A Jewish woman explains about the Quran better than many muslims

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eanassir

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Dexter Sinister said:
I was most struck by something she said early on, about the nature of the language in the Quran, that it's like a poetic incantation that needs to be spoken aloud, felt rather than understood, and that the Quran is truly the Quran only in Arabic. On one level I understand that, I've read poetry in English that has a similar quality, but it also seems to me to mean that the full import of the Quran is available only to people who know Arabic, which in turn means the message will be forever unavailable to most people. Strikes me as a pretty ineffective way for a deity to send a message to humanity, from which I conclude that's not what it is.
Click to expand...

1- The Quran is in Arabic

The Quran was revealed in Arabic: the apostle was an Arab: his people were the Arab who spoke Arabic. Every apostle speaks the language of his people: how can he instruct them and how can they understand then?

This is in the Quran 41: 44
وَلَوْ جَعَلْنَاهُ قُرْآنًا أَعْجَمِيًّا لَّقَالُوا لَوْلَا فُصِّلَتْ آيَاتُهُ أَأَعْجَمِيٌّ وَعَرَبِيٌّ قُلْ هُوَ لِلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا هُدًى وَشِفَاء وَالَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ فِي آذَانِهِمْ وَقْرٌ وَهُوَ عَلَيْهِمْ عَمًى

The explanation:
(Had We appointed it a Quran in a foreign [language], they would have said: "Why are not its revelations expounded [in Arabic]?
How could [the Quran] be in a foreign [language], and [the messenger] be an Arab?"

Say [Mohammed, to them]: "[The Quran], to those who believe, is guidance and healing, [whereas] those who unbelieve have deafness in their ears, and it is blindness for them.)

And in the Quran 12: 2
إِنَّا أَنزَلْنَاهُ قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ

The explanation:
(We have revealed it, an Arabic Quran; haply you [people] may understand.)

2- The Quran is not poetry
The Quran is not poetry; it struck the Arab with its fluency and eloquence of language and they could not imitate it.
The Arab poetry is known to the Arab, but the Quran is something else.

As in the Quran 69: 40-43
إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ
وَمَا هُوَ بِقَوْلِ شَاعِرٍ قَلِيلًا مَا تُؤْمِنُونَ
وَلَا بِقَوْلِ كَاهِنٍ قَلِيلًا مَا تَذَكَّرُونَ
تَنزِيلٌ مِّن رَّبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ

The explanation:
(That the [Quran] is the speech of [Gabriel:] a messenger most honorable.

And it is not a speech of a poet [as you think]; but only a small number of you do believe [in God and His messenger.]

Nor is it the speech of a soothsayer [as you imagine]; but only a small number of you receive admonition [of the Quran.]

A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.

And if [Mohammed] had invented any words in Our name.

We would then have taken [the revelation] from him by force,

And We should then have discontinued for him the going-on [revelations.]

Nor could any of you [Meccans, even his comrades] withhold [Us] from him.

And the [Quran] is indeed an admonition to those who ward off [God's punishment.]

But surely We know that among you are some who deny [the afterlife and the Judgment.]

And the [Quran will cause] a regret for unbelievers [in the afterlife because they did not believe in it.]

And it is the very truth.

Then glorify the name of your Lord, the Most Great.)

And it is in the Quran 36: 69
وَمَا عَلَّمْنَاهُ الشِّعْرَ وَمَا يَنبَغِي لَهُ إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا ذِكْرٌ وَقُرْآنٌ مُّبِينٌ

The explanation:
(We have not taught [Mohammed] poetry; it is not even seemly for him [to learn it.]
This [revelation] is only an admonition and a manifest recitation [: lit.Quran.] )

3- The Quran is for all man-kind and genie-kind
At the start the message was directed to the tribe: the most close to the apostle in kindred, then to the people of Mecca and those round about it, then was to all Arabia then it became for all nations.
As God - be glorified - said in the Quran 34: 28
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا كَافَّةً لِّلنَّاسِ بَشِيرًا وَنَذِيرًا وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ

The explanation:
(We have sent you [Mohammed] only as a bearer of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind, but most people do not know [the truth.] )

Q:34


The plain and the ambiguous ayat of the Quran

The Quran was revealed in two categories of ayat: some of it are straightforward, understandable and clearly obvious.

The other category are the ambiguous ayat that are like puzzles and even the apostle himself did not give their meaning, but he answered: I don't know; it has been revealed to me as such; God only knows its implication and meaning, which will be told to you in the future.

Objection of the People of the Scripture to the Quran
 
Dexter Sinister

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My conclusion remains, it is not what you think it is, nor what it claims to be. It's nothing more nor less than the poetical ramblings of a 7th century mystic labouring under some serious delusions.
 
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eanassir

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As I said and was explained by the late interpreter: part of the Quran was ambiguous to people at the time of its revealing, and now because of the passing of time on the language, now a large portion of it is in fact ambiguous. This indicates the truthfulness of the apostle; because this ambiguity will be cleared and its meaning will be explained by the promised interpreter whose description is written in the prophetic traditions and in the Quran it is said that such ayat will be explained in the future.
http://www.quran-ayat.com/conflicts/index.htm

Then from the list of Contents, click on
Objection of the People of the Scripture to the Quran​

And here is another link:
http://www.quran-ayat.com/universe/index.htm
Then from the list of Contents, click on
The Awaited Mehdi
http://www.quran-ayat.com/universe/new_page_4.htm#Awaited_Mehdi


I don't know exactly about this woman; she may be as petros said; but what I say: is that whether she was sincere or hypocrite: she told things that some of them are correct. God only knows.
 
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eanassir

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The interpreter explained the meaning of the mysterious ayat

"God has fulfilled what He had promised; for He never breaks His promise. So He inspired into me [: i.e. the author of the book: Mohammed-Ali Hassan] the interpretation of the Quran, and I explained the meaning of the revelations of the Quran that are “similitudes”, [i.e. the mysterious signs of the Quranic revelations];

I explained them fully and clearly, so that by now there shouldn’t be any aya that anyone cannot understand its meaning, and there shouldn’t be any sign that they think to be an “abrogated” one, but on the contrary it should be clear to them that there isn’t any “abrogation” in the Quran, but all of it is unchangeable.

I called that book “ The True Interpretation of the Revelation”


These were the words of the late interpreter in the link that I gave in the previous post:
http://www.quran-ayat.com/conflicts/index.htm

Then from the list of Contents, click on
Objection of the people of the Scripture to the Quran

Levels of knowledge and faith

There are different levels of knowledge and faith: God gives His gifts like the guidance and knowledge with different degrees. He gives the wisdom to whomever He please, He gives the guidance to those who deserve it, and He does not guide wrong-doers: or those that do wrong or wrong others and wrong themselves.
So He let those whom He select to know Him and love Him.

Example: When Jesus was asked by a pharisee about the first commandment, he answered: The first commandment is that God is One God and you must not adore statues or idols or anything or any being.

Then He gave the other level of faith: You must love God with all your heart and all your mind...etc.

Moreover, once he gave a parable and explained that parable to people; but then when he was alone with his disciples, he gave them a deeper implication of that parable.

In the Quran:
This is very obvious: when we read the Quran, many levels of knowledge are discovered, ane when one reads the interpretation, he will find a wider scope of knowledge.

So some people (like this Jewish woman) say they make a tourism in the Quran, while the Quran is for admonition, contemplation and pondering.
 
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MHz

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While listening to her once again I was noticing that both the Quran and the Torah come with explanations of what the verses mean. That interpretation was provided by normal men (as far as being as close to God as any PT Prophet or NT Apostle. Judaism has the Talmud which also is an interpretation by men who are not equal in closeness to God. As wise as they may have been they can be wrong in their understanding, especially in terms of understanding prophecy that deals with events that are still in our future.

In the case of the vid she may or may not be right in terms of how the Quran and the Torah are meant to be read. As a Christian, I can reject what she says about the Bible totally because she is wrong in her assessment that the Bible is written exclusively to/from a man's pov (5:45). That is simply not true, John 11 and 12 have Martha and Mary as major characters. That Mary was also the beloved Disciple would end the debate right there.

1Jo.1:1
That which was from the beginning,
which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes,
which we have looked upon,
and our hands have handled,
of the Word of life;
1Jo.1:2
(For the life was manifested,
and we have seen it,
and bear witness,
and shew unto you that eternal life,
which was with the Father,
and was manifested unto us.
1Jo.1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you,
that ye also may have fellowship with us:
and truly our fellowship is with the Father,
and with his Son Jesus Christ.

2Jo.1:1-6
The elder unto the elect lady and her children,
whom I love in the truth;
and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
For the truth's sake,
which dwelleth in us,
and shall be with us for ever.
Grace be with you,
mercy,
and peace,
from God the Father,
and from the Lord Jesus Christ,
the Son of the Father,
in truth and love.
I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth,
as we have received a commandment from the Father.
And now I beseech thee,
lady,
not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee,
but that which we had from the beginning,
that we love one another.
And this is love,
that we walk after his commandments.
This is the commandment,
That,
as ye have heard from the beginning,
ye should walk in it.
 
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eanassir

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MHz said:
From what I got as a first impression is that it [the Quran] is a Book of Psalms for Gentiles (or at least written in the same way)
Click to expand...

The Psalms are the praying of God: the supplication of God: asking God in humble and submissive way. It is especially begging God secretly.

The Torah includes the Law, the story of the prophets and the Children of Israel.

The Gospel includes mainly the parables and the admonition.

The Quran includes all that and more:
The Quran includes the law, the admonition, the story of the prophets and their nations, and includes parables; moreover, the Quran includes the description of the afterlife, Paradise and Hell, the Judgment, the discourse of the people of Paradise and Hell; in addition to the ayat with the scientific implications about heavens and the earth, the mountains, the rain, the clouds, the plant and animal marvels ...etc etc.
The Quran tells about this life and about the afterlife details; the Quran tells about the details of Paradise and Hell, and the details of the Judgment and the words of people in the "gathering together" of the afterlife. And the Quran includes prayers and supplications. And more and more. ...
All the Quran, from the cover to the cover, is the inviting of people to the exclusive devotion to God alone. No patron other than God, no god other than God alone without equal or associate.

The Quran tells us that:
Jesus was only an apostle like the other past apostles before him; he carried out his duty and went to the neigborhood of his Lord.
And Mohammed was only an apostle like many apostles who passed away before him, while the worship is due to God alone.

God - be glorified - said in the Quran 5: 75
مَّا الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ إِلاَّ رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ

The explanation:
(The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger, messengers before him passed away [so why do you glorify him alone, excluding others?] )

And in the Quran 3: 144
وَمَا مُحَمَّدٌ إِلاَّ رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ

The explanation:
(Mohammed is but a messenger; messengers were passed away before him)


The Quran is for all nations from the Lord of all nations and worlds, and not for any nation other than others.
God created all people from a male and a female, the male proceeds from the female and the female proceeds from the male, and all of them proceeded from Adam, and the most honored among people is the most God-fearing among them.
As in the Quran 49: 13
{يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَى وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِندَ اللَّهِ أَتْقَاكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌ} (13) سورة الحجرات

The explanation:
( O mankind, We have created you male and female, and made you nations and tribes, that you may know one another.
Surely the noblest among you in the sight of God is the most godfearing of you.
God is All-knowing, All-aware.)

quran-ayat.co
 
MHz

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eanassir said:
The Gospel includes mainly the parables and the admonition.
Click to expand...
What an invitation for a reply. lol
Just the NT does all of what you describe below and more. The vid promotes a certain unity between Jews and Muslims (something I am entirely in favor of) with an almost casual discard of the Bible as an authoritative Book. (having false Christians running the show gives them a valid platform as far as listening to the 'explanation' of the NT that allows them to have a 'certain understanding' when our own Scriptures make them into liars with only one or two very short, easy to understand, references. For Jews and Muslims to place more faith in the words that 'explain things' to.for them. Jews don't accept the changes the NT brought in, odd in that it would make their journey into the Nations more comfortable for them. Peter was a Jew, he was given the vision about what was clean for him to eat before any Gentile came knocking. How many Jews accept that teaching and if they reject what does that do to thir relationship with God? Is God going to 'struggle' or just put them into a different that may/may not have dire consequences as far as being in the first group to be gathered into the Kingdom of God or the second group.
Above I was saying the vid was promoting that the Tanakh and the Quran shared some things in that they were understood in such a way that made them unable to be translated and they both needed an explanation to anybody not fully versed in the Native language. It would be very convenient at this point if both groups nodded in unison. Once the sequence of Revelation and then the rest of the text of the NT is taken into account the prophecies given in the OT were not meant to be understood by anybody but a NY reader/believer. If one or both groups want to use various example of events in the OT that 'appear' to be literal events are really quite similar to the parables stories of the NT (the first teaching in a parable is you should find the word parable there before it is to be considered to even be a parable. That prophetic condition only lasted till the cross. Visions were used in a few places, Peter and the sheet and the food was one such case, it was also fully explained on the spot. Nothing was hidden, the verses and passages do not need further explanation and if one is given it has to have some references, if it is true there will be references, if not some deflection will be offered. Calling a Jew a Scribe for a Christian is not taken kindly but they are way off base with the OT version of God. If He isn't very literal in it's best/worst way they have rights that are as real as any real place in Toontown.

The NT calls John the Baptist the greatest man that was ever born, however, that is less than the least in Heaven. Do you think the Apostles felt slighted, do you think John's Disciples felt slighted because they were not Apostles. How many of the OT Prophets that came out of the grave on the same morning that Jesus did felt slighted because the last Prophet called by God was considered greater than them even thought they all prophecised something about Jesus, the promised Messiah

eanassir said:
The Quran includes all that and more:
The Quran includes the law, the admonition, the story of the prophets and their nations, and includes parables; moreover, the Quran includes the description of the afterlife, Paradise and Hell, the Judgment, the discourse of the people of Paradise and Hell; in addition to the ayat with the scientific implications about heavens and the earth, the mountains, the rain, the clouds, the plant and animal marvels ...etc etc.
The Quran tells about this life and about the afterlife details; the Quran tells about the details of Paradise and Hell, and the details of the Judgment and the words of people in the "gathering together" of the afterlife. And the Quran includes prayers and supplications. And more and more. ...
All the Quran, from the cover to the cover, is the inviting of people to the exclusive devotion to God alone. No patron other than God, no god other than God alone without equal or associate.
Click to expand...
Devotion to God acco5rding to the NT starts with ending poverty, we have it down to only 25,000 children dieing needlessly each day, apparently there is still room for improvement.[/QUOTE]
Couldn't the word Quran in the above also be viewed as 'meaning', the (relative reference in the) Quran and the (relative) explanation.

