"You Should Have Stayed At Home" - G20 Police Actions/Brutality

[Unforgiven]

I think the next G-20 should be held in Quebec; perferably in one of the historical landmarks

If we decided that there need not be a huge expensive junket paid for by tax payers, then all these meetings could be done online. Video conferencing, smaller groups linked through technology, hand out Ipads loaded with presentation materials, more could be done without all the expense and need for hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on cops who can't control themselves.

While I suppose there is some need for this group to meet, it could be done much better and cutting the lavish spending to impress while getting the work done should be what we as the public ask for. I see no need to threaten historical landmarks.

 

[Trotz]

If we decided that there need not be a huge expensive junket paid for by tax payers, then all these meetings could be done online. Video conferencing, smaller groups linked through technology, hand out Ipads loaded with presentation materials, more could be done without all the expense and need for hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on cops who can't control themselves.

While I suppose there is some need for this group to meet, it could be done much better and cutting the lavish spending to impress while getting the work done should be what we as the public ask for. I see no need to threaten historical landmarks.

You assume that a technological revolution will change the status quo but it is simply not true and we need a social revolution. I've had business partners sign off $500 meals; at the most expensive restaurants in Vancouver, and the corporation had picked up the tab and transferred the expense onto the consumer. The same is true in the political world and with the G20 Conference. In provincial politics, you only have to be in office for four years and you get a pension income larger than most working class families.

Our society has fallen into the trap of Liberal Corporatism; people here have been brainwashed into the belief that "big government = good" because big government provides them with a meager social net in return for consuming 95% of the resources of the state. We have 30 million people in Canada with a country greater in size than Western Europe and more plentiful in resources and yet we have double digit unemployment (when the statistic isn't skewed) and people can no longer afford starter homes and tutition continues to skyrocket and people pretend to ignore how China is able to pull off a growth rate of 6% while the West is slipping into an abyss.

Maybe 2012 will be the year when the Middle East protests will spread to Canada.

 

[TenPenny]

Who the hell told you that? You need to watch out for people like that because I can tell you man they are your enemy.

I don't know how you can think that this in some way boosted the economy. Downtown Toronto which does a tidy trade every day, was closed for three days. There was no tourism, there was no night life. People were told not to go downtown. Even people who live here left town for the weekend.

Okay, stop ranting for a moment.

If I understand what you're trying to say, you're now going to claim that the G20 didn't cost any more to host, than what tourists would spend in Toronto in a typical week?

If I follow your reasoning, there were no hotels booked up by delegations, police, press, etc? No food was purchased, no security services spent money in Toronto,no cars were rented, no gasoline purchased? Nobody involved in the conference or protests spent any money on anything?

This magical G20 summit happened without spending any money? Wow, that's quite different from what people are claiming.

 

[Unforgiven]

You assume that a technological revolution will change the status quo but it is simply not true and we need a social revolution. I've had business partners sign off $500 meals; at the most expensive restaurants in Vancouver, and the corporation had picked up the tab and transferred the expense onto the consumer. The same is true in the political world and with the G20 Conference. In provincial politics, you only have to be in office for four years and you get a pension income larger than most working class families.

Our society has fallen into the trap of Liberal Corporatism; people here have been brainwashed into the belief that "big government = good" because big government provides them with a meager social net in return for consuming 95% of the resources of the state. We have 30 million people in Canada with a country greater in size than Western Europe and more plentiful in resources and yet we have double digit unemployment (when the statistic isn't skewed) and people can no longer afford starter homes and tutition continues to skyrocket and people pretend to ignore how China is able to pull off a growth rate of 6% while the West is slipping into an abyss.

Maybe 2012 will be the year when the Middle East protests will spread to Canada.

We get only what we demand. If it's going to be accepted that pork barreling is going to happen then a politician is going to do it. If during an election the point is raised that G20 meetings need to be done over the Internet and never in a city like Toronto where it can become a huge problem then that is what will happen. If we sit around and argue about being apathetic about it or not, well we're lost anyway. We aren't so stupid that the only way we can make change happen is violence. But we can't make anything change by grousing about it on the Internet to people who don't much care anyway.

I was at Queen's Park when the Bulls started to roll. I know exactly what happened there though I wasn't caught up in any of it. It was wrong and should not have happened. Further, when someone tells you their Charter rights have been violated, you should speak up as well to put an end to it. If you don't want to step up for anyone, don't expect anyone to be left to step up for you.

 

[Trotz]

True.
I've never seen more than a hundred people at a protest for sustainable housing in Vancouver. Most people seem content with signing off a 30/40 year mortage for a condo in the West End.

Then again the same was said for Egypt until the recent protests. Something *major* would have to happen in Canada before people act a cohesive unit for their own good.

 

[Colpy]

Unforgiven;1388687 We get only what we demand. If it's going to be accepted that pork barreling is going to happen then a politician is going to do it. If during an election the point is raised that G20 meetings need to be done over the Internet and never in a city like Toronto where it can become a huge problem then that is what will happen. If we sit around and argue about being apathetic about it or not, well we're lost anyway. We aren't so stupid that the only way we can make change happen is violence. But we can't make anything change by grousing about it on the Internet to people who don't much care anyway.

I'm not so sure about this....I do think face-to-face is important.

As for method of change....I keep harping on it (pun not intended!)....GET INVOLVED....join a party, form a party, vote, donate......whatever it takes.

I was at Queen's Park when the Bulls started to roll. I know exactly what happened there though I wasn't caught up in any of it. It was wrong and should not have happened. Further, when someone tells you their Charter rights have been violated, you should speak up as well to put an end to it. If you don't want to step up for anyone, don't expect anyone to be left to step up for you.

I agree without reservation with this part.

The laws put in place (enacted) before the G20 were beyond the pale, far beyond it. People have the right to protest........and if visiting dignitaries can't stomach the sight of people exercising their rights, they should stay out of free countries.

There, of course, needs to be a strong security presence.......and certainly one could not allow vehicle traffic close to foreign dignitaries, the risk of car bombs is to great........as well, I see no problem with controlled access points to the block where conferences are taking place, as long as access is allowed (WITHOUT unreasonable search)....just under the watchful eye of security forces.

When a disturbance starts with violence and property damage....THEN the police need to react with overwhelming force......a quick order to clear the area, them move in with riot police, pepper spray, and batons....arrest anyone masked, as well as anyone breaking other laws, and kick ass if need be......and yes, people will get hurt. Make it VERY clear any such behaviour will be immediately and severely put down.

I understand that allowing people into close proximity (relatively) with the targets of protests is somewhat risky.....and may expose the leaders present to some small danger, and even to insulting opinions (the horror!) but so what?

If they feel so frightened, so cowardly....stay home.

 

[DaSleeper]

I find it hard to feel sorry for a bunch of holligans wearing masks burning a car and breaking shop windows, when the left doesn't see anything wrong with a man defending his property and possibly his life being arrested by the police and having to spend money to defend himself in court for doing it.
Nuff said...

 

[Colpy]

I find it hard to feel sorry for a bunch of holligans wearing masks burning a car and breaking shop windows, when the left doesn't see anything wrong with a man defending his property and possibly his life being arrested by the police and having to spend money to defend himself in court for doing it.
Nuff said...

I agree....

Unfortunately, the police stood by and watched the people smashing windows and burning cars for fear someone might get hurt!!!!! (I would be more wary of the idea that the perpetrators might NOT get hurt).....and arrested people peacefully protesting, because that was "safe" for all involved.

Both instances are a severe miscarriage of justice. And both indicate EXACTLY the same mindset. Violence is not to be permitted on the actual perpetrators of destruction, as someone might get hurt.

However, people engaged in exercising their rights are legitimate targets, as no risk is involved.

Welcome to the end of independent action, the end of freedom....indeed, the sunset of sanity in society.

 

[Unforgiven]

Okay, stop ranting for a moment.

If I understand what you're trying to say, you're now going to claim that the G20 didn't cost any more to host, than what tourists would spend in Toronto in a typical week?

The g20 simmit cost a billion dollars in Toronto. In the two other cities where it was hosted just before Toronto it cost 12.2 million in Pittsburgh and in London it was 30 million. So yeah typically Toronto would get more from tourism than what it should cost to host the G20 summit. This was a major hosing for the Canadian tax payers. So not only did Toronto lose out on that tourist money, but everyone else in Canada is on the hook for the cost of it.

If I follow your reasoning, there were no hotels booked up by delegations, police, press, etc? No food was purchased, no security services spent money in Toronto,no cars were rented, no gasoline purchased? Nobody involved in the conference or protests spent any money on anything?

