A National Shame?
- Thread starter Joffen
- Start date
It sure is easy to be a horrible person to complete strangers online, huh Gerry? Never mind that we are all people with real lives and thoughts and feelings. But that's ok, we're all anonymous online...
'' Never mind that we are all people with real lives and thoughts and feelings.''
Doesn't seem to be a problem for the right wingers who allow their fellow citizens to die even though so many of them paid their share of taxes and made their contributions to society's good during their lives.
Doesn't seem to be a problem for the right wingers who allow their fellow citizens to die even though so many of them paid their share of taxes and made their contributions to society's good during their lives.
I have yet to see a single Canadian say that our health care couldn't use improvement. People die. Medicine is not an exact art. You can point out all the articles about ways it failed people you want, there are identical articles about the way a private system fails people. The fact of the matter is, both systems have flaws, and a blend is the only way for a coutnry to function well.
If you live in the US, why would you care if Canada was socialist? What has it got to do with you? If the US system is so good and Canada's so bad, why does Canada come in ahead of the US in world standings in health care? I think you have been listening to idiots like Glen Beck and the teabaggers and are incapable of looking at the evidence and coming to your own conclusions. There is no evidence to support your assertions and plenty of personal stories on here to refute them. Grab a clue and admit you haven't got one.
ahhhhhh....did I hurt your itty bitty feelings? poor baby..... as for anonymous, I use my real name, how about you?
Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics. Anyone can cite some bs statistic and use it to further their agenda. It works very well on the gullible. Read the study. Have you ever read a flawed study? "Unmeasured characteristics (i.e., that individuals who place less value on health eschew both health insurance and healthy behaviors) might offer an alternative explanation for our findings." - Cambridge Health Alliance
The results did not differentiate between those who don't have health insurance because they can't afford it and those who can afford insurance but choose not to buy it, often because they are the young 'invincibles,' who aren't concerned about health care -- whether it's a government-run plan or private insurance -- or the wealthy, who, presumably, consider themselves self-insured.
Joffen, we in Canada got along without you long before you arrived and we will do so long after
you get bored being a troll. I don't hate America either, but I want to see the United States join
the rest of the modern world when it comes to the well being of people. In this country we are a
mixture of capitalism and Social Democracy. You can be angry about what ever you want after all
you don't have to live here. We are sometimes not happy with how things go in this country either.
Unlike our neighbours to the south we find a solution. it takes longer than we sometimes like but
we do find a solution.
In Canada I have the pleasure of having friends who are socialists, conservatives, liberals and even
one outright communist. The difference is I don't force them into a labeled box where they only have
one dimensional views. I can actually have a discussion and sometimes we find we have more in
common than we sometimes think. For example, I have many sympathies with Social Democratic
ideas. Not all but many I also have some of the more Liberal sympathies and when it comes to
financing these plans and schemes of our ongoing society, I am more conservative than most of
the conservatives I know. It is not the plan or the ideal the program is intending to serve, it is all
about how is it going to be paid for now just in the short term but say fifteen years down the road.
From the message I get from you joffen is you are deathly afraid of what you do not understand
and the climate of fear being fostered by both the left and the right in America has bent the view
of almost everything until everyone is in fear of any change for the sake of being afraid. At first I was
a little annoyed with you attitude because you are so ill informed. After watching the interaction on
this thread I actually feel sorry for you and for the black eye you give the conservative philosophy
you claim to represent.
you get bored being a troll. I don't hate America either, but I want to see the United States join
the rest of the modern world when it comes to the well being of people. In this country we are a
mixture of capitalism and Social Democracy. You can be angry about what ever you want after all
you don't have to live here. We are sometimes not happy with how things go in this country either.
Unlike our neighbours to the south we find a solution. it takes longer than we sometimes like but
we do find a solution.
In Canada I have the pleasure of having friends who are socialists, conservatives, liberals and even
one outright communist. The difference is I don't force them into a labeled box where they only have
one dimensional views. I can actually have a discussion and sometimes we find we have more in
common than we sometimes think. For example, I have many sympathies with Social Democratic
ideas. Not all but many I also have some of the more Liberal sympathies and when it comes to
financing these plans and schemes of our ongoing society, I am more conservative than most of
the conservatives I know. It is not the plan or the ideal the program is intending to serve, it is all
about how is it going to be paid for now just in the short term but say fifteen years down the road.
From the message I get from you joffen is you are deathly afraid of what you do not understand
and the climate of fear being fostered by both the left and the right in America has bent the view
of almost everything until everyone is in fear of any change for the sake of being afraid. At first I was
a little annoyed with you attitude because you are so ill informed. After watching the interaction on
this thread I actually feel sorry for you and for the black eye you give the conservative philosophy
you claim to represent.
Your sympathy is unnecessary. You claim I am ill-informed. Please explain what, exactly, I am supposedly ill-informed about. It's nice to hide behind thoughts like, "this guy doesn't know what he's talking about", but I am armed with pretty damning facts about the dangers of socialism and government's role in health care. One person claimed that 45,000 Americans die due to lack of health insurance. I called his bluff. Now I am calling your bluff. What am I supposedly wrong about?
My sentiments exactly and you said it better than I could have. I get so sick and tired of political labels- most of us just try to do things right or at least work in a direction so that things turn out right. A lot of times it's just a matter of continuous fine tuning. As for health care, if we want it, it has to be paid for in one of a dozen different ways of going about it, ultimately WE pay for it.
Time for beddy bye Joffen. :lol:
I challenge any of you Canadians to show me how your government-run health care system is better than ours. If you use some b.s. study I will call you on it. The facts are undeniable and on my side.
Uh, yeah. I did call his bluff, Gertrude. Are you so stupid as to fall for a politically-motivated study? Hmm...I think I just answered my own question.
