Nycole Turmel’s flirtation with sovereignty was not a secret.

[Colpy]

Turmel vs. Lebel: their sovereigntist ties

For head-to-head comparison purposes, here's what we know about the past sovereigntist ties of interim NDP leader Nycole Turmel, and how they stack up against those of Transport Minister Denis Lebel:

How long were they members of a sovereigntist party?

Turmel held a Bloc membership for just over four years, from December 2006 until January 2011. She became an NDP candidate shortly afterwards. It's unclear exactly when Turmel became a member of Quebec Solidaire, but it only formed as a provincial political party in November 2006. Turmel did not give up her membership in the provincial party until it became controversial last week.

Lebel was a member of the Bloc for eight years, from July 1993 until April 2001. In the summer of 1993, the Bloc was fighting its first-ever federal election campaign, under then-leader Lucien Bouchard. (The party became the official Opposition that fall.) Lebel was still a Bloc member when he was elected mayor of Roberval in 2000.

Why were they members of a sovereigntist party?

Turmel says she took out a Bloc membership to 'support a friend': then-BQ MP Carole Lavallée. She says she agrees with some of the Bloc's policies, but not its position on national unity. When Turmel served as the head of the Public Service Alliance of Canada, the national federal civil servants' union endorsed Bloc Québécois candidates. Of Quebec Solidaire, Turmel told Rosemary Barton on Power & Politics that her support for the provincial party was based on the fact that "they work on issues for Quebec families." She says Quebec Solidaire spokesperson (the party does not have a leader in the traditional sense) Françoise David is also a friend of hers.

Lebel explains his Bloc membership as part of his political and community involvement more generally in the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-John region of Quebec, a nationalist stronghold. He told Radio-Canada that he wanted to get closer to then-MP Michel Gauthier, who became the leader of the Bloc after Lucien Bouchard left to become premier of Quebec in 1996.


How active and committed were they to the sovereigntist cause?

Turmel says that despite her memberships and the small donations (totalling $235) she made in support of her friend Lavallée, she was never active in the sovereignty movement per se. Her past work as a national union leader did find her on common ground with the Bloc on other social and justice issues. She maintains that she is and always has been a federalist. Turmel has disclosed that she voted against separation in both of Quebec's sovereignty referendums.

Lebel says that despite his membership and small donations (a few hundred dollars), he never actively campaigned for the Bloc, although he did attend Bloc events and participate in partisan activities. A party organizer for the Bloc during that time period supports his claim not to have been a party activist or strong campaigner. Lebel told reporters in 2007 that he is a Quebec nationalist. Lebel has not disclosed how he voted in Quebec's sovereignty referendums.

Turmel vs. Lebel: their sovereigntist ties - Inside Politics


Pop Quiz for Colpy:

Which possible sovereigntist would you be more suspicious of?

One that reveals she voted against separation? Or the one that does not disclose how he voted in referendums at all?

I'll let Lorne Gunter answer for me.....he does it so well.

Lorne Gunter: A Tory used to support sovereignty. Many NDP still do. | Full Comment | National Post

 

[mentalfloss]

I'll let Lorne Gunter answer for me.....he does it so well.

Lorne Gunter: A Tory used to support sovereignty. Many NDP still do. | Full Comment | National Post

Sorry pal, as an alternative for Canadians, she condemned herself.......say good-bye to the NDP as a national party.

NDP support holds firm despite leadership woes

OTTAWA — Interim NDP Leader Nycole Turmel is facing a struggle to win over Canadians but so far her past ties to the Bloc Québécois haven’t harmed overall support for the federal New Democrats, a new poll shows.

Support for the NDP is at 31 per cent, up slightly since the May election, despite the revelation that until recently Turmel was a card-carrying member of the Bloc Québécois.

“It’s not really resonating with a lot of voters ... in that sense, the brand has not been tampered with,” said Mario Canseco, vice-president of Angus Reid Public Opinion.

While the news caused waves and put the NDP on the defensive, the Angus Reid/Toronto Star poll shows that voters are roughly split on the issue. Half say they weren’t worried about Turmel’s past links with the separatist party while 41 per cent expressed concern. Nationwide, 45 per cent said the NDP should “definitely” or “probably” replace her as interim leader.