Do you think the people of Toronto got any of that money? Clearly you don't understand Toronto. Hotels are booked anyway, Cars and gas is bought anyway. Do you think any of this was paid for by someone other than a tax payer? Do you think there was one single delegate or journalist that reached into their own pocket to pay for something?

Do you think when our own politicians go abroad, on Canadian business, they pay for it themselves? People have the nerve to complain about welfare cheats getting a couple hundred bucks under the table each month? :roll:

This magical G20 summit happened without spending any money? Wow, that's quite different from what people are claiming.

You seem to be under the impression that there was some huge spending spree going on in Toronto. The downtown core was locked down, no transit in or out, nothing open. You're pretty out of touch on this.

I find it hard to feel sorry for a bunch of holligans wearing masks burning a car and breaking shop windows, when the left doesn't see anything wrong with a man defending his property and possibly his life being arrested by the police and having to spend money to defend himself in court for doing it.
Nuff said...

And so you shouldn't. The police never laid a finger on them. The police stood by and watched as masked vandals wrecked havok on Saturday. Instead police arrested students sleeping in their dorm rooms, attacked and beat peaceful protesters who didn't cause a single bit of damage to anything. Over 1000 charges laid have been dropped so far. Doesn't that even register?

The two aren't even close to the same thing DaS and either you know that and want to stir things up or you're three minutes of watching Fox News didn't give you quite the whole story on the G20.

 

[TenPenny]

The g20 simmit cost a billion dollars in Toronto. In the two other cities where it was hosted just before Toronto it cost 12.2 million in Pittsburgh and in London it was 30 million. So yeah typically Toronto would get more from tourism than what it should cost to host the G20 summit. This was a major hosing for the Canadian tax payers. So not only did Toronto lose out on that tourist money, but everyone else in Canada is on the hook for the cost of it.



Do you think the people of Toronto got any of that money? Clearly you don't understand Toronto. Hotels are booked anyway, Cars and gas is bought anyway. Do you think any of this was paid for by someone other than a tax payer? Do you think there was one single delegate or journalist that reached into their own pocket to pay for something?

Do you think when our own politicians go abroad, on Canadian business, they pay for it themselves? People have the nerve to complain about welfare cheats getting a couple hundred bucks under the table each month? :roll:



You seem to be under the impression that there was some huge spending spree going on in Toronto. The downtown core was locked down, no transit in or out, nothing open. You're pretty out of touch on this.

Okay, so none of the $1billion spent on the summit was spent in Toronto. I see your point now.

 

[DaSleeper]

I agree....

Unfortunately, the police stood by and watched the people smashing windows and burning cars for fear someone might get hurt!!!!! (I would be more wary of the idea that the perpetrators might NOT get hurt).....and arrested people peacefully protesting, because that was "safe" for all involved.

Both instances are a severe miscarriage of justice. And both indicate EXACTLY the same mindset. Violence is not to be permitted on the actual perpetrators of destruction, as someone might get hurt.

However, people engaged in exercising their rights are legitimate targets, as no risk is involved.

Welcome to the end of independent action, the end of freedom....indeed, the sunset of sanity in society.

Right on...What I got from a local officer who was there, was that the oders were; not to engage, unless someone's life was in danger, and just observe.....then once the higher-ups saw the carnage with the car on fire, then broad sweeps were ordered and the ordinary protesters were filtered out after the video evidence was reviewed and those trouble makers from other countries are now on a special list ( like the one that tried to kill a State Governor).....

 

[mentalfloss]

Yea, the cops definitely had to bear the greater responsibility here. But douchebags like officer bubbles set the standard, and now the egg is on the face of the police force as more evidence is revealing that they were often acting unreasonably.

 

[YaYiP]

HAHAAHAHAH... "If the bubble touches me, you're going to be arrested for assault!"

I hope this guys doesn't have kids...

0:23 ... even the chic cop beside him wants to laugh at first

He should be real proud. Probably got promoted.

The officer:

A. Josephs, Toronto Police Services

 

[petros]

I think ramming secret legislation through with bogus arrests is a great thing for Canada.

 

[YaYiP]

Way of the future my friend

And why not? No one cares. And those who do, do not make enough noice.

Our current society is set up to keep us to busy trying to pay bills and to tired to care afterwards to do anything but be destracted by the entertainment industry. Think sports, TV, internet, games, shopping, basically all the activities pop culture offers...

"Look at my left hand, while my right hand picks your pocket"