So what does happen when you die?

[darkbeaver]

Again, typical. That's simply false, and repeating it endlessly doesn't make it true. If it were true, the electric cosmos theory would be the scientific orthodoxy; it's not because it doesn't work. It's been obvious almost from the beginning what your problem is. You're fairly bright, but anybody who thinks Velikovsky was right is both scientifically illiterate and lacks critical thinking skills.

Look at the orthodoxy of the other human institutions Dexter, are you going to insist that the orthodox cannot be dictated by other than fact? Are you going to go further still and propose that science alone has circumvented the manipulations of the market, when it's plain that every human institution has been thoroughly co opted by money and the requirments of the market? Well are you? Will you invoke the exception for science? You are not well enough equipped intellectually to criticize Velikovsky, you are barely able to criticize me for that matter, and I'm scientifically illiterate!

So you're an orthodox critical thinker Dexter, how's that work?

Why don't you petition Pope Hawkings for a special dispensation?

When I die I will go to the next level you however will be required to repeat the first term. Repent now and ye will be saved.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

... are you going to insist that the orthodox cannot be dictated by other than fact..

In science, yes. Unscientific orthodoxies, like religions and philosophies, tend not to have many facts, they rely on things like custom, authority, speculation, and undemonstrable assertions, but in science the evidence trumps everything, and there are well-tested, widely known, reliable methods for finding and presenting it. You electric cosmos people and Velikovsky fans don't know what they are or how to use them. You think you've found a new paradigm, but you haven't made the case so the scientific establishment rightly rejects it. Learn how to do science instead of just talking about it and you'll be taken seriously.

 

[#juan]

There was a topic a while ago about this sort of thing. I thought it was a blast.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/science-environment/81157-immanuel-velikovsky-scientist-twit.html

 

[petros]

In science, yes. Unscientific orthodoxies, like religions and philosophies, tend not to have many facts, they rely on things like custom, authority, speculation, and undemonstrable assertions, but in science the evidence trumps everything, and there are well-tested, widely known, reliable methods for finding and presenting it. You electric cosmos people and Velikovsky fans don't know what they are or how to use them. You think you've found a new paradigm, but you haven't made the case so the scientific establishment rightly rejects it. Learn how to do science instead of just talking about it and you'll be taken seriously.

So where does all the electro-magnetism in the universe come from? Pop Tarts?

 

[darkbeaver]

In science, yes. Unscientific orthodoxies, like religions and philosophies, tend not to have many facts, they rely on things like custom, authority, speculation, and undemonstrable assertions, but in science the evidence trumps everything, and there are well-tested, widely known, reliable methods for finding and presenting it. You electric cosmos people and Velikovsky fans don't know what they are or how to use them. You think you've found a new paradigm, but you haven't made the case so the scientific establishment rightly rejects it. Learn how to do science instead of just talking about it and you'll be taken seriously.

I find it revealing that you have used the word orthodoxy and establishment twice in the same day in reference to the tool of science.
You claim to be a critical thinker but you look like the inquisition to me. Since when has the orthodox encouraged critical thought and when has the establishment embraced revolutionary ideas? You are a burner of heretics Mr Sinister. Your posting indicates that you have taken me seriously for a few years dosn't it? Or do you enjoy devoting time to argument with the scientifically illiterate. There must be a scientific reason of course. I think you're frightened near to death by the electromagnetic facts. The scientific establishment has a long and rich history of rejecting the truth.Evidence does trump everything. Excepting comets for instance. The establishment refuses to admit the evidence and the evidence is literally solid rock. What's that about do you suppose? Address the comets, I want to see the proof for giant snowballs?

There was a topic a while ago about this sort of thing. I thought it was a blast.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/science-environment/81157-immanuel-velikovsky-scientist-twit.html

And it was a blast, let's do it again. It,ll get us out of the death thread which is being drowned by Dexters religious thinking.