But importantly for the NDP, those most bothered by Turmel’s past BQ membership were from other parties — opposition runs highest among Conservative backers, where 60 per cent say they are concerned.

Among NDP backers, 67 per cent say they’re not too concerned or not concerned at all by her previous political affiliations. And within Quebec, her past ties to the separatist BQ are barely causing a ripple with unworried respondents outnumbering those who say they are troubled by a two-to-one margin.
That explains why the party’s support has held up through the controversy, especially in Quebec where the NDP is the first choice among voters at 35 per cent.

But winning over voters will be a challenge for Turmel. A majority of those polled — 50 per cent — say they’re “not sure” of her performance as interim leader, perhaps reflecting the fact she’s only been in the job for a few weeks.

The poll reveals that party preferences have changed little since election day. The Conservatives are at 39 per cent, the NDP at 31 per cent, the Liberals at 19 per cent, Bloc at 6 per cent and Green Party at 4 per cent.

The poll holds good news for the Conservatives and Prime Minister Stephen Harper, with 40 per cent of Canadians saying they approve of the newly elected majority government’s performance.

The online poll of 1,005 Canadians was done on Monday and Tuesday. The margin of error is 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...dp-support-holds-firm-despite-leadership-woes

 

[Colpy]

In your Field of Dreams....

I don't care if any of our politicians were separatists in the past, especially ten years in the past.

Good Lord, 40 years ago, I would have described myself as a Marxist.

Thirty-five years ago I was a NDP voter.

I didn't change overnight......it took decades to become totally disillusioned with the left, to recognize that the left is a much greater threat to liberty than the right, simply because the left is founded on the seriously flawed ideal of "collective rights", while the philosophy of the right is based on the individual....the only real freedom......

Most of up develop politically, we grow wiser with experience, and that takes time, we don't change instantly.........the Road to Damascus conversion has entered the imagination as an exceptional phenomenon because such rapid conversion without consideration requires reflection and time, or the interference of God.

I don't care if a politician was a Marxist and a separatists ten years ago.

I DO care if they are still walking around with Party membership papers in their pocket.

Is that clear now????

Your stated philosophy that "recent" doesn't count is so absolutely ridiculous that it defies the imagination.

 

[mentalfloss]

Your stated philosophy that "recent" doesn't count is so absolutely ridiculous that it defies the imagination.

According to supporters, it made no difference whatsoever (see poll above). It's probably because they realized that her current performance is more important than her past.

Something they realized should hold true for Lebel as well - too his credit. What is not to his credit is that he was less transparent on referendums than Turmel was.

I guess if it doesn't matter how long ago he was a separatist, then he should have not worries about being fully transparent on his vote, right?

Right?

I didn't change overnight......it took decades to become totally disillusioned with the left, to recognize that the left is a much greater threat to liberty than the right, simply because the left is founded on the seriously flawed ideal of "collective rights", while the philosophy of the right is based on the individual....the only real freedom......

Your unfortunate (and desperate) attempt to pull this into a battle of ideology has nothing to with logical consistency.

Every party makes mistakes. But it's clear that you will stubbornly defend the conservatives in the most fragile of glass houses. It's that kind of attitude that could actually hurt conservatives if the public becomes a bit more educated on these issues.


I know, I know.. it's soo partisan of me to give pro bono tips to conservatives, eh?

Must be my separatist ideology coming out.

 

[Colpy]

According to supporters, it made no difference whatsoever (see poll above). It's probably because they realized that her current performance is more important than her past.

Something they realized should hold true for Lebel as well - too his credit.



Your unfortunate (and desperate) attempt to pull this into a battle of ideology has nothing to with logical consistency.

Every party makes mistakes. But it's clear that you will stubbornly defend the conservatives in the most fragile of glass houses. It's that kind of attitude that could actually hurt conservatives if the public becomes a bit more educated on these issues.


I know, I know.. it's soo partisan of me to give pro bono tips to conservatives, eh?

Must be my separatist ideology coming out.

Ahhh....wake up and smell the coffee....

You seem to be having comprehension problems........the issue is NOT that Turmel WAS a commie separatist.

The issue is that she IS a commie separatist, as clearly indicated by her continued membership in the QS even as she became leader of the NDP.

Is that clear enough for you??????????

Geezus!!!!!!