eanassir said:
The Quran tells us that:
Jesus was only an apostle like the other past apostles before him; he carried out his duty and went to the neigborhood of his Lord.
And Mohammed was only an apostle like many apostles who passed away before him, while the worship is due to God alone.
Click to expand...
Is that the Quran or the explanation? No real punishment for making Jesus less that what He was other than deJoh:12:42: Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Joh:12:43: For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God diminishing the power and authority of His 'quotes'. All that does is remove some anchor point to accurate understanding of the prophecies.

Joh.12:42
Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him;
but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him,
lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Joh.12:43
For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
 
MHz

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Were you hoping everybody would read it, ....... throw up their hands and walk off mumbling and grumbling to themselves?

You would have to admit religious threads are few and far between on this site already so what is your goal, complete extinction?
 
taxslave

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Some people sure can spend a lot of time and energy to force others to believe in their favorite fairy tale. Religion was invented to keep the ignorant poor and in line and not annoy the ruling class. My god is better than your god is something thinking people should have outgrown by the time they are 10. Instead of murdering anyone that disagrees.
 
MHz

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taxslave said:
Instead of murdering anyone that disagrees.
Click to expand...
Got a chapter and verse from the NT that says that is what Christians are supposed to do. You could be a false Christian spreading lies, say one thing at would appear to be helpful and all it is meant to do is bring more devastation. Liars are not exclusive to any particular religion, Atheists can have a liar roaming around as easily as any of the 3 big religions.
 
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eanassir

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MHz, don't pay attention to the words of atheists: they are blind to see and deaf to hear the truth.

Anyhow, God had acquainted Jesus about the original Torah when he had been an angel in heaven, before he descended to the earth.
Who is Jesus Christ, and what is peculiar about him?

Then when he came to the earth from the neighborhood of his Lord, his Lord gave him the Gospel which included the parables and wisdom. So Jesus told people that he did not come to contradict the Law of God, i.e. the Torah.

This is in the Quran
{إِذْ قَالَ اللّهُ يَا عِيسى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ اذْكُرْ نِعْمَتِي عَلَيْكَ وَعَلَى وَالِدَتِكَ إِذْ أَيَّدتُّكَ بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ تُكَلِّمُ النَّاسَ فِي الْمَهْدِ وَكَهْلاً وَإِذْ عَلَّمْتُكَ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَالتَّوْرَاةَ وَالإِنجِيلَ } (110) سورة المائدة

Here, I have not the translation of the meaning as I wrote them in another windows.

The meaning of the aya in general: God reminds Jesus of many favors and blessings that He bestowed on him so that Jesus would be grateful to his Lord: God bestowed on him and his mother many favors and blessings: when He confirmed him with Gabriel the Holly Ghost, and when he spoke to people in the cradle to defend the honor of his mother, then when he became mature (?40 years) he spoke to people with religious instructions, and also that God taught him the scripture, the wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel.

And your question is whether this is in the Quran or in its explanation: yes, it is in the Quran and it is in its explanation.
 
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eanassir said:
then when he became mature (?40 years) ...
Click to expand...
How got the time wrong the? Or is the Bible just giving more detail?

Lu.3:23
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age,
being (as was supposed)
the son of Joseph,
which was the son of Heli,
 
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eanassir

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MHz said:
How got the time wrong the? Or is the Bible just giving more detail?

Lu.3:23
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age,
being (as was supposed)
the son of Joseph,
which was the son of Heli,
Click to expand...

Truly, I don't think the present Gospel s are very precisely correct, but many distortions, additions and ommissions had been done because of many factors including the translation.

While the word (كهلاً) may mean 40 years; I am not sure, I should refer to the interpretation of the late interpreter.

Now I have a good dictionary: it means according to this dictionary: of mature age or middle age; but the interpretation will give better explanation.

Now I have seen in the interpretation that he did not say about the word كهلاً but only he said that when he was كهلاً he talked to people with religious information. I don't know, but about Jesus it was something peculiar: because the apostles are usually sent at 40 years of age, but the mession of Jesus was quicker and may be shorter and might have started earleire: I don't know exactly.
 
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