The Flotilla....IDF Actions Validated!

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Arms currently reach Gaza through smuggler's tunnels, not through official border crossings and is not affected by Israel's humanitarian aid blockade.

Just so were clear. Are you suggesting that if the blockade was lifted that the arms and bomb making materials would not increase?

Obstructing food and medical humanitarian aid entering Gaza through official border crossings is a crime against humanity and has nothing to do with arms smuggling. Israel's economic blockade which interferes with the ability of Gazans to export cut flowers, strawberries and other goods and services, though official border crossings is collective punishment and has nothing to do with arms smuggling. Israel's taxation of all goods and services flowing into and out of Gaza which is withheld by the Israeli government from the Palestinan people is a form of theft and has nothing to do with arms smuggling.

Perhaps if the Palestinians did not allow themselves to be used by scumbag Countries like Iran and Syria there would be a quick two state solution without the idiocy of sending children to die with suicide vests.

LOL, we can't even get our troops out of Afghanistan, let alone have any say on if they get sent into Lybia. We alraedy took ourselves out of the UN when we started boycotting human rights conferences because it would make Israel look bad if she was the only one not to attend.
We never did back up anything in UN 181 so what makes us ever a member?

Human rights conferences headed up by who?

 

[MHz]

Just so were clear. Are you suggesting that if the blockade was lifted that the arms and bomb making materials would not increase?

Perhaps if the Palestinians did not allow themselves to be used by scumbag Countries like Iran and Syria there would be a quick two state solution without the idiocy of sending children to die with suicide vests.

Human rights conferences headed up by who?

Building supplies would increase and what got shipped to Gaza got to Gaza in a timely manner Even the all Israel would have to do is create some small false flag operation and it is back to making Gaza one big pile of rubble. Having a large amount of people from other Nation wandering around makes the random runs of creating terror might cause some deaths from other Nations doing honest business there. Beach front property to the Med Sea (rather than the Dead Sea) in the Holy Land would make a tidy sum just in yearly fees alone. The buyers would be the Multi -National energy companies that are Friendly to Gaza and Lebanon should most of the resources be found to be in their respective territorial waters. The Nation with the biggest share of the pool would be the ones to do business with, just because directional drilling is more common than not these day. In the year of Gulf I it was a new technique and Kuwait was host to rigs siphoning oil from Iraqi fields. No doubt each field has a unique chemical composition that would tell which field the raw material was coming for. Say the split was 75/25 with Israel on the low end for Gaza and Lebanon, they still get the 25% of the profit (or use for free) from the raw material with no development costs. Israel could always develop the Dead Sea into a chemical battery as the solution to their energy need and it would make them a true energy exporter that would pay more the more 'developed' their neighbors became which comes from progressive research and development programs rather than
build/bomb/rebuild that is the current trend.


How good have we been at holding onto our 'rights and privileges' that were fought for a long time ago and now some have just been 'given up' to our own shame, or it should be, more likely it it colored as being a 'patriot'.
Magna Carta
(in part)
Clauses marked (+) are still valid under the charter of 1225, but with a few minor amendments. Clauses marked (*) were omitted in all later reissues of the charter. In the charter itself the clauses are not numbered, and the text reads continuously. The translation sets out to convey the sense rather than the precise wording of the original Latin.
* (10) If anyone who has borrowed a sum of money from Jews dies before the debt has been repaid, his heir shall pay no interest on the debt for so long as he remains under age, irrespective of whom he holds his lands. If such a debt falls into the hands of the Crown, it will take nothing except the principal sum specified in the bond.
* (11) If a man dies owing money to Jews, his wife may have her dower and pay nothing towards the debt from it. If he leaves children that are under age, their needs may also be provided for on a scale appropriate to the size of his holding of lands. The debt is to be paid out of the residue, reserving the service due to his feudal lords. Debts owed to persons other than Jews are to be dealt with similarly.
* (12) No 'scutage' or 'aid' may be levied in our kingdom without its general consent, unless it is for the ransom of our person, to make our eldest son a knight, and (once) to marry our eldest daughter. For these purposes only a reasonable 'aid' may be levied. 'Aids' from the city of London are to be treated similarly.
+ (13) The city of London shall enjoy all its ancient liberties and free customs, both by land and by water. We also will and grant that all other cities, boroughs, towns, and ports shall enjoy all their liberties and free customs.
Treasures in full: Magna Carta

How about the ones whop confess their own abuses and then give the steps taken to remedy that same situation. Make every Nation open up their books to the international community and have the corporations petition the UN directly rather than covertly through the Governments of the Nations.