 

[Unforgiven]

Break it down into two categories. One that can be observed and the other than must be imagined.

When you die, there are many things that can be observed. This is what happens when you die. Confirmation comes from observing this repeatedly over many deaths. One can say, this is what happens when you die.

What can be imagined is all the rest of this stuff you guys are talking about. Going somewhere, a continuance of some sort, being with God if you want. Not once has it been observed. Only imagined. If that is what you want to focus on, more power to you. But you can't for a moment step away from the fact that anyone else at best can only take your word for it.

Isn't that all that this argument is about?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Since when has the orthodox encouraged critical thought and when has the establishment embraced revolutionary ideas?

Well, we could talk about how the theories of continental drift and plate tectonics came to be accepted, or the Alvarez hypothesis about the Cretaceous extinction event, or the replacement of ancient Greek notions of absolutes with Galilean ideas of relativity (much resisted by religious orthodoxy at the time), or the replacement of Newtonian ideas about space and time with Einstein's, or evolution by natural selection, or quantum field theory, or... need I go on? It's in the nature of science to embrace revolutionary ideas once the case has been properly made.

 

[vedicboy]

Aren't you just a "temple of knowledge"? Guess we are always surrounded by those who can evaluate others! :lol:

Looks like you have finally discovered yourself! ;-)

 

[ironsides]

What happens if man becomes immortal??

2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

On Feb. 15, 1965, a diffident but self-possessed high school student named Raymond Kurzweil appeared as a guest on a game show called I've Got a Secret. He was introduced by the host, Steve Allen, then he played a short musical composition on a piano. The idea was that Kurzweil was hiding an unusual fact and the panelists — they included a comedian and a former Miss America — had to guess what it was.


Kurzweil then demonstrated the computer, which he built himself — a desk-size affair with loudly clacking relays, hooked up to a typewriter. The panelists were pretty blasé about it; they were more impressed by Kurzweil's age than by anything he'd actually done. They were ready to move on to Mrs. Chester Loney of Rough and Ready, Calif., whose secret was that she'd been President Lyndon Johnson's first-grade teacher.

Singularity: Kurzweil on 2045, When Humans, Machines Merge -- Printout -- TIME

 

[Corduroy]

When I die I suspect my loved ones will be sad for a while, some will keep my picture up for the rest of their lives, then they will slowly die off themselves and I'll likely be forgotten. Possibly a few descendants of mine will slot me into a family tree, bring it out at family gatherings and point out "this is great great great grandmother Corduroy, she lived in Canada, which back then was an independent country." Then slowly over the generations, I'll just be an unremarked on spot in that tree until one day the sun explodes.

 

[talloola]

all living things on this earth 'die' and are reduced to bones by either the environment or other
animals who need nourishment, seems a very natural happening.

Then why do 'we', the human take on such an arrogance to 'believe' such rubbish as going on to another
life, or going to heaven or hell, what silliness. We are exactly the same as all the other living
things on this earth, live and die the same, and if we didn't package each other up in boxes or
cremate each other, we would come to the same end as they do.

I am not afraid of this common sense ending to my life, and I will not cling to some ridiculous
fairy tale of going somewhere else after death, I will stay here with all of my animal friends and
birds etc., and go back into the earth where I came from to begin with.

 

[gerryh]

I am not afraid of this common sense ending to my life, and I will not cling to some ridiculous
fairy tale of going somewhere else after death, I will stay here with all of my animal friends and
birds etc., and go back into the earth where I came from to begin with.

ROFLMFAO.... hmmmmmm... I was the product of the joining of an ovum from my mother and a sperm from my father. No "earth" was involved in the beginning of my life. Unless you are referring to the biblical reference of "dust to dust" which you have repeatedly said you don't believe in.

Wassa matta talloola, can't keep your beliefs straight?

 

[JLM]

all living things on this earth 'die' and are reduced to bones by either the environment or other
animals who need nourishment, seems a very natural happening.

