Obama urges future Palestinian state be based on '67 borders

earth_as_one

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Jan 5, 2006
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...In April of 1964 6 cabins were built and by the end of the summer they were occupied by 25 volunteers from Switzerland, Holland and the U.S. German volunteers received permission to remain in the country only after 1970....

...In 1966 the local council of Ge'aton, (today Matte Asher) recognized Nes Ammim as an official settlement ...


Wonderful... another colony of foreigners on former Palestinian land. The core problem was ethnic cleansing of the locals and occupation by foreigners...

BTW, there used to be many Palestinian Christian villages in Israel until the locals were forced off the land and into refugee camps.
 

gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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By the way, still waiting for proof that integration and democratization is going to bring about genocide like the vacuous one said.

Got a feeling this is gonna be a long wait.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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JERUSALEM, May 15 (Reuters) - Israeli troops shot Palestinian protesters who surged towards its frontiers with Syria, Lebanon and Gaza on Sunday, killing at least 13 people on the day Palestinians mourn the establishment of Israel in 1948.

In the deadliest such confrontation in years of anniversary clashes usually confined to the West Bank and Gaza, Israeli forces opened fire in three separate border locations to prevent crowds of demonstrators from crossing frontier lines.

The new challenge to Israel came from the borders of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Gaza — all home to hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who fled or were driven out in 1948.

Combined with a public relations disaster last year over the killing of pro-Palestinian activists in a Gaza aid flotilla and a determined Palestinian diplomatic drive to win U.N. recognition of statehood in September this year, the bloody border protests raised the stakes further for Israel.
Where's the Christians?

The South seceded from the Union because it refused to obey the laws. Today, they comply with the Constitution just like everybody else. Therefore this refutes your idea.


You forgot all about the civil war.

You know, the part where the south was brought to heel by military might.

Wonderful... another colony of foreigners on former Palestinian land. The core problem was ethnic cleansing of the locals and occupation by foreigners...
Again I ask, when are you leaving Canada?

[quiote]BTW, there used to be many Palestinian Christian villages in Israel until the locals were forced off the land and into refugee camps.[/QUOTE]I read your article, it was a greater condemnation of Paletinian authorities and Palestine, than Israel.

By the way, still waiting for proof that integration and democratization is going to bring about genocide like the vacuous one said.
Funny, you gave me a thumbs down for it, instead of formulating a reasoned reply. Not that I'm surprised. That's what the vacuous do.

Hamas, was the 'duly' elected gov't in a democratic Gaza. They have a written policy of Jewish genocide in the charter. There are laws against Jews owning property, and so on.

These are facts.

If you think a majority, made up of people that voted for that kind of hate, is going to create a 'democracy' in which everyone is free, you have serious mental issues.

Anyone that thinks Hamas will adhere to laws that state that Jews are equal to Muslims, is a moron.

Got a feeling this is gonna be a long wait.
I've been waiting 5 years for you to even attempt to prove one of your personal attacks.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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The South seceded from the Union because it refused to obey the laws. Today, they comply with the Constitution just like everybody else. Therefore this refutes your idea.

But this brings up a point - it is the Republican party that has always asserted that it it the one party that has always affirmed integration, unification, and democratization. Its history in the 1860s and 1870s do bear this out. Then under Bush it started a war in Iraq ostensibly to promote democratization and unification by unifying that divided country. Today it is Republicans who assert that they never practice any form of discrimination and that they are all for Christian values. For those of you who have read the Bible, you know fully well that integration is a part of that religion's professed ideals. So why aren't Christian professing Republicans calling for the same thing here? Where are the forum's Republicans and Canadian republican wannabes to demand a one state solution which fully integrates ALL people of Israel and Palestine? If Republicans were consistent in their principles this is what they would demand.

And the Democrats started the full blown war in Vietnam. Trying to say the are any different? Pretty much the same reasons.

The South seceded from the Union because it refused to obey the laws. Today, they comply with the Constitution just like everybody else. Therefore this refutes your idea.

QUOTE]
The South did not secede from the North because it refused to obey the law. At the time of secession, the United States was a Republic (technically still is). The south just didn't like the central government from telling states what they could or couldn't do. Under the Republic states rule, they don't like something they walk away. Lincoln and the Civil War ended that concept from ever happening again.

