How recently was the circumference of the earth known? The moon? The sun? How about our polar tilt of 23.5 degrees? Are these things in the Quran or Bible?
the mirror image of the matter
- Thread starter eanassir
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The earth: Eratosthenes got that one pretty close by measuring the lengths of shadows cast by vertical sticks at the summer solstice in different locations, around 250 BCE. He set it at about 25,000 miles.
The moon: Aristarchus got that one pretty close by watching lunar eclipses, around 250 BCE, refined a century later by Hipparchus, they figured about 6800 miles.
The sun: That had to wait for the Copernican system to win favour, Kepler to establish the orbits were ellipses, not circles, and a good telescope to be invented so the general scale of the solar system could be calculated from planetary parallax measurements. First attempt was in 1671 by Jean Richer and Giovanni Cassini, and they got it pretty close, estimating the earth-sun distance to be 87 million miles, and once that was known the size of everything else could be calculated. A lot of other people refined the measurements, and by about 1700 they had it right.
Axial tilt: Kepler gets that one too, early 17th century.
No, none of this information is in any culture's scriptures.
I never cease to be amazed at how often something I happen to be reading at the time contains the answers to questions that show up here at CC. I don't keep all those details in my memory, but I knew I'd read about them in the past 72 hours, so I went back to that book...
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So you believe in god and her ficticious religion. Death happens to organisms, death does not happen to the organisms animating power, which as we all know is rerouted to attempt the evolutionary assent once again. It would be a grave disservice to mankind should you're etheric essence be lost simply because of the meat upgrade death. I happen to know that you will return as a cat.
The Bible and the Quran have nothing to do with such figures and equations; because they are not revealed to teach people physics; God tells people: Go and study and journey throughout the earth to see the consequences of disbelievers and idolaters.
The Quran, the last revealed book of God, includes a large number of its revelations (ayat) concerning the marvels of God's creation in the heavens and the earth --> that man may ponder and contemplate about the might of God and that there will be the inevitable afterlife.
The Quran includes a lrage number of the ayat with scientific implications: because it is God's word Who knows everything: more than the modern sciences of the present time and the future. Some of these ayat have been verified; and others - because of the defect of the present science - have not yet verified and will be seen in the future when science will achieve more advance and progress.
See this in the aya 7: 93 which I have just read its interpretation:
وَقُلِ الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ سَيُرِيكُمْ آيَاتِهِ فَتَعْرِفُونَهَا وَمَا رَبُّكَ بِغَافِلٍ عَمَّا تَعْمَلُونَ
The explanation:
(And say [Mohammed to them]: "Praise be to God; He will show you His signs and you will know them; [for] your Lord [O Mohammed] is not heedless of what they do.")
The interpretation:
This aya and the preceding two ayat (which I have not cited; because I know how much you hate the Quran) ; these 3 ayat addressed the people of Mecca at the time of Prophet Mohammed - salam be to him.
>> (And say [Mohammed to them]: "Praise be to God) Who guided me to the way of the truth, and chose me for the apostle-hood; while you, idolaters and associaters, denied the ambiguous ayat of the Quran and said: this is not the word of God and it is only the word of man; but
>> (He will show you His signs [of revelation]) which you denied and did not comprehend their implications -- and this will be at the time of the Mahdi
>> (and you will know them) and believe in them at that time, but then your belief will not avail you anything [because by that time you will be dead and you will be ethereal souls]
>> ([for] your Lord [O Mohammed] is not heedless of what they do.")
Na, Beave will be a dark Burmese and you will be a Cheshire. You will still be hissing at each other.
No reincarnation or transmigration of souls: this is only their delusion and wishful thinking. No proof, no indication and nothing was told by any prophet or revealed from God; it is only suggestion and self cheating.
There is no transmigration of souls
There is no transmigration of souls
If you bother to look up what is left of the books that were left out of the Bible, you will find plenty of reference to reincarnation as it was a common belief with most religions around and before the time of Jesus. There are some vague references still in the Bible but most people choose to ignore them as they don't fit in with the present day dogma. I have posted those references on several occasions before, so I can't be bothered to post them again.