Oh, and my political history was not offered in an attempt to make this a left-right thing......Turmel is the subject, and that makes it a left-kooky left thing, no right involved. My experience was offered as a simple illustration of normal political development over time.........one way or the other.

 

[mentalfloss]

The issue is that she IS a commie separatist, as clearly indicated by her continued membership in the QS even as she became leader of the NDP.

Is that clear enough for you??????????

She dropped her membership - probably because, like most rational people, she didn't think it would give her this much of a $hitstorm. So you can now officially change your IS to WAS.

But hey, some people will continue to believe she's a separatist even though it's been pointed out (about 5 times in this thread now?) that she's already making policy decisions which fly in the face of Quebec policy.

"I represent Canada. I am a federalist," said Turmel, sticking to a series of answers about what she called "a mistake."

Earlier in the day, Turmel said she backs the NDP position on federal support for the Lower Churchill hydroelectric megaproject, despite opposition from the Quebec government and many Quebec politicians.

"I support the request of Newfoundland on this issue. This is clear to me," said Turmel, referring to the Newfoundland and Labrador government's application for a federal loan guarantee to develop power at Muskrat Falls, on Labrador's Churchill River.

Turmel said she will put pressure on Prime Minister Stephen Harper to follow through with an election pledge to support the project. "At this point nothing is signed, so we need to make sure this [happens]," she said.

Turmel's Bloc ties questioned at Regatta - Politics - CBC News
​

If that's what defines "commie separatist" for you, then I can't really help your delusions.

 

[petros]

\
I didn't change overnight......it took decades to become totally disillusioned with the left, to recognize that the left is a much greater threat to liberty than the right, simply because the left is founded on the seriously flawed ideal of "collective rights", while the philosophy of the right is based on the individual....the only real freedom.....

Did you skip the comments on being Progressives?

#1 with a bullet on the Conserevative "Founding Principles" web page....
A balance between fiscal accountability, progressive social policy and individual rights and responsibilities;

What about #2? on the Conservative top 20 Well it goes on to mention building an national "coalition" (another word for collective).....

Boy have you been had by the western commies or what?

 

[Colpy]

She dropped her membership - probably because, like most rational people, she didn't think it give her this much of a $hitstorm.

But some people will continue to believe she's a separatist even though it's been pointed out that she's out of the party, and has already made policy decisions (for maritimers) which fly in the face of Quebec policy.

If that's what defines "commie separatist" for you, then I can't really help your delusions.

Ah...yep.

Your position requires a level of self-deception that is beyond the scope of rational debate.........

She was a member of the commie separatist QS last TUESDAY!!!! She kept that membership until it was exposed, despite the supposed conflict between that political philosophy and the political philosophy of the party she agreed to lead. That is more than a little deceptive, so I think her support for federal money in Labrador HARDLY discredits her separatist roots......especially as hard core Quebec separatists consider Labrador part of Quebec....

Didn't know that, did you?????

 

[petros]

Damn the Progressive commies and their coalitions (collectives).....

I doubt you've read this....

http://www.conservative.ca/party/founding_principles/

 

[mentalfloss]

Damn the Progressive commies and their coalitions (collectives).....

I doubt you've read this....

http://www.conservative.ca/party/founding_principles/

I don't think the conservatives exemplify even half of what's on that list. Otherwise I might have voted for them in the last election.

She was a member of the commie separatist QS last TUESDAY!!!! She kept that membership until it was exposed, despite the supposed conflict between that political philosophy and the political philosophy of the party she agreed to lead. That is more than a little deceptive, so I think her support for federal money in Labrador HARDLY discredits her separatist roots......especially as hard core Quebec separatists consider Labrador part of Quebec....

Dude, she revealed her votes, both of them against sovereignty in a Quebec referendum.

That is the ultimate separatist test right there!


And the conservative, Lebel, did not reveal his vote at all!!!


And you're putting more faith in the guy who is less transparent to voters about his past separation antics for the sake of a policy change last week??

That is the quintessential example of recency effect.

You're really stretching this one thin now.

 

[petros]

As a closet Conservative Commie why would he fess up?

#10 on the Commie top 20....

A belief that English and French have equality of status, and equal rights and privileges as to their use in all institutions of the Parliament and Government of Canada;

OMG they even approve of Welfare!!