 

[Colpy]

We've had this discussion already C. I reject oppression and injustice in all forms against all people. You sometimes support it depending on who suffers and benefits re: race/color/religion. I don't believe relative cruelty justifies tolerance for injustice and oppression. You think it does... and so on.

The oppressed in this conflict will eventually gain freedom and justice. They always do... or die trying. Its human nature.

Some facts which indicate that the current cruelty is unsustainable over the long term.

Israel's chosen people have a low birthrate.

Israel's second class citizens and their non-people without human rights in the West Bank and Gaza have a much higher birthrate.

Israel's heinous crimes against all of its neighbors at one time or another, (deliberately attacking civilians, using chemical weapons, using civilians including children literally as human shields to block bullets and search for explosives, torturing and killing POWs, blocking food and medical humanitarian aid...) and live broadcasts of ongoing Israeli atrocities has led to an increasingly hostile environment.

For the record, I don't condemn all Israelis (the people), Jews (the religion) for Israel's (the nation/government) crimes, just like Israel's supporters shouldn't condemn all Palestinians or Arabs for war crimes committed on that side. We should all condemn the criminals on both sides who deliberately violate fundamental human rights. I am well aware that many people involved in the struggle for Palestinian freedom and justice are Jews and Israelis.

The US will collapse economically sooner or later. That collapse will we accompanied by a significant reduction in US military and economic aid for Israel and friendly dictators who support Israel and turn a blind eye toward Palestinian suffering.

Egyptians and Jordanians lack democratic freedoms as a direct consequence of US/Israeli military and economic aid for their dictators. Eventually these states will overthrow their dictators and replace them with representative governments, which reflects their attitudes regarding Israel, not US/Israeli foreign policy.

Israel has little to no influence on China which will become the dominant world economic (and military) power. Their middle east foreign policies are based access to resources. Their leaders are not influenced by Christian perceptions of Israel, Jews or Muslims.

Eventually Israel will have to support itself militarily and economically without anything more than the token help of a former superpower or the cooperation of friendly dictatorships near its borders.

Israel's adversaries continue to grow more wealthy and powerful. They will eventually acquire tactical and strategic parity with Israel. Iran (which is hostile to the state of Israel, not Jews) will acquire the ability to destroy Israel without nuclear weapons, creating a MAD relationship. Iran, Syria and wealthy powerful people though out the middle east (Pakistan, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen... ) and the world are currently engaged in an indirect proxy war with Israel. As a result of this economic and military support, the Palestinian resistance continues to receive improved quality and quantity of arms and training. Militarily, the long term trend is against Israel.

The current course leads inevitably to Israel's violent destruction and that gives me no sense of pleasure or satisfaction. I'd like to see a peaceful resolution to this conflict where civilians are not harmed by criminals. The Gaza flotilla is part of an international humanitarian effort to pressure Israel into obeying international laws, treaties and conventions. Effectively... part of the effort to end this conflict peacefully. So is the subject of this column:
FCNL: Nonviolent Resistance to Israeli Occupation

BTW, its not just all of Israel's neighbors that grow increasing hostile toward the US/Israel policy regarding Palestinian oppression and injustice. The entire world grows increasing sympathetic for Palestinian justice and freedom. These flotillas indicate that the world is starting to pay attention to the details of this conflict.

And you can't wait........you love the idea of the collapse of western civilization and the Jewish state with it.


Come on.....have the cojones to take your little fantasy to its inevitable conclusion.....said collapse will mean a massacre of Jews unheard of since the darkest days of the European holocaust.