And you follow such vague references! if truly there are such vague references.
Jews and Bahai believe in the reincarnation; which is not told to them by God in the tongue of His servants the prophets and apostles, but only they follow their delusions and follow such vague concepts without proof.
The Transmigration of Souls
The 'Bahai' Doctrine
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Just because god didn't say so doesn't mean it can't be true. We know lots of things that can't be found anywhere in any scriptures of any religion, and there are lots of claims in scriptures that we know to be not true. Every cosmology derived from scriptures, for instance, is wrong, and not just a little bit, but egregiously so.
The idea is that they try to justify their false concepts like this reincarnation or transmigration of soul -- by claiming it is mentioned in the revealed books; while this is not true.
In fact, God - be glorified - told us in the Quran that such reincarnation is false.
Any man will live his life in the World, then reaches his destined hour of death, when his soul will separate from his material body: the body will disintergrate and return to the dust, while the ethereal soul will go to the spirit world and will be responsible about its own deeds; no other return of the soul to the body unless for a purpose of manifesting a miracle: like the miracle of Jesus son of Mary and the miracle of Prophet Elia or Elijah: both of them revived by the leave of God: they revived some dead men (only recently died) to life again and that was by praying God to revive that dead person.
All the words said by God are true and authentic and correct, but the distorted books may include many erraneous claims.
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Dexter, you always contradict God Most Gracious, and you have become a manifest opponent of God, and this is not proper for you.
(Do not man [: the associater] see that We created him from scanty [seminal] fluid, and that he has become a manifest opponent?
And he has mentioned to Us a parable; he said: "Who is that can revive bones when they are rotten!?"
Say: "He revives them, That Who created them at the beginning; He is All-Knowing about everything.")
The above between brackets is the explanation of the Quran 36: 77-79
أَوَلَمْ يَرَ الْإِنسَانُ أَنَّاخَلَقْنَاهُ مِن نُّطْفَةٍ فَإِذَا هُوَ خَصِيمٌ مُّبِينٌ . وَضَرَبَ لَنَا مَثَلًا وَنَسِيَ خَلْقَهُ قَالَ مَنْ يُحْيِي الْعِظَامَ وَهِيَ رَمِيمٌ . قُلْ يُحْيِيهَا الَّذِي أَنشَأَهَا أَوَّلَ مَرَّةٍ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ خَلْقٍ عَلِيمٌ
I am not an opponent of god, I don't believe he exists, I'm an opponent of people who believe he does, who think they have information about what he wants us to do and not do, and feel they have the right and the duty to inflict that on others. I believe it is entirely proper, because I believe religious belief to be a delusion, and I have chosen to resist and challenge it at every reasonable opportunity.
[FONT="]Although, in our culture and religion little is said or taught about reincarnation, there are references to it in the Bible. In the Old Testament in Malachi 4:14 the return of Elijah is prophesied. In Matthew 11:11 - 15 and 17: 10 - 13 Jesus reveals to his disciples that Elijah has returned in the person of John the Baptist. In John 9:1 - 9 we read: [/FONT]
[FONT="]“As Jesus passed by he saw a man who was blind from birth, and his disciples asked him saying ‘Master, who did sin, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?’ and Jesus answered ‘neither hath this man sinned nor has his parents but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.’” [/FONT]
[FONT="]Reincarnation was a common belief two thousand years ago, which would explain why they asked if the man had sinned. How else could he be blind from birth unless he had sinned in a previous life? In John 3:13 Jesus said, “no man hath ascended to heaven but he came down from heaven”, clearly stating the existence of life before physical birth. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Many of the early Christian scholars wrote about reincarnation. About AD 553 the Emperor Justinian repressed reincarnation for purely political reasons. Today a few references remain, like Jeremiah 1:5, Proverbs 8:22 - 31, Wisdom 8:19 - 20 (in the catholic version only), Ephesians 1:4 and John 17:5.[/FONT]
This does not indicate the reincarnation. .