Then why do 'we', the human take on such an arrogance to 'believe' such rubbish as going on to another
life, or going to heaven or hell, what silliness. We are exactly the same as all the other living
things on this earth, live and die the same, and if we didn't package each other up in boxes or
cremate each other, we would come to the same end as they do.

I am not afraid of this common sense ending to my life, and I will not cling to some ridiculous
fairy tale of going somewhere else after death, I will stay here with all of my animal friends and
birds etc., and go back into the earth where I came from to begin with.

That is true with the body (crate) Talloola, but not necessarily the soul.

 

[talloola]

That is true with the body (crate) Talloola, but not necessarily the soul.

I have no belief in any soul, that is strictly for the religious.
Unless of course we are talking about a sole.

ROFLMFAO.... hmmmmmm... I was the product of the joining of an ovum from my mother and a sperm from my father. No "earth" was involved in the beginning of my life. Unless you are referring to the biblical reference of "dust to dust" which you have repeatedly said you don't believe in.

Wassa matta talloola, can't keep your beliefs straight?

I have my head on very straight thank you, no twisting of words by you will change anything.
It is quite clear what I meant.

 

[gerryh]

I have my head on very straight thank you, no twisting of words by you will change anything.
It is quite clear what I meant.

There was no twisting. You said returning to dust where you came from. Freudian slip perhaps?

 

[talloola]

There was no twisting. You said returning to dust where you came from. Freudian slip perhaps?

I guess that is what you would like to think, but sorry to dissapoint, no such thing in this
girl.
I couldn't make a freudian slip if I tried, but it's easy to use words to play with isn't it.
Go ahead have fun, I'll even join in, i'm game.

 

[Cliffy]

Physicist Finds Out Why "We Are Stardust..."

ScienceDaily (June 25, 1999) — When Joni Mitchell, in her song "Woodstock," sang, "We are stardust..." she was being factual as well as poetic. Every element on earth, except for the lightest, was created in the heart of some massive star.

And the heaviest elements -- such as gold, lead and uranium -- were produced in a supernova explosion during the cataclysmic end of a huge star's life, says LSU physicist Edward Zganjar (pronounced Skyner).

"Those elements were ejected into space by the force of the massive explosion, where they mixed with other matter and formed new stars, some with planets such as earth. That's why the earth is rich in these heavy elements. The iron in our blood and the calcium in our bones were all forged in such stars. We are made of stardust," Zganjar said.

YouTube - Joni Mitchell - Woodstock (Big Sur, CA 1969)

 

[Corduroy]

You could easily argue that human beings came from the earth. The plants we eat and the plants animals that we eat eat draw nutrients from the earth. The elements that make up our bodies are the elements that make up the Earth, and life has been using these elements for billions of years. Compounded use by animal life and plant life, growing, flourishing, decomposing and being used again, makes us very much made of the earth (and let's not forget though a significant portion from the sun).

 

[talloola]

You could easily argue that human beings came from the earth. The plants we eat and the plants animals that we eat eat draw nutrients from the earth. The elements that make up our bodies are the elements that make up the Earth, and life has been using these elements for billions of years. Compounded use by animal life and plant life, growing, flourishing, decomposing and being used again, makes us very much made of the earth (and let's not forget though a significant portion from the sun).

sure makes sense to me. I am a child of the earth, the earth comforts me, keeps me alive,
feeds me, the sun warms me, the water is our very life, I need nothing else to complete my
sense of support and care, and I don't believe in anything other than our earth as our
beginning and end, makes me feel right at home, and happy.

I know that all of my ancestors are part of the earth again, and someday I will also be there
again, life is wonderful but doesn't last forever, and one has face that fact, and know where
and what happens to them after death, and I am happy to know I will rest in our earth forever after,
and my body will nourish the earth.

 

[The Old Medic]

Nobody know for certain. Those with faith, believe that your soul lives on. But even with faith, we don't know for certain. We won't know, until we die.