Baptism

[In Between Man]

If it is all that simple, what is the incentive to be good. You are saved, after all, so you don't have to treat your neighbour with dignity and respect, you don't have to obey the ten commandments, you can have sex with your children, your neighbour's wife and/or husband, you can rob your customers and beat your wife. Sorry, but I have met a lot of born againers who do all that because they are saved and don't have to worry about consequences (at least in their minds). Many were pillars of their church and communities.

You need an incentive to be good? Does a child need incentive to be good for his Father? You do it because you love him Cliffy, because you're thankful for life, liberty, health and everything else he blessed you with. You want to please him by being obedient and not sinning. And since you're in a trusting relationship where you approach him as a child approaches a father, and you know that he only wants to help fulfill good things in your life, how much more incentive do you need?

The born-againers that you claim rationalize sin in their minds(I don't know how you're suppose to know that unless they specially stated this) are either a) never saved in the first place or b) are prodigal, and are being very foolish and are obviously ignoring commandments like loving your neighbor. They're not "exempt" from sinning no matter what they think.

Christians aren't "exempt" from sinning and we still have to repent and ask for forgiveness. You said "we don't have to treat our neighbor with respect" - but we do. Sin is just as wrong after a person became a Christian as before they became a Christian.

You're making it sound like Christians are "exempt"(or at least some think they are) and they're not.

 

[lone wolf]

That race of men must have went extinct. Hard to imagine, with all the children they could have produced.

Nah ... they're still out here. Ever meet someone with twenty years doing this and thirty years doing that and another forty being something else and a whole lot of other hats in between. Just do the arithmetic and they're pretty well preserved for all the years that expertise adds up to....

 

[DaSleeper]

Nah ... they're still out here. Ever meet someone with twenty years doing this and thirty years doing that and another forty being something else and a whole lot of other hats in between. Just do the arithmetic and they're pretty well preserved for all the years that expertise adds up to....

Once had a superintendent like that, that had done just about everything....

Someone asked him...Watsamatter....Can't hold a job?

 

[JLM]

Nah ... they're still out here. Ever meet someone with twenty years doing this and thirty years doing that and another forty being something else and a whole lot of other hats in between. Just do the arithmetic and they're pretty well preserved for all the years that expertise adds up to....

Yeah, I met quite a few guys who were 125 years old but only appeared to be in their 30s. :lol:

 

[karrie]

Really, oversimplification, I'll need to remember that. Those of us that look at baptism from a religious view point only are simplistic.

Those of you who understand baptism from a religious point already understand what I was saying about community, even if you don't care to explain it. Those who would dismiss it merely because it's 'religious' are the ones who are oversimplifying the gravity of its place in the human psyche.

remembering back to my 'catholic' days, cleansing of the original sin, is the only reason for baptism,
but I have no idea what the present day catholics do, maybe its just the same as I remember, or?

and yes, I guess the godparents were also expected to take responsibility of the child if parents
dissapeared for some reason, but I have never seen that come to be, because relatives seem to be
the obvious choices for that problem.

Karrie, this new style of baptism seems interesting, and non religious, so then what exactly is the
purpose of doing it.

Okay, let me be clear...I was speaking of baptism from an anthropological standpoint, not a Catholic one. I'm more than just a Catholic, and can speak from assorted viewpoints along my life experience.

Currently in the Catholic church, babies are viewed as free from sin, there is no need claimed to baptize them for the sake of their soul. In order to baptize my kids, I had to prove and then promise that I was actually going to bring them up in the church. It is VERY much a religious ceremony to have your child baptized in the Catholic church, but it is also a ceremony of community.

 

[talloola]

Those of you who understand baptism from a religious point already understand what I was saying about community, even if you don't care to explain it. Those who would dismiss it merely because it's 'religious' are the ones who are oversimplifying the gravity of its place in the human psyche.



Okay, let me be clear...I was speaking of baptism from an anthropological standpoint, not a Catholic one. I'm more than just a Catholic, and can speak from assorted viewpoints along my life experience.

Currently in the Catholic church, babies are viewed as free from sin, there is no need claimed to baptize them for the sake of their soul. In order to baptize my kids, I had to prove and then promise that I was actually going to bring them up in the church. It is VERY much a religious ceremony to have your child baptized in the Catholic church, but it is also a ceremony of community.

I didn't know there was any other form of baptism, but religious, have never known anyone who did that,
but it seems very thoughtful and celebratory, but baptism is baptism, a religious ceremony, so I can't
devide it up into anything else in my mind, and because I am not at all religious makes it even more
difficult to comprehend anything else except, maybe a ceremony with a different name.

 

[TenPenny]

In order to baptize my kids, I had to prove and then promise that I was actually going to bring them up in the church. It is VERY much a religious ceremony to have your child baptized in the Catholic church, but it is also a ceremony of community.

When I happened to mention to one of the women at work that I was never baptised, she said, 'so, you have no name?'

People are weird.

Baptism is, as you have said, induction into a club. Which is fine for those who want to be part of the club. For others, it's meaningless. I used to belong to a Rotary Club. It was fun, too.

 

[karrie]

When I happened to mention to one of the women at work that I was never baptised, she said, 'so, you have no name?'

People are weird.

Baptism is, as you have said, induction into a club. Which is fine for those who want to be part of the club. For others, it's meaningless. I used to belong to a Rotary Club. It was fun, too.

I haven't ever used the term club actually. Community goes past 'club'. I'd never look at my atheist friends who threw their child a 'naming' to welcome them into their community, and dismiss it as entrance into a 'club'

 

[TenPenny]

I haven't ever used the term club actually. Community goes past 'club'. I'd never look at my atheist friends who threw their child a 'naming' to welcome them into their community, and dismiss it as entrance into a 'club'

I know you haven't used the term 'club', I have.

If you feel the need to have a ceremony to name a child and make it part of the community, I consider that a club.

My daughters had their naming ceremonies at the Canadian Embassy in Beijing, and we became part of a club at that time. It certainly wasn't by choice, it was a legal requirement.

You can call it whatever you wish to, community, family, religious order, sect, whatever. Makes no difference.

 

[JLM]

I didn't know there was any other form of baptism, but religious, have never known anyone who did that,
but it seems very thoughtful and celebratory, but baptism is baptism, a religious ceremony, so I can't
devide it up into anything else in my mind, and because I am not at all religious makes it even more
difficult to comprehend anything else except, maybe a ceremony with a different name.

Me neither, I was talking about the one performed in a church where water gets dumped on the kid's forehead!

When I happened to mention to one of the women at work that I was never baptised, she said, 'so, you have no name?'

People are weird.

Baptism is, as you have said, induction into a club. Which is fine for those who want to be part of the club. For others, it's meaningless. I used to belong to a Rotary Club. It was fun, too.

Is that any more ignorant than what they used to call a kid who parents didn't have the prerequisite papers? :lol: