Study: Reduce the welfare state, not immigration

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
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Reduce the welfare state, not immigration


This week, the Fraser Institute released a major study on immigration in Canada. It tracks the income earned, taxes paid and public benefits received by new Canadians since 1987. Contrary to popular belief, the authors conclude, immigrants no longer represent a net economic gain: “The low average incomes of immigrants, combined with the provisions of our welfare state, have reduced the average per-capita incomes of [all] Canadians.” A summary of the calculations contained in the study appears in an op-ed published elsewhere on these pages by Fraser Institute Senior Fellow Herbert Grubel. The annual fiscal burden of immigration, he argues, comes to about $25-billion.

To remedy this problem, the study authors propose that we replace the current immigration system with one that would issue temporary renewable two-year work visas, under strict conditions, to persons who found employment in Canada. After four years of continued employment, a worker would qualify for a permanent immigrant visa, and two years later, would be eligible to apply for citizenship.

The study also proposes to eliminate the family class of immigrants — a group that consists in large part of parents and grandparents with scant language or job skills. Under the new rules, only spouses and dependents could immigrate; as an exception, the study proposes that parents and grandparents might be sponsored through an annuity program funded by their younger relatives. The argument here is that older, unemployed immigrants use our health-care system, but don’t pay the taxes that fund it.

Mr. Grubel and his co-author, Patrick Grady, are to be lauded for embarking on this comprehensive effort to catalogue the economic effects of immigration. But their focus on the direct fiscal costs and benefits is too limited to serve, by itself, as a basis for creating public policy. Looking beyond dollars and cents, Canadian governments should encourage, where possible, the integrity and cohesiveness of families, whether they be immigrant or native-born — even if not everyone in the family earns wages and pays taxes.

What of the many people born in Canada who never pay any taxes, yet use our health-care system? By the logic at play in the Fraser study, a stay-at-home mother or elderly married woman who was born in Canada but never worked outside the home should also be regarded as a drain on our economy. In fact, if state benefits were tied to income taxes, 40% of Canadians would not receive them, because they don’t pay any. Yet these Canadians generally contribute to society in other ways — by raising children, doing unpaid work inside households, or as future taxpayers.

Many native-born Canadians wonder how it is that new immigrants can work 16-hour shifts at a convenience store or balance multiple full-time jobs, even though they have small children. The answer, in many cases, is the caregiving grandmother or grandfather living at home — the very folks who immigration hawks ask us to regard as an economic nullity.

As any visit to an urban Canadian hospital, child-care facility or old-age home will attest, Canada needs immigrants to fill many of the jobs that native-born Canadians can’t or won’t do. And many of our most economically vibrant communities — such as Toronto’s northern suburbs — are full of immigrant entrepreneurs. Much of our nation’s future economic progress depends on them.


National Post editorial board: Reduce the welfare state, not immigration | Full Comment | National Post
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
The first part of this story put me in a negative mood to start with. Mention the word
Fraser Institute and I become suspicious they have very little credibility in the real
world, they are somewhat like Fox News, a lot of words and little substance.
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
7,026
73
48
Winnipeg
Hm.. I'm not familiar with them.

I might just do a little research.

Neither is damngrumpy, with neither Fraser Institute (he thinks it's a shack along the bank of the Fraser River) nor FOX News, because he never watched it.

And too ignorant to do research on either.
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
4,709
286
83
Canada
The study also proposes to eliminate the family class of immigrants — a group that consists in large part of parents and grandparents with scant language or job skills. Under the new rules, only spouses and dependents could immigrate; as an exception, the study proposes that parents and grandparents might be sponsored through an annuity program funded by their younger relatives. The argument here is that older, unemployed immigrants use our health-care system, but don’t pay the taxes that fund it.

Toronto’s northern suburbs — are full of immigrant entrepreneurs. Much of our nation’s future economic progress depends on them.[/B]
L]
I agree with elimination of family class immigration.

Toronto, Toronto is the only major city in Canada that has not been able to grow their GDP in the past year. What does that tell you??
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
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Nakusp, BC
Neither is damngrumpy, with neither Fraser Institute (he thinks it's a shack along the bank of the Fraser River) nor FOX News, because he never watched it.

And too ignorant to do research on either.
As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I knew it came out of the Fraser Institute - a right wing "think(?)" tank with no credibility west of extreme right wing loons. They have been spouting this crap for as long as I have lived in BC (1972).
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
0
36
Edson, AB
Hm.. I'm not familiar with them.

I might just do a little research.

Very right wing group, they look left to see the Harper conservatives and Bush republicans. They probably look left to see the libertarians. Generally associated with privatization, globalism and NWO types.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
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The only people I know that consider the Fraser Institute extreme right also think that the Canadian Center for Policy Alternatives have viable solutions for the economy.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
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Minnesota: Gopher State
''reduce the welfare state''

I did not read that article but wonder if its conclusions discussed government subsidization of industries and corporate forms of welfare that exist in Canada. What does the opposition say about these matters?
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I knew it came out of the Fraser Institute - a right wing "think(?)" tank with no credibility west of extreme right wing loons. They have been spouting this crap for as long as I have lived in BC (1972).

No credibility west of extreme right wing loons?.. Is that the rough translation from those groups/lobbies that believes the state owes them a living at any cost?

Lemme guess, your solution is to tax the "rich", and by "rich", that means anyone that makes more than you, 'cause they owe it to you afterall.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
118,621
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Low Earth Orbit
Is it better to import a quarter million Temporaray Permit Workers from Mexico every year because there are 250,000 Canadians who don't need to work?

