany

Uh huh....about two years later than they should have.

You have heard of Poland haven't you? And the mutual defense treaty? AFTER Hitler had gobbled up part.....then all of Czechoslovakia and Austria????

 

[petros]

AFTER Hitler had gobbled up part.....then all of Czechoslovakia and Austria????

Did they not give a **** about the Austrians or Czechs? Just Pollocks? Why Pollocks? Did somebody in Royals have financial interest in Poland?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Like the man said, read some history, paying particular attention to the treaty obligations that were in place at the time.

 

[petros]

The "Empire" is well know for sticking to the letter of treaties?

 

[DaSleeper]

The "Empire" is well know for sticking to the letter of treaties?

E tu Breezy???:lol:

 

[lone wolf]

Two words: land claims....

 

[Cliffy]

Colpy, I hope you didn't blow a blood vessel. History is His Story. I do not hold the reverence for it that you do. To me it nothing but bragging rights after the fact - a bunch of primal chest beating. I'm glad I cut out the part about him having a Jewish American mother. I didn't want you to have an aneurism.

 

[bluebyrd35]

Hmmm.....I wonder what history will record about the Iraq war?? I suppose freeing up the oppressed will look better than going after the lost access to the oil fields. How will "Weapons of Mass Destruction" play out in history books in 50 years??

There were so many different forces at play then as there are now and no history is ever totally inclusive or accurate.

Imagine what would have occurred if for example,the original heir to the English throne had not abdicated?? He was a fervent supporter of Hitler. Or, if the commonwealth/ English colonies had not supported England when it did declare war??

Actually war was declared against Hitler when he invaded Poland on Sept.1st, but not against Russia when it also invaded Poland 15 days later. The Russians rounded up 10,000 Polish miltary and slaughtered them. Poland was split in two between Russia and Germany.

Nothing is ever as it seems, especially history.

 

[WLDB]

Weird seeing someone trying to demonize Churchill thereby defending Hitler.

 

[Cliffy]

Weird seeing someone trying to demonize Churchill thereby defending Hitler.

There are two sides to every story. We only got one. Controversy stimulates debate. I don't know what happened since I wasn't there but I have a healthy skepticism about what I've been told is the truth.

 

[TenPenny]

There are two sides to every story. We only got one. Controversy stimulates debate. I don't know what happened since I wasn't there but I have a healthy skepticism about what I've been told is the truth.

I don't believe that you actually started this thread. Someone else did, and I wonder why you're supporting the conspiracy to pretend it was you.

 

[wulfie68]

I don't agree with a lot of what Colpy said, but he was generally on the right track.

In 1919, World War I was just over. There was a lot of resentment towards Germany from the Brits, as there always is between combatants after hostilities, and particularly when you look at the cost in lives and the horror of modern weaponry, that was really showcased for the first time. Britain up to that point was a colonial power, but the wars were always distant and never a danger to the Mother Country. World War I was just across the Channel and took a tremendous toll on the population.

In 1936, the expansionist policies of Nazism were already in place. They were in violation of the Treaty of Versailles in terms of the number of men in uniform and troops west of the Rhine. They were backing the Franco-Nationalists in Spain, (look up the Condor Legion). They were posturing about the need to unify Germany and Austria. They were making noise about the Sudatenland in Czechoslovakia. The way their economy recovered from the war reparations and the tanking of the world economy in 1929 and grew was, ironically enough, through the establishment of a military industrial complex, such as people like to accuse the US of having today.

Add to this, Churchill was in opposition in 1939 when war was declared (the "peacemaker" Neville Chamberlain saw all the appeasement overtures to the Nazis fail, even after he and the rest of Europe pressured the Czechs into ceding the Sudatenland and proclaimed grandly "there shall be peace in our time").

James Bakker, Major General Fuller and the Sunday Correspondent all express opinions that are not bourne out by the facts. Germany's economy was strong because of its war machine, and that is why it was dangerous. Lord Vansittart was either expressing a personal prejudice or clueless if he thought, even after the Nazis INVADED Poland, that the war was about economics.

I'll disagree with Colpy in that I don't think Germany in 1919 was dangerous except as the Treaty of Versailles created an environment that was a breeding ground for radicalism. There was rampant factional violence in the 20s and early 30s in Germany between communists, the brown shirts (Nazis) and what remained of the civil authorities. Many Germans welcomed Hitler initially, because he promised to "make Germany strong again" and looked to be able to bring an end to that violence. I also don't think Germany is dangerous today: they are powerful in an economic sense, but I also think the 60 years of Soviet occupation in East Germany and the state of alert in the West for all those years (not to mention the residual effects of being the country to create the Holocaust) have made Germans all too aware of the dangers of armed conflict as a means to power.

p.s. DaSleeper: for centuries Brits have referred to themselves as "The Empire", a reflection of the time that it WAS the dominant empire on the planet. Most do not now, but some ardent nationalist types do long for the "glory days"...

 

[WLDB]

There are two sides to every story. We only got one. Controversy stimulates debate. I don't know what happened since I wasn't there but I have a healthy skepticism about what I've been told is the truth.

The German side of the story is also well known. As has been said before the Treaty of Versailles can take some of the blame for creating the conditions which allowed for Hitler to come to power. Once Hitler had consolidated his power in Germany, it`s a pretty one sided story as Hitler was determined to have a war eventually.

It`s rather unfortunate that the British (and the rest of Europe for that matter) ignored Churchill`s warnings and the fairly obvious signs Hitler was giving.

 

[petros]

E tu Breezy???:lol:

Better than being sleazy.

Weird seeing someone trying to demonize Churchill thereby defending Hitler.

Who is defending Hitler? I'm only pointing out the aspects few regard as historic, like every war is financial. None have been for "just causes".

 

[WLDB]

Who is defending Hitler? I'm only pointing out the aspects few regard as historic, like every war is financial. None have been for "just causes".

I didn`t say you were. I was commenting on the OP.

Also, it would depend how you define a `just cause`.

 

[petros]

As just. How would you describe a just cause?

Which is Nick and which is George?

What are the odds they have relations in Poland?

 

[talloola]

It was Britain and France who declared war on Germany

imagine that, innocent little germany, with a sweet leader who wouldn't hurt a flea,
it is usually a good idea to prepare to stay alive before the invader kills you, good
on britain for doing that, france waited a bit too long I would say, seeing hitler was
allready deciding to make it 'home', for himself and his henchmen.

 

[petros]

Hitler never wanted to go to war with Britain. He saw them as equals.