A belief that it is the responsibility of individuals to provide for themselves, their families and their dependents, while recognizing that government must respond to those who require assistance and compassion;

 

[mentalfloss]

As a closet Conservative Commie why would he fess up?

What's worse is that it would have worked to his benefit and the party's to be more transparent. But now they just threw more fuel to the fire about glasshouses and all that.

Oh wait, I'm sorry, I should get back to being partisan - no more tips for conservatives.

#10 on the Commie top 20....

A belief that English and French have equality of status, and equal rights and privileges as to their use in all institutions of the Parliament and Government of Canada;

Yes, well, that's just par for the course now isn't it.

 

[petros]

Bloody Western Commies...what did the easterners think they were getting from the west when they voted? Ah well. Having the bulk of the Canadian economy in our hands we may as well take the reins and spread the wealth around a little like the Commies we are hey Colpy? Aren't you being socially stimulated in the NB woods? Are you using Blue Lube?

This one makes me howl until my stitches rip.

A belief that good and responsible government is attentive to the people it represents and has representatives who at all times conduct themselves in an ethical manner and display integrity, honesty and concern for the best interest of all;

Is Turmel meeting this requirement?

 

[Colpy]

She dropped her membership - probably because, like most rational people, she didn't think it would give her this much of a $hitstorm. So you can now officially change your IS to WAS.

But hey, some people will continue to believe she's a separatist even though it's been pointed out (about 5 times in this thread now?) that she's already making policy decisions which fly in the face of Quebec policy.

"I represent Canada. I am a federalist," said Turmel, sticking to a series of answers about what she called "a mistake."

Earlier in the day, Turmel said she backs the NDP position on federal support for the Lower Churchill hydroelectric megaproject, despite opposition from the Quebec government and many Quebec politicians.

"I support the request of Newfoundland on this issue. This is clear to me," said Turmel, referring to the Newfoundland and Labrador government's application for a federal loan guarantee to develop power at Muskrat Falls, on Labrador's Churchill River.

Turmel said she will put pressure on Prime Minister Stephen Harper to follow through with an election pledge to support the project. "At this point nothing is signed, so we need to make sure this [happens]," she said.

Turmel's Bloc ties questioned at Regatta - Politics - CBC News
​

If that's what defines "commie separatist" for you, then I can't really help your delusions.

All that indicates is that she is a liar as well.

THAT was obvious from the first "I only joined the BQ to help my friend", before it was known she was STILL a member of
the much more leftist separatist QS, and before her politically convenient letter of resignation from the BQ was known......in which she stated her support for BQ policies.

The woman is a lying commie separatist.

It gets better and better.

 

[petros]

The woman is a lying commie separatist.

Wake the **** up already. They are ALL Commies in Canadian politics.

 

[mentalfloss]

All that indicates is that she is a liar as well.

THAT was obvious from the first "I only joined the BQ to help my friend", before it was known she was STILL a member of
the much more leftist separatist QS, and before her politically convenient letter of resignation from the BQ was known......in which she stated her support for BQ policies.

The woman is a lying commie separatist.

It gets better and better.

 

[Colpy]

Yep, the Liberals will be back.....big time.

I just love a split left wing.....

And I do like Dion on Quebec.......

Stephane Dion and the Liberals are exploiting the Nycole Turmel controversy, attempting to raise money from the NDP’s leadership recent debacle.
In a fundraising letter sent to supporters Wednesday, Mr. Dion, the former Liberal leader, argues the NDP are “playing a deeply irresponsible political game.”
And he notes his concerns over the “flakiness” of Ms. Turmel and the other NDP MPs from Quebec, who he says “are unwilling to say they support a united Canada.”

Liberals see dollar signs in NDP debacle - The Globe and Mail

 

[lone wolf]

Mountains from molehills makes great deflection....

 

[Colpy]

Mountains from molehills makes great deflection....

Sorry Buddy, but a lying Commie Separatist running Her Majesty's LOYAL opposition is hardly a molehill.....it is more like a foothill....in other words, she should get the boot.

Now, for an alternative....

OH!

ALL the NDP upper echelons are made up of fruitcakes......

Hmmm, maybe keep Turmel.

.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/08/11/dan-arnold-mccarthyism-and-nycole-turmel/

 

[lone wolf]

Ever notice the new members on this Forum who join to read what Google won't give them? They're not all spammers or long-term members. Keep building....