Does Canada still need a Liberal party?

[Locutus]

The NDP leadership race is starting to resemble the overcrowded scene at Holly Golightly's party in Breakfast at Tiffany's. For those who feared a coronation of Brian Topp, fear no more: With eight contenders, the contest promises to be lively and, potentially, unpredictable.

Meanwhile, across the aisle, the Liberal party leadership race looks more like a scene from a zombie movie: deserted streets with a few cadavers staggering about. Two leading contenders have already counted themselves out (Bob Rae, by accepting to be interim leader; and Justin Trudeau, to spend time with his family, as the saying goes).

In fairness, the Liberals won't be choosing their new leader until a-yet-to-be-determined date in 2013. And since the media is focused on the NDP race, with a convention set for March 24, 2012, it makes little sense to compete for attention (especially if you risk being upstaged, a concept the Liberals still have to wrap their head around).

Indeed, the party's mindset bears an eerie similarity to the Progressive Conservatives' view in 1993. Despite having been reduced to two seats, they imagined that they still were a big player in the national conversation. Going from nation-builders to thirdparty status (or fifth, in the Tories' case) comes as a blow. Two decades ago, it produced an out-migration of political talent from Ottawa to the provinces, as operatives fled to pastures that were greener in more ways than one.




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Does Canada still need a Liberal party?

 

[Cannuck]

Yes, Canada needs the Liberal Party. They just don't need the group that are presently operating the party. The Libs have moved too far to the left. Were they actually middle of the road, they would govern Canada for the next 100 years.

Mind you, if the Conservatives dropped their "social conservative" agenda then they would be interchangeable with the Liberals which would make the Libs redundant (if the Libs were actually middle of the road).

 

[JLM]

The NDP leadership race is starting to resemble the overcrowded scene at Holly Golightly's party in Breakfast at Tiffany's. For those who feared a coronation of Brian Topp, fear no more: With eight contenders, the contest promises to be lively and, potentially, unpredictable.

Meanwhile, across the aisle, the Liberal party leadership race looks more like a scene from a zombie movie: deserted streets with a few cadavers staggering about. Two leading contenders have already counted themselves out (Bob Rae, by accepting to be interim leader; and Justin Trudeau, to spend time with his family, as the saying goes).

The Conservatives appear to be managing fairly well, so until they screw up, the answer is NO. :smile:

 

[Cannuck]

The Conservatives appear to be managing fairly well, so until they screw up, the answer is NO. :smile:

So, without a Liberal Party, when the Cons do start to screw up, you obviously believe the Dippers are the best alternative. LOL...and you think that I'm a union guy.

 

[JLM]

So, without a Liberal Party, when the Cons do start to screw up, you obviously believe the Dippers are the best alternative. LOL...and you think that I'm a union guy.

I didn't say that! :smile:

 

[Cannuck]

I didn't say that! :smile:

I'm well aware that you didn't "say" it. It is the logical conclusion that one is to draw from your statement.

 

[JLM]

I'm well aware that you didn't "say" it. It is the logical conclusion that one is to draw from your statement.

You might want to check your dictionary for the definition of the word "until". :smile:

 

[mentalfloss]

Someone told me the Liberals are gonna make a comeback and shut the NDP out.

Any time now...

 

[wulfie68]

Yes, Canada needs the Liberal Party. They just don't need the group that are presently operating the party. The Libs have moved too far to the left. Were they actually middle of the road, they would govern Canada for the next 100 years.

Mind you, if the Conservatives dropped their "social conservative" agenda then they would be interchangeable with the Liberals which would make the Libs redundant (if the Libs were actually middle of the road).

You're almost right on the mark.

The Liberals have moved steadily left, leaving them fighting for the NDPs turf, rather than their more traditional center-left. You were also correct in stating if they stayed more to the center, they would probably maintain their status as "Canada's natural governing party" as they like to claim. To this end, though, especially given the last couple Liberal PMs, I wonder what Canada would look like, as they have been possibly the most divisive leaders in the country's history, and seperatist sentiment ran steadily higher, both in Quebec and the West.

As for the Conservatives and their "social agenda", I think this is a myth: they are a centrist part, even by Canadian standards. They don't completely disavow the social conservatives, thus keeping them in the fold, but they really don't throw them many bones either. We aren't going to see abortion, gay marriage or the death penalty revisited, regardless of leftist scare-mongering, because even Harper knows these are all but, if not dead issues to most of the country.

In some ways I would like to see a merge of the NDP and Liberals, and thus a lot of bickering and whining about the strength of government mandates might disappear, as the vote tallies would have to be greater than 50% almost by default. At the same time, I see a downside in that there is also the strong possibility of a gridlock between the 2 parties emerging, such as we see in the US. It would be more difficult for it to happen, as there is only one elected battleground here (the House of Commons), as opposed to 3 in the US (the House of Representatives, the Senate and the Presidency) but the polarization already exists. I also would not be comfortable with a 2 party system in which our choices are left and center: its almost at the point already, and I don't think the country sliding farther from the center is healthy (and closer to totalitarianism), which it would inevitably do each time the Left-wing party was elected. I also know some our more ardent left-wing posters are going to take umbrage with my analysis, but everytime I see another news report or article on Greece, I become more convinced about my stance.

 

[Cannuck]

You might want to check your dictionary for the definition of the word "until". :smile:

I got that part. Unlike you though, I realize you can't just start up political parties on a whim and form the government at the next general election. You also always need a credible alternative to the governing party which helps to keep them on their toes. Since the Dippers are not a credible alternative, we need the Liberals to be that alternative.

 

[taxslave]

The more parties the better. Especially on the left. This will split the vote enough that we will never get another tax and spend socialist government.
I'm betting the Conservatives will even legalize pot possession as soon as someone makes a good financial case for it.

 

[petros]

I'm betting the Conservatives will even legalize pot possession as soon as someone makes a good financial case for it.

Already in the planning stages.

 

[mentalfloss]

The more parties the better. Especially on the left. This will split the vote enough that we will never get another tax and spend socialist government.
I'm betting the Conservatives will even legalize pot possession as soon as someone makes a good financial case for it.

If they do that, I will officially predict re-election in 4 years.

 

[Nuggler]

The libs REALLY lost it with Iggy. First time I looked at him and heard him speak, I thought he'd never get out of the starting gate, and he didn't.

Too bad they can't move a bit towards centre, get a good leader instead of the recycled pile they have now, and form a strong opposition - because we need one!! Not just because of Harpo and his religious right base, but just because we need one - Kanader, eh.

But whatever happens ain't gonna for another 3+ years, and not then, if they don't pull their collective heads out.

The dippers are a dancing cluster fukk at the moment. Losing respect

Actually, just to keep sane, I'm not following politics for the next few years. More to life, right?

 

[petros]

Divide and conquer...it works.

 

[wulfie68]

I'm betting the Conservatives will even legalize pot possession as soon as someone makes a good financial case for it.

Canada won't move to legalize pot unless Obama wins re-election. The Conservatives don't take the direction from the White House, as many love to insinuate, but they don't believe in pissing on the White House lawn, like Chretien and his ilk loved to try for... Socially conservative Republicans would have a fit if they had to worry about legal pot being grown up here and coming south, like whiskey during prohibition.

 

[petros]

They are going to legalize with licensed growers and shops. It's in the works.

 

[Machjo]

Canada doesn't need any political party, though they should still be free to exist, just not at taxpayers' expense and without any official government recognition. They ought to be purely private organizations.

 

[JLM]

Canada doesn't need any political party, though they should still be free to exist, just not at taxpayers' expense and without any official government recognition. They ought to be purely private organizations.

Now you are talking! :smile:

 

[Machjo]

Now you are talking! :smile:

Hey, that's how it works at the territorial level in Nunavut. Now of course I don't see why anyone would even want to bother creating a political party with no official recognition, but either way that would be entirely their business.