Such a collapse will mean the descent of humanity back into the depths of ignorance, slavery and theological rule that only the Renaissance of western civilization saved us from..........

What you are so enthusiastically predicting is humankind's slide back into the abyss.........

Western civilization, as enjoyed here in Canada, and as led for the last 100 years by the United States of America, has been the absolute apex of human development.

And you want to throw it all in the toilet.....you want to see us at the mercy of the worst mass murderers on earth (the Chinese) on one side, and lunatic theologians, haters of freedom, enslavers of women, the religion of submission and murder (Islam) on the other.


I hope you enjoy yourself in this Brave New World you so desire.

 

[MHz]

Once you become so stuck in the past that you cannot move forward it is time to cut the apron strings. How long before NATO becomes the solution for the Republic of Iceland, in their break from debt-slavery, the same one we will never have the balls to break away from.

You are within a few decades of the grave, you aren't looking ahead to the welfare of your great-grand kids. What was acceptable 100 years ago would not pass the smell test today, yet some things we are involved in are exactly the same as it was 100 years ago.

 

[earth_as_one]

Just so were clear. Are you suggesting that if the blockade was lifted that the arms and bomb making materials would not increase?



Perhaps if the Palestinians did not allow themselves to be used by scumbag Countries like Iran and Syria there would be a quick two state solution without the idiocy of sending children to die with suicide vests.



Human rights conferences headed up by who?

Richard Joseph Goldstone is a third-generation South African born into a Jewish family in Boksburg near Johannesburg. He credits his Jewishness with having shaped his ethical views through being part of a community that has been persecuted throughout history. Goldstone, a former South African judge, headed the influential Goldstone Commission investigations into political violence in South Africa between 1991 and 1994 during the transition from apartheid to multiracial democracy. Goldstone's work enabled multi-party negotiations to remain on course despite repeated outbreaks of violence, and his willingness to criticise all sides led to him being dubbed "perhaps the most trusted man, certainly the most trusted member of the white establishment" in South Africa. Goldstone's work investigating violence led directly to him being nominated to serve as the first chief prosecutor of the United Nations International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia and for Rwanda from August 1994 to September 1996. He prosecuted a number of key war crimes suspects, notably the Bosnian Serb political and military leaders, Radovan Karadžić and Ratko Mladić. On his return to South Africa he took up a seat on the newly-established Constitutional Court of South Africa, to which he had been nominated by President Nelson Mandela. In 2009, Goldstone led a fact-finding mission created by the UN Human Rights Council to investigate international human rights and humanitarian law violations related to the Gaza War. The mission concluded that Israel and Hamas had both potentially committed war crimes and crimes against humanity.

I am not against Israel blocking arms from entering Gaza. I am against Israel blocking lentils, pasta, tomato paste, juice, crayons, stationary, soccer balls, musical instruments, books, candles, clothing, cups, cutlery, crockery, refrigerators, washing machines, corrective glasses, light bulbs, needles, sheets, blankets, books, paper, pens, pencils, shoes, mattresses, spare machine and car parts, wood, glass, aggregate, generators, high voltage cables and wooden telegraph poles from entering Gaza.

A far bigger threat to Israel than tomatoes and pasta would be human and animal urine, which can be converted to explosives.
Chemistry-explosive chemistry of urine

How does Israel plan to block Gazans from having access to their own pee?

You'll have to explain how Gaza's cut flower and strawberry exports threaten Israel. Israel has been blocking Gaza exports since Hamas won democratic elections in 2006.

17 March 2006,
Gaza farmers dumping their crops
By Alan Johnston
BBC News, Gaza
BBC NEWS | Business | Gaza farmers dumping their crops

IMO, Israel's ban of exports leaving Gaza is economic collective punishment aimed at ordinary civilians. Maybe you can explain how Gaza's cut flower and strawberry exports threaten Israeli security?

I'd like to know how Israel taxing all goods and services entering or leaving Gaza and then keeping the money increases Israel's security. That sounds like theft to me. Taxation without representation was one justification for the American revolution.