"Beginning with the Constitution's adoption, America has been a Republic. But the dominant trend over the last two centuries has been to make it into a democracy as well, a representative democracy, also known as a democratic republic. True, the creation of the Constitution itself was partly a reaction against democracy. In states like Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Massachusetts, the situation was getting way too democratic for the monied aristocracy that had, since the American Revolution, refused to share power with ordinary men."
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Muslims have saved my life more than once. I'm going to see one on Tuesday for an Rx refill. I hope she doesn't switch it and try to kill me because I'm part Jew, blued eyed/grey eyed and white as a ghost?

My GP is muslim as well.. and I recently got stopped by an orthodox because they thought I was a jew, lol.

I'm starting to get worried now. ;)
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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How can someone be part Jew, either you believe in the Jewish religion or you don't.

Under that concept, I am part Catholic and part Jewish. Never had any Jewish training or up bringing though my GP was a practicing Jew.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Where's the Christians?
Just outside your stereotype zone.

How can someone be part Jew, either you believe in the Jewish religion or you don't.

Under that concept, I am part Catholic and part Jewish. Never had any Jewish training or up bringing though my GP was a practicing Jew.
You never read any of the OT? Lucky you.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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I personally would have liked Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to have come back with this retort. You nuts Mr. President, I will see that we do just as you suggested when the United States returns to Mexico all lands seized in 1846 - 1848 war. President Obama and any country or person who agrees with him are just out of their minds. It will never happen, maybe a few nonstrategic areas, but that would be about it.


"The Mexican War between the United States and Mexico began with a Mexican attack on American troops along the southern border of Texas on Apr. 25, 1846. Fighting ended when U.S. Gen. Winfield Scott occupied Mexico City on Sept. 14, 1847; a few months later a peace treaty was signed (Feb. 2, 1848) at Guadalupe Hidalgo. In addition to recognizing the U.S. annexation of Texas defeated Mexico ceded California and , New Mexico (including all the present-day states of the Southwest) to the United States."
 

gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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I've been waiting 5 years for you to even attempt to prove one of your personal attacks.

Stop! You're killing me with laughter!


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The south just didn't like the central government from telling states what they could or couldn't do.

That's right - they refused to recognize that the Federal government is empowered by the Constitution's supremacy clause and necessary and proper clause to override state laws or other considerations. That's why they seceded illegally since there is no constitutional precedent for allowing this unilateral action.


the creation of the Constitution itself was partly a reaction against democracy

Not so. It was clearly a reaction to monarchal tyranny and because of the weakness of the Articles of Confederation which were felt to be too weak to unify the country against foreign invasion. See Ratification: The People Debate the Constitution 1787-1788 by Pauline Meyer.
 

Colpy

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And he promised to tell Congress that when Israeli-style democracy – with elections and free speech and rights for gays and women – is achieved by the Arab world then the whole region will be a better, safer place.

“It’s time to recognize this basic truth,” Mr. Netanyahu said: “Israel is not what’s wrong about the Middle East, Israel is what’s right about the Middle East.”

I might grow to like this guy yet.

Israel cannot return to ‘indefensible’ ‘67 borders, Netanyahu repeats - The Globe and Mail

Sometimes one wonders if people actually realize the size of Israel.........

pre-67 borders, 20,600 sq kilometers.

Let me put that in perspective. I live in New Brunswick, the third smallest Canadian province. It is 3 and one half times the size of Israel. If israel were a Canadian province, it would be the second smallest province, larger only than tiny PEI. If Israel were a US State, it would be the fourth smallest state, smaller than the state of New Jersey.........

To put that in perspective, there is a lots of places in Israel where you can walk across the country, from the 67 border with the West Bank to the sea.......in three HOURS.

Israel is NOT returning to pre-67 borders. Nor should it.
 
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MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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Let me put that in perspective. I live in New Brunswick, the third smallest Canadian province. It is 3 and one half times the size of Israel..
Lets put them on a budget equal to 1/3 of NB then, see how they make out then. I would bet they have as many ways as NB does in a year.
 

MHz

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It has been decided that Israel needs that piece of land so be on your way and be gone by nightfall, would that make it easier for you to see the past for what it is?
 