NAFTA Temporary Work Permits (TN Visas)

Certain American and Mexican professionals can obtain three year

Temporary Work Permits (TN Visas) to live and work in Canada.

The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) was created in 1993 to facilitate trade between Canada, the United States, and Mexico – including the trade of skilled labour. Given Canada’s workforce shortages and its consequent heavy reliance on immigration and foreign workers to maintain its workforce growth, there are many career opportunities north of the border for American and Mexican citizens.
The three countries have agreed on labour mobility standards for 63 professional occupations (listed below), for which professionals can work in another member country without having to re-qualify under the host country's certification standards.
To qualify, applicants must be American or Mexican citizens and have a job offer from a Canadian employer in one of the 63 recognized occupations under NAFTA. With the job offer, applicants must apply for a Canadian Temporary Work Permit (TN Visa). This is a fast and relatively simple way for Americans and Mexicans become engaged in the Canadian workforce.
NAFTA’s List of Professionals


General
  • Accountant
  • Architect
  • Computer Systems Analyst
  • Disaster relief Insurance Claims Adjuster
  • Economist
  • Engineer
  • Forester
  • Graphic Designer
  • Hotel Manager
  • Industrial Designer
  • Interior Designer
  • Land Surveyor
  • Landscape Architect
  • Lawyer (including Notary in the Province of Quebec)
  • Librarian
  • Management Consultant
  • Mathematician (including Statistician)
  • Range Manager/ Range Conservationalist
  • Research Assistant (working in a post-secondary educational institution)
Scientific

  • Technician/Technologist
  • Social Worker
  • Sylviculturist (including Forestry Specialist)
Medical/Allied Professional
  • Dentist
  • Dietitian
  • Medical Laboratory Technologist (Canada)
  • Medical Technologist (Mexico and the United States)
  • Nutritionist
  • Occupational Therapist
  • Pharmacist
  • Physician (teaching or research only)
  • Physiotherapist/Physical Therapist
  • Psychologist
  • Recreational Therapist
  • Registered Nurse
  • Veterinarian
Scientists
  • Agriculturist (including Agronomist)
  • Animal Breeder
  • Animal Scientist
  • Apiculturist
  • Astronomer
  • Biochemist
  • Biologist
  • Chemist
  • Dairy Scientist
  • Entomologist
  • Epidemiologist
  • Geneticist
  • Geologist
  • Geochemist
  • Geophysicist (including Oceanographer in Mexico and the United States)
  • Horticulturist
  • Meteorologist
  • Pharmacologist
  • Physicist (including Oceanographer in Canada)
  • Plant Breeder
  • Poultry Scientist
  • Soil Scientist
  • Zoologist
Teachers
  • College
  • Seminary
  • University


The Canada/EU Free Trade Agreement will be signed sometime this year giving Europeans acess to Canadian jobs through the same permit process. While in Canada these permit workers are afforded full Canadian rights.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
No credibility west of extreme right wing loons?.. Is that the rough translation from those groups/lobbies that believes the state owes them a living at any cost?

Lemme guess, your solution is to tax the "rich", and by "rich", that means anyone that makes more than you, 'cause they owe it to you afterall.
Just the kind of rhetoric I would expect from you, captain. Keep up the good work.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Funny... That's almost the exact sentiment I felt reading your initial post... Congratulations to you are also in order Cliffy.

BTW - What is the weather like in your neck of the woods? If memory serves, you live in the BC interior (approx).
 

Omicron

Privy Council
Jul 28, 2010
1,694
3
38
Vancouver
This report & its conclusions surreal. Whoever was involved in it was either unhinged or inebriated to come with such farcical talking points.

Actually it's impressive.

Something must have changed there, because it's the first time since forever that I've seen the Fraser Institute make an objectively rational statement.

Normally what they do is rationalize, but in this case they actually used some facts.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
0
36
Edson, AB
No credibility west of extreme right wing loons?.. Is that the rough translation from those groups/lobbies that believes the state owes them a living at any cost?

Lemme guess, your solution is to tax the "rich", and by "rich", that means anyone that makes more than you, 'cause they owe it to you afterall.

No need to tax the rich at a higher level, just let them pay an equal percentage of their earnings. No loopholes, no deductions just the same 38% as someone with the median income. That includes sales taxes etc.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Funny... That's almost the exact sentiment I felt reading your initial post... Congratulations to you are also in order Cliffy.

BTW - What is the weather like in your neck of the woods? If memory serves, you live in the BC interior (approx).
West Kootenays. The weather is fine for motorcycle riding.

BTW - I'm officially an old fart and retired, well semi retired. I still give presentations to schools, libraries and social clubs concerning the prehistory of this area.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
118,621
14,563
113
Low Earth Orbit
Perhaps the end of the welfare state should begin with those 250,000 Canadians that feel society owes them a living.
That's what I'm getting at. If someone from Mexico is ambitious enough to come to Canada to pick veg or push a wheel barrow full of concrete and pay rent to live a grain bin then something is seriously wrong with the mindset of Canadians.

Load those up who have no excuse not to work on buses, ship them off to where labour is needed and get them building portable grain bins to live in on the first day. By noon they'd have a home to crash in come 5 bells.

They'll get skills and money but best of all callused hands to be proud of.

I say make something like Katimavik mandatory.