Elijah was a prophet of the Children of Israel, that was about a thousand years befor the Christ, then Elijah died and his soul went up to heaven like all the prophets and righteous believers.
But this prophecy indicates another person similar to Elijah or Elia that will appear later on, and whose name has one part Ali which in Arabic the same as Elia or Elijah in Hebrew; this is the Mahdi which will appear In The Last Days.
"It is mentioned in the Book of Malachias, chapter 4: 5-6
“5- Behold, I will send you Elia, the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
6-And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children and the heart of the children to their fathers: lest I come and strike the earth with ananthema.”
The meaning:
He will send a righteous and pious man, similar to Prophet Elia in his good conduct and kind heart, before Doomsday which is the great and dreadful day; while His saying: “And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children and the heart of the children to their fathers” means: He will make the hearts of each of the children and the fathers incline to the other.
His saying: “lest I come, and strike the earth with ananthema.” Means: You, who hear this prophecy! You should be kind to your fathers, and you should not hurt them, but if you hurt your fathers and do not be kind with them; then I will bring the chastisement on you just as had I done to the past wrong- doing nations (1) before you. This prophecy is related to the Awaited Mehdi (i.e. the Paraclete); because one part of his name is “Ali”. “Ali” is like “Elia”, and actually the meaning of “Elia” in Hebrew is “Ali” in Arabic. While Prophet Elia or Elijah died in Palestine [more than 2,000 years ago] and his soul went up to Paradise [in Heaven.]"
Also this does not indicate the reincarnation.
Jesus meant that John Baptist is pious like the piety of Elijah who was a righteous and kind-hearted.
([God revealed to John when he grew:] "O John, hold fast with the Scripture";
and We gave him judgment when a youth.
And compassion from Us, and purity, and he used to ward off [sins.]
And kind to his parents, and he was not arrogant, rebellious.
And safety to him the day he was born, and the day he dies and the day he will be sent alive [to the Judgment.])
The above between brackets is the explanation about John Baptist in the Quran 19:
يَا يَحْيَى خُذِ الْكِتَابَ بِقُوَّةٍوَآتَيْنَاهُ الْحُكْمَ صَبِيًّا . وَحَنَانًا مِّن لَّدُنَّا وَزَكَاةًوَكَانَ تَقِيًّا . وَبَرًّا بِوَالِدَيْهِ وَلَمْ يَكُنجَبَّارًا عَصِيًّا . وَسَلَامٌ عَلَيْهِ يَوْمَ وُلِدَ وَيَوْمَيَمُوتُ وَيَوْمَ يُبْعَثُ حَيًّا
This also does not indicate any reincarnation: it means: they asked Jesus about that blind man: what has he done to deserve such affliction of the blindness? Or has his parents done anything to deserve such affliction of the blindness of their son?
So the Christ answered them: It is the wisdom of God to manifest His might and to show people about the grace of the blessing of the eyesight.
As I explained it above.
This pertains to Jesus himself who came down from heaven then ascended to it following his death.
Because Jesus was a special thing; he was an angel in heaven among angels, then God created the fetus in the womb of virgin Mary and commanded him to go and enter in the body of the fetus, then he was born in this miraculous way without father.
Who is Jesus Christ, and what is peculiar about him?
All these give no indication of the reincarnation which contradicts the Judgment and requital in the afterlife of every man according to his sins and good work .
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Fist off, no one said reincarnation means that you return immediately to the physical realm. It could take 1 to a thousand or more years. Time is irrelevant in the spiritual realms.
Two, you will say and do anything to justify your belief in the Quran, which has no basis in any reality except in the mind of the believer. Men wrote the Quran, the Torah, the Vedas and the Bible, not gods. Your belief is nothing more than blind faith, just like all the believers in all the books. They are just words on paper, nothing more, nothing less. For those who believe in reincarnation, it is just as real as any of your beliefs and non-beliefs. For you to say they are wrong is to judge them and you are not god so you have no business judging anybody.
You said there were no references to reincarnation in the books and I said there was. It does not mean that I believe or not, it just says you are wrong about the references. I don't care what you believe and if you had any integrity, you would not care what anybody else believes.