Uh, yeah. I did call his bluff, Gertrude. Are you so stupid as to fall for a politically-motivated study? Hmm...I think I just answered my own question.
Hey dummy, we don't need to prove anything. It's you talking trash about Canada. You do the proving. Which you can't.
oh ya, and don't bother using any right wing BS studies. They aren't worth shyte. ROFLMAO
I'm talking about Canada's health care system, so I guess I am "trash-talking". And if you're too stupid to see how bad you've got it, I feel sorry for you Gertrude.
CANADA'S HEALTH CARE SYSTEM -- POOR VALUE FOR YOUR TAX DOLLARS
Canada's taxpayers are not receiving the same sort of value that their counterparts in other nations are when it comes to universally accessible health care insurance, says Nadeem Esmail, of the Fraser Institute.
For example:
Canada has the third most-expensive universal access health insurance system; only Iceland and Switzerland spend more as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) on their universal access health insurance systems than Canada did.
In 2007, waiting lists for access to health care in Canada reached a new all-time high of 18.3 weeks from a general practitioner referral to treatment by a specialist; this wait time is 54 percent longer than the overall wait time of 11.9 weeks back in 1997.
The number of Canadians without a regular physician is estimated to be around 5 million.
The journal "Health Affairs" recently published a study of six universal access nations, which found:
Canadians were more likely to experience waiting times of more than six months for elective surgery than Australians, German, the Dutch, and New Zealanders, but slightly less likely than patients in the United Kingdom.
Canadians were least likely to wait less than one month for elective surgery.
Canadians were the most likely to wait six days or longer to see a doctor when ill, and were least likely to receive an appointment the same day or the next day.
Access to medical technologies is also relatively poor in Canada:
Canada ranked 13th of 24 nations in terms of MRI machines per million population.
Canada ranked 18th of 24 nations for CT scanners per million population, 7th of 17 for mammographs per million population, and tied for second to last among 20 nations for lithotripters per million population.
Source: Nadeem Esmail, "Canada's Health Care System- Poor Value for Your Tax Dollars," Fraser Institute, June 2008.
Hmm, since when did the Fraser Institute become a right-wing organization?
yup, Fraser institute, not worth shyte...try again...... see, I can do that too....lol
any thing else gomer?
Aaa... who is falling for politically motivated studies? Do you really think the teabaggers are not politically motivated? Just because a study is done by the right wing lunatic fringe does not make it the truth. It is just as much a propaganda piece as a left wing one.
I have been poisoned twice, had two heart attacks, been hit by a logging truck, wrapped a car around a power pole and had congestive heart failure and have never had to wait for medical services. I'm afraid you are blowing hot air out an orifice that never sees any light.
So the Fraser Institute is a right-wing organization in cahoots with the tea party to make Canada's health care system look bad. You need more tinfoil, I think the radio waves are making you stupid.
Joffen;Access to medical technologies is also relatively poor in Canada: [B said:
The goal shouldn't be tied to the number of machines and scanners required, the goal should be for every Canadian to work toward a level of health where we don't need these god damned gadgets.
Duh! When was it not? Well I will give you that is not as right wing as even the democrats in the US but in Canada, it is about as far right of center as any organization. Gosh, even our PM looks lefty to Yanks and he is a Dubbya wannabe.
JLM I think the Canadian mood is, is that we want it and we will find ways of paying for it.
The problem is people like our American friend have no idea how this country works and the
will of the people. They don't know other things about the world either. Take Ms Clinton, she
chastised China as a founding member of the UN to do more about human rights in China.
To start with, China was not a founding member of the UN. The China that founded the UN
was indeed Taiwan, not Mainland China at all. In fact The Peoples Republic of China did
not become the legitimate member of the UN until, I think about 1971.
Why is it that so many Americans see the rest of the world through their own eyes, and if it
does not measure up to their standard then the rest of the world is wrong. To be sure there
is a lot to criticize in other parts of the world, but to me the real national shame, is that the
people of America have millions of people who have no health coverage they can afford and
that segment of society lives in conditions often lower than that of the poverty in other parts
of the world.
Even in the midst, of wealth, many of the worlds citizens are condemned by their own ignorance
spurred on by feelings of superiority. I was asked by joffen what he was ill informed about and
my only answer for him is he is ill informed about life in general as it exists outside of his own
narrow view of the planet. Only the slow downward spiral of his own universe will help him to
wake up. Unfortunately we to some degree are on our own private journey, and yes to one
degree or another, we all need a wake up call. Medicare we need and we also need the means
to pay for it, but it must be within the reach of all.
The problem is people like our American friend have no idea how this country works and the
will of the people. They don't know other things about the world either. Take Ms Clinton, she
chastised China as a founding member of the UN to do more about human rights in China.
To start with, China was not a founding member of the UN. The China that founded the UN
was indeed Taiwan, not Mainland China at all. In fact The Peoples Republic of China did
not become the legitimate member of the UN until, I think about 1971.
Why is it that so many Americans see the rest of the world through their own eyes, and if it
does not measure up to their standard then the rest of the world is wrong. To be sure there
is a lot to criticize in other parts of the world, but to me the real national shame, is that the
people of America have millions of people who have no health coverage they can afford and
that segment of society lives in conditions often lower than that of the poverty in other parts
of the world.
Even in the midst, of wealth, many of the worlds citizens are condemned by their own ignorance
spurred on by feelings of superiority. I was asked by joffen what he was ill informed about and
my only answer for him is he is ill informed about life in general as it exists outside of his own
narrow view of the planet. Only the slow downward spiral of his own universe will help him to
wake up. Unfortunately we to some degree are on our own private journey, and yes to one
degree or another, we all need a wake up call. Medicare we need and we also need the means
to pay for it, but it must be within the reach of all.