Palestinians never asked the UN to partition their land and give most of it away to European Jewish refugees fleeing the horrors of Nazi Europe. They never started the ethnic cleansing war which continues to this day. These things happened without their consent or control. As a result they have suffered more than 60 years of injustice and oppression and I expect desperate Palestinians struggling for their fundamental human rights would accept help from anyone including scumbags.

Let me be clear. I support everyone's right to freedom and justice regardless of race or religion. Clear enough?

And you can't wait........you love the idea of the collapse of western civilization and the Jewish state with it.


Come on.....have the cojones to take your little fantasy to its inevitable conclusion.....said collapse will mean a massacre of Jews unheard of since the darkest days of the European holocaust.

Such a collapse will mean the descent of humanity back into the depths of ignorance, slavery and theological rule that only the Renaissance of western civilization saved us from..........

What you are so enthusiastically predicting is humankind's slide back into the abyss.........

Western civilization, as enjoyed here in Canada, and as led for the last 100 years by the United States of America, has been the absolute apex of human development.

And you want to throw it all in the toilet.....you want to see us at the mercy of the worst mass murderers on earth (the Chinese) on one side, and lunatic theologians, haters of freedom, enslavers of women, the religion of submission and murder (Islam) on the other.


I hope you enjoy yourself in this Brave New World you so desire.

Freedom and justice leads to peace. Oppression and injustice leads to war.

I am not responsible for the mess the Americans and Israelis have created for themselves. I'm an innocent bystander watching a train wreck, not an active participant.

Its not too late for the US to become fiscally responsible and save themselves and the world from an economic catastrophe, but their current course will lead to a great depression.

Its never too late for peace, but Israel's current course will lead to their violent destruction. I expect that many Israelis will get what they've been giving to the Palestinians, but that doesn't mean I support violence, injustice, war crimes or crimes against humanity. In fact when crunch time comes, I'd support accepting Jewish refugees into Canada for humanitarian reasons, unlike how the Canadian government behaved during this incident:
http://www.gov.ns.ca/news/details.asp?id=20091105005

 

[Colpy]

Richard Joseph Goldstone is a third-generation South African born into a Jewish family in Boksburg near Johannesburg. He credits his Jewishness with having shaped his ethical views through being part of a community that has been persecuted throughout history. Goldstone, a former South African judge, headed the influential Goldstone Commission investigations into political violence in South Africa between 1991 and 1994 during the transition from apartheid to multiracial democracy. Goldstone's work enabled multi-party negotiations to remain on course despite repeated outbreaks of violence, and his willingness to criticise all sides led to him being dubbed "perhaps the most trusted man, certainly the most trusted member of the white establishment" in South Africa. Goldstone's work investigating violence led directly to him being nominated to serve as the first chief prosecutor of the United Nations International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia and for Rwanda from August 1994 to September 1996. He prosecuted a number of key war crimes suspects, notably the Bosnian Serb political and military leaders, Radovan Karadžić and Ratko Mladić. On his return to South Africa he took up a seat on the newly-established Constitutional Court of South Africa, to which he had been nominated by President Nelson Mandela. In 2009, Goldstone led a fact-finding mission created by the UN Human Rights Council to investigate international human rights and humanitarian law violations related to the Gaza War. The mission concluded that Israel and Hamas had both potentially committed war crimes and crimes against humanity.

I am not against Israel blocking arms from entering Gaza. I am against Israel blocking lentils, pasta, tomato paste, juice, crayons, stationary, soccer balls, musical instruments, books, candles, clothing, cups, cutlery, crockery, refrigerators, washing machines, corrective glasses, light bulbs, needles, sheets, blankets, books, paper, pens, pencils, shoes, mattresses, spare machine and car parts, wood, glass, aggregate, generators, high voltage cables and wooden telegraph poles from entering Gaza.

A far bigger threat to Israel than tomatoes and pasta would be human and animal urine, which can be converted to explosives.
Chemistry-explosive chemistry of urine

How does Israel plan to block Gazans from having access to their own pee?