MHz

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To put that in perspective, there is a lots of places in Israel where you can walk across the country, from the 67 border with the West Bank to the sea.......in three HOURS.
Try walking for 3 hours in any direction in Gaza or the West Bank without coming to a 'fence' designed just for you, democracy stops at the color of your ID card.. So about $3B worth of new arms yearly for each 7M people in all the Mid East

Syria 22M = $9B in new arms every year

Iran 75M = $30B in new arms every year

Egypt 82M = $33B in new arms every year

It seems more like who 'gets' the most arms per year gets the loudest voice. Not that there is anything funny about the situation over there you might find this entertaining or disturbing. Run NB in the same way Israel is currently run, use fishermen as the residents of Gaza and apply the stats for Israel to NB.
How many people would be involved in Military activities?
How much revenue does the 'war machine' use and how much does it bring in? (start out at $3B in the black)
How often does NB accept advice from the rest of Canada compared to how many times in a year would NB be telling the rest of Canada what they (not should) better be doing or as in the US you won't find a career in politics.

(in part)
McKinney said that if a candidate does not sign the pledge or perform accordingly, “then you do not get money to run your campaign.”
The former Congresswoman said that after she made the pledge issue public “the tactic changed.”
She said, “But this is what is done for 535 members of the United States Congress, 100 senators and 435 members of the House of Representatives have to now write a paragraph which basically says the same thing.”
Former Congresswoman: US lawmakers forced to support Israel'

Between the two speeches many newscasts said without Jewish support the Obama might as well throw in the towel right now as far as being able to win the next election. That would go for any candidate. Who gets to do the same sort of activity inside Israel? If Israel gets to call the shots for what other Nations should be doing (inside their own borders) then why do 'formal requests' through UN Resolutions all get turned away, if the 'acts' were 'moral and justified' then she shouldn't complain when those same acts are committed against her. Depending what the goal was, peace or war, one path would be better than the other, so far Israel has intentionally taken the path that can cause confrontations rather than the other path which would start out by not creating a democracy on the basis that the 'majority' was arrived at by a few killing or chasing some specific citizens(Arabs/Muslims) from their homes (70,000-100,000) before 'independence' and then another 600,000 citizens of Israel who happen to be Arab Muslims, that is their 'idea' of democracy. Hope the Dictators never catch onto that 'system', it would make their job so much easier.

Other than that you have a valid point, population and not area is the important part. Does a Jew worshiping in Israel have a better chance at getting through to God than one worshiping in NB?

Dodge pilgrim.
Is that the new model that comes withe pedals and a chain drive?

Israel is NOT returning to pre-67 borders. Nor should it.
I was suggesting that the money made off the land in the Golan Heights should be turned over to Syria, that shows the are is vital as a security zone rather than being a treasure because it has productive farmland. Renting the land makes their security cost less than if they had no right to be in the area. Rent payable on the up n up rather than Quebec and NFLD doing a deal to sell power to the US and it is Quebec that screws her own partner. You get the drift I'm sure.
 

Unforgiven

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May 28, 2007
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The bottom line is and always is that Israel needs to be secure and free of terrorist acts. That Palestinians are notorious for terrorist acts and has a mortal loathing for Israel and wants all Jews pushed into the sea means that it's going to be difficult to find a compromise between these two.

Another factor is I think, that Israel doesn't put much stock in the UN to prevent aggression within a Palestinian state from spilling over into Israel and harming people there.

The pockets and sectors that make up the State of Israel and the Palestinian people is a huge problem. They need two pieces of land with a line between them to be able to have proper borders. All this sacred land business is what causes a lot of the problems. Neither will live in peace with the other. Separate and fortified borders is what will bring peace to the land. That won't work with pockets of Palestinians having to cross Israel to get to other parts of a Palestinian state.

Israel should play her cards right here and find a way to come to terms with what the US wants. Trade land for land to build an enclosed state without any pockets of Palestinian land within it's borders. The Palestinians too should barter for their own state without Israel being among them. Then neither is occupied nor under any threat. Start trouble and suffer the consequences.
 

MHz

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....all Jews pushed into the sea ...

.....find a way to come to terms with what the US wants.....
Gaza has their back to the sea.

Us citizens do not live there, not even some 5-7M Arab Israelis are allowed to live there and when Gaza did vote for a Government the US and Israel declared it 'void'. Why would anybody from there listen to the US? lol look how fast the US backtracks as soon as money and winning are mentioned.