You'll have to explain how Gaza's cut flower and strawberry exports threaten Israel. Israel has been blocking Gaza exports since Hamas won democratic elections in 2006.

17 March 2006,
Gaza farmers dumping their crops
By Alan Johnston
BBC News, Gaza
BBC NEWS | Business | Gaza farmers dumping their crops

IMO, Israel's ban of exports leaving Gaza is economic collective punishment aimed at ordinary civilians. Maybe you can explain how Gaza's cut flower and strawberry exports threaten Israeli security?

I'd like to know how Israel taxing all goods and services entering or leaving Gaza and then keeping the money increases Israel's security. That sounds like theft to me. Taxation without representation was one justification for the American revolution.

Palestinians never asked the UN to partition their land and give most of it away to European Jewish refugees fleeing the horrors of Nazi Europe. They never started the ethnic cleansing war which continues to this day. These things happened without their consent or control. As a result they have suffered more than 60 years of injustice and oppression and I expect desperate Palestinians struggling for their fundamental human rights would accept help from anyone including scumbags.

Let me be clear. I support everyone's right to freedom and justice regardless of race or religion. Clear enough?



Freedom and justice leads to peace. Oppression and injustice leads to war.

I am not responsible for the mess the Americans and Israelis have created for themselves. I'm an innocent bystander watching a train wreck, not an active participant.

Its not too late for the US to become fiscally responsible and save themselves and the world from an economic catastrophe, but their current course will lead to a great depression.

Its never too late for peace, but Israel's current course will lead to their violent destruction. I expect that many Israelis will get what they've been giving to the Palestinians, but that doesn't mean I support violence, injustice, war crimes or crimes against humanity. In fact when crunch time comes, I'd support evacuating Israelis to Canada for humanitarian reasons.

The FACTS:

Goldstone REPUDIATED his own report.

There can be NO freedom or justice under Islamic law.

Islam calls for the slaughter of Jews.

The ONLY free nations in the Middle East are ISRAEL, Turkey (rapidly backsliding) and Iraq.

All the Palestinians need to do for peace is recognize Israel, and quit throwing bullets and explosives at them........

 

[gerryh]

Why is the goldstone report still being used in arguments? It isn't worth the paper it was written on. As soon as Goldstone came out and retracted parts the entire report becomes so much garbage. Those that continue to use it to support their arguments are only showing how weak their side really is.

 

[earth_as_one]

Only apologists for Israeli war criminals claim Justice Goldstone repudiated his report.

Goldstone's alleged "repudiation" article:
Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and war crimes - The Washington Post

In the article he says:

...If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document...

...the most serious attack the Goldstone Report focused on was the killing of some 29 members of the al-Simouni family in their home. The shelling of the home was apparently the consequence of an Israeli commander’s erroneous interpretation of a drone image, and an Israeli officer is under investigation for having ordered the attack...

I'm sure the report would have been different if Israel had allowed Goldstone to interview the Israeli officer who ordered the attack. The report may have even concluded that rounding up an entire neighborhood, forcing them at gunpoint into a single building and then shelling the building with heavy artillery was just a series of mistakes. But I doubt the Israelis can explain all the incidents which appear to be deliberate crimes as mistakes, like the 4 days or so that the Israeli military blocked ambulances and the Red Cross from evacuating the wounded from the above incident.

Here's what the Red Cross had to say about this same incident:

...The ICRC had requested safe passage for ambulances to access this neighbourhood since 3 January but it only received permission to do so from the Israel Defense Forces during the afternoon of 7 January.

The ICRC/PRCS team found four small children next to their dead mothers in one of the houses. They were too weak to stand up on their own. One man was also found alive, too weak to stand up. In all there were at least 12 corpses lying on mattresses.

In another house, the ICRC/PRCS rescue team found 15 other survivors of this attack including several wounded. In yet another house, they found an additional three corpses. Israeli soldiers posted at a military position some 80 meters away from this house ordered the rescue team to leave the area which they refused to do. There were several other positions of the Israel Defense Forces nearby as well as two tanks...

Gaza: ICRC demands urgent access to wounded as Israeli army fails to assist wounded Palestinians

If these people were Jews and the people shooting at the ambulances were Muslims, I suspect even Colpy might conclude this incident was a war crime. But since the victims were non-humans and the perpetrators were God's chosen people, no serious harm came to any "person".

If the above sounds too far fetched to be true, you can see for yourself Israel respects ambulance drivers and medics here in this video:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/23/gaza-war-crimes-medics

Shooting at ambulances and blocking the evacuation of the wounded is a war crime.

But if you don't trust the Red Cross or Justice Goldstone, you can always read what Israeli soldiers say they saw and did here:
Breaking the Silence › Database

Like I said, the only people who claim Israel does not commit war crimes are the war criminals themselves and their supporters. Pretty much every independent humanitarian organization which operates in this region has claimed the Israelis have committed war crimes.

Amnesty International:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/MDE15/015/2009/en

Human Rights Watch:
http://www.hrw.org/en/features/israel-gaza

The International Federation for Human Rights
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/publisher,IFHR,,PSE,49885788c,0.html

I can post dozens more references to independent humanitarian organzations reports which conclude that Israel commits war crimes. Not a single independent humanitarian organization has claimed that Israel did not... at least as far as I know. Please post a link to an independent humanitarian organization which "repudiates" Goldstone's report.

 

[Colpy]

Only apologists for Israeli war criminals claim Justice Goldstone repudiated his report.

Goldstone's alleged "repudiation" article:
Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and war crimes - The Washington Post

In the article he says:
I'm sure the report would have been different if Israel had allowed Goldstone to interview the Israeli officer who ordered the attack. The report may have even concluded that rounding up an entire neighborhood, forcing them at gunpoint into a single building and then shelling the building with heavy artillery was just a series of mistakes. But I doubt the Israelis can explain all the incidents which appear to be deliberate crimes as mistakes, like the 4 days or so that the Israeli military blocked ambulances and the Red Cross from evacuating the wounded from the above incident.

Here's what the Red Cross had to say about this same incident:

Gaza: ICRC demands urgent access to wounded as Israeli army fails to assist wounded Palestinians

If these people were Jews and the people shooting at the ambulances were Muslims, I suspect even Colpy might conclude this incident was a war crime. But since the victims were non-humans and the perpetrators were God's chosen people, no serious harm came to any "person".

If the above sounds too far fetched to be true, you can see for yourself Israel respects ambulance drivers and medics here in this video:
Under attack: how medics died trying to help Gaza's casualties | World news | guardian.co.uk

Shooting at ambulances and blocking the evacuation of the wounded is a war crime.

But if you don't trust the Red Cross or Justice Goldstone, you can always read what Israeli soldiers say they saw and did here:
Breaking the Silence › Database

Like I said, the only people who claim Israel does not commit war crimes are the war criminals themselves and their supporters. Pretty much every independent humanitarian organization which operates in this region has claimed the Israelis have committed war crimes.

Amnesty International:
Israel/Gaza: Operation "Cast Lead": 22 days of death and destruction | Amnesty International

Human Rights Watch:
Israel/Gaza | Human Rights Watch

The International Federation for Human Rights
UNHCR | Refworld | Operation Cast Lead: Final statement of a mission of prominent lawyers and activists.

I can post dozens more references to independent humanitarian organzations reports which conclude that Israel commits war crimes. Not a single independent humanitarian organization has claimed that Israel did not... at least as far as I know. Please post a link to an independent humanitarian organization which "repudiates" Goldstone's report.

The same moronic BS.

The ratio of civilian:combatant deaths was 1:1

That is ONE TENTH what is expected in modern war.

Against an enemy that hides among the people in the most densely populated area on earth.

That in itself PROVES there was NO concerted effort by the Israelis to kill civilians.

In fact it makes it obvious the Israelis tried exceptionally hard to avoid civilian casualties.

Therefore Israel is innocent of war crimes, and isolated incidents must be taken as simply tragedies that happen in the fog of war.

THAT is linear thought........based on the numbers, as admitted by the Palestinians themselves......

But when it comes to Jews, you simply can't deal with logic.

Arguing with you over this is like banging your head on a brick wall......because you are completely incapable of admitting that the Israelis might not have done wrong, no matter what the evidence produced.

What does that tell you????

I'm to bed, my head hurts

why is the goldstone report still being used in arguments? It isn't worth the paper it was written on. As soon as goldstone came out and retracted parts the entire report becomes so much garbage. Those that continue to use it to support their arguments are only showing how weak their side really is.

exactly!!!!!

Only apologists for Israeli war criminals claim Justice Goldstone repudiated his report.

.

Unfortunately for your argument, there WERE NO ISRAELI WAR CRIMES, therefore one can hardly be an apologist, can one??? lol

 

[Goober]

Its never too late for peace, but Israel's current course will lead to their violent destruction. I expect that many Israelis will get what they've been giving to the Palestinians, but that doesn't mean I support violence, injustice, war crimes or crimes against humanity. In fact when crunch time comes, I'd support accepting Jewish refugees into Canada for humanitarian reasons, unlike how the Canadian government behaved during this incident:
Maritime Museum Exhibit on Tragic Voyage of MS St. Louis | News Releases | Government of Nova Scotia

The above is nothing but a clear statement wishing for the destruction of the State of Israel. Perhaps you should start a thread on the kindly treatment that Assad is giving his fellow citizens. More killed in the last few months than the last War in Gaza. Oh yes, there not Jews doing the killing.

Guess that makes clear how Jews would be treated now doesn't it.

And you are against violence. Whitey speak with many forked tongue I say.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Earth as One you might be engaged in discussion if you didn't post these diatribes and answer the simple question I asked. I'll try again.

Just so were clear. Are you suggesting that if the blockade was lifted that the arms and bomb making materials would not increase?

 

[Goober]

Earth as One you might be engaged in discussion if you didn't post these diatribes and answer the simple question I asked. I'll try again.

Just so were clear. Are you suggesting that if the blockade was lifted that the arms and bomb making materials would not increase?

You will be waiting a long time for a clear answer to a clear and easy question.Just the way Mr. Cut & Paste works.

I am sure the question has sent him off a spinnin and a weaving and webbing a vast creation of dither & dathering with a large dose or irrelevancy when he decides to answer.

 

[earth_as_one]

Earth as One you might be engaged in discussion if you didn't post these diatribes and answer the simple question I asked. I'll try again.

Just so were clear. Are you suggesting that if the blockade was lifted that the arms and bomb making materials would not increase?

I guess you didn't see this:

...I am not against Israel blocking arms from entering Gaza. I am against Israel blocking lentils, pasta, tomato paste, juice, crayons, stationary, soccer balls, musical instruments, books, candles, clothing, cups, cutlery, crockery, refrigerators, washing machines, corrective glasses, light bulbs, needles, sheets, blankets, books, paper, pens, pencils, shoes, mattresses, spare machine and car parts, wood, glass, aggregate, generators, high voltage cables and wooden telegraph poles from entering Gaza.

A far bigger threat to Israel than tomatoes and pasta would be human and animal urine, which can be converted to explosives.
Chemistry-explosive chemistry of urine

How does Israel plan to block Gazans from having access to their own pee?

You'll have to explain how Gaza's cut flower and strawberry exports threaten Israel. Israel has been blocking Gaza exports since Hamas won democratic elections in 2006.

17 March 2006,
Gaza farmers dumping their crops
By Alan Johnston
BBC News, Gaza
BBC NEWS | Business | Gaza farmers dumping their crops

IMO, Israel's ban of exports leaving Gaza is economic collective punishment aimed at ordinary civilians. Maybe you can explain how Gaza's cut flower and strawberry exports threaten Israeli security?

I'd like to know how Israel taxing all goods and services entering or leaving Gaza and then keeping the money increases...

Clear enough?

I support an arms embargo against Palestinian militants. I do not support Israel's economic and humanitarian aid embargo which collectively punishes civilians and is counter productive to peace efforts. I support Canada's policies regarding Palestinian war criminals. (all material support is illegal)

BTW, I would also Canada holding Israeli war criminals to the same standard as Palestinian ones. Canada should not unshakably support Israeli war criminals. Canada should treat all war criminals the same way, regardless of race or religion.

 

[gerryh]

BTW, I would also Canada holding Israeli war criminals to the same standard as Palestinian ones. Canada should not unshakably support Israeli war criminals. Canada should treat all war criminals the same way, regardless of race or religion.

Could you please point out which Israeli war criminals that Canada is supporting?

 

[ironsides]

The IDF did just what there supposed to do to many so called essential supplies can and are used for other purposes. Israel must protect themselves first of all. Greece stopped the latest Flotilla, if that is what you want to call a couple of floating wrecks.

 

[earth_as_one]

The same moronic BS.

The ratio of civilian:combatant deaths was 1:1

That is ONE TENTH what is expected in modern war.

Against an enemy that hides among the people in the most densely populated area on earth.

That in itself PROVES there was NO concerted effort by the Israelis to kill civilians.

In fact it makes it obvious the Israelis tried exceptionally hard to avoid civilian casualties.

Therefore Israel is innocent of war crimes, and isolated incidents must be taken as simply tragedies that happen in the fog of war.

THAT is linear thought........based on the numbers, as admitted by the Palestinians themselves......

But when it comes to Jews, you simply can't deal with logic.

Arguing with you over this is like banging your head on a brick wall......because you are completely incapable of admitting that the Israelis might not have done wrong, no matter what the evidence produced.

What does that tell you????

I'm to bed, my head hurts



exactly!!!!!



Unfortunately for your argument, there WERE NO ISRAELI WAR CRIMES, therefore one can hardly be an apologist, can one??? lol

If crimes were committed by individual Israeli soldiers as you admit in a previous post in this thread, then Israelis have committed war crimes. I never claimed it was official Israeli government policy for Israeli soldiers to abduct Palestinian children and use them to block bullets and search for explosives. I doubt you could find an official Hamas policy which says that Palestinians should fire rockets and mortars randomly in the direction of Israeli civilians. But the fact is every independent humanitarian organization which has examined this conflict has determined that both Israelis and Palestinians committed war crimes. To the credit of Israel`s criminal justice system, they have investigated a few incidents, but they have never handed out a deterrent level of punishment to any Israeli covicted of war crimes. Usually the punishment for committing a war crime is a suspended sentence. Hamas cannot claim to have even investigated war crimes allegations, let alone hand out appropriate sentences.

BTW, in the last battle, Palestinian militants killed 6 Israeli soldiers and 3 civilians. That would be a 2:1 ratio or about twice as good as Israel`s ratio. Despite this, Palestinian militants randomly firing rockets and missiles in the general direction of Israeli civilians is still a war crime, just like Israeli soldiers shooting at ambulances and medics or Israeli war planes bombing Palestinian hospitals are still war crimes.

 

[gerryh]

Could you please point out which Israeli war criminals that Canada is supporting?

bump

 

[gerryh]

Could you please point out which Israeli war criminals that Canada is supporting?

Is the question too hard for you? Or is it a matter of you can't back up your bullshyte.

 

[EagleSmack]

Tell me again how some letters being delivered to Gaza directly is a threat to Israel?

Interference with the mail used to be a hanging offense, knocking over a rural-mailbox is still a federal crime.

This flotilla is a postal ship? They're delivering the mail? oh brother.

 

[Colpy]

Something else that sticks in my craw.......

The Sea Hitler.....aka the Tahir, the Canadian ship that was part of the floptilla bound for Gaza........

Do you know how much the voyage cost???

$300,000

Do you know how much the relief supplies on board were worth????

$27,000

Now, imagine how much good $300,000 would have done if given to a relief agency and used somewhere it was REALLY needed,like Somalia or the Sudan.........or even in Gaza......

Instead of burned on the altar of useful idiots' Jew hatred and self-importance.

Morons.