A two-state solution for Canada?

[Machjo]

First of all, he wasn't required to move out of the province. The laws of the province are as they are and he chose not to deal with them by studying elsewhere. This seems to have been his choice from what you describe.

And what you describe would happen in a two state solution anyway, getting more independence wouldn't mean the end of language laws. I don't see any sense in letting people slip through the law because they supposedly don't intend in staying in Quebec after. All immigrants would start saying ''they're just here a few years anyway''...

The reason we expect immigrants to learn French is for them to integrate and be active members of Quebec society.

First off, he'd never applied as an immigrant but was in Canada on a tourist visa initially, which was then changed to a student visa. So immigration has nothing to do with this.

Now as for Quebec's language laws, yes I agree they would not necessarily change after separation, and that he'd still have had to move out. Maintaining close ties though would at least give the option of leaving for Ontario. Total separation would remove that option.

And I'll just reply to something JLM mentioned too, about people from Gatineau working for the Federal government in Ottawa. I'd met an Ontarian once who'd married a Quebecer, settled in Charlevoix, and ended up working in the medical field for the Quebec provincial government.

In principle, this policy would continue to allow Canadians to seek such employment in Quebec if they wanted it. So it would still benefit English-Canadians too. Besides, how do you know there are no doctors living in Ottawa and working in Gatineau?

 

[Johnnny]

Canada has adopted two languages as our official languages. Quebec the province has only one. That should tell you that the rest of canada is trying to accomodate the french and Quebec is honestly not trying anything to integrate in canada. Just cry and whine like babies..

They dont care about anyone else but themselves. OH MONTREAL IS TOO ENGLISH... Big f u c k ing deal Northern Ontario is fairly french and you dont see me whining about them being in Ontario. As far as i care they can stay there. But if your english in Quebec your assulting their culture with just your english speaking presence alone.

 

[BUTSeriously]

Yeah, what the blankety blank blank has Egypt got to do with Quebec.

The current Canadian PM has stated clearly his support for Israel's rights. The Canadians have an implicit obligation in respecting justice elsewhere before settling their own.

Canada is also a nation which has been performing Heil Hitler salutes at the UN the past 60 years, calling a death to Israel 3-state as a 2-state, supporting the re-dumping of the name Palestinian applied exclusively to Jews for 2000 years - onto those busting for another holocaust: rocket science says these are covert and stealth genocidal premises with no alternative readings possible. Canada is a nation which slammed its doors tight when the Jews were fleeing W.W.II Europe.

That's what! The pollution is not with the climate.

 

[lone wolf]

So start a thread and don't hijack this one....

 

[Johnnny]

Like honestly i can go to Northern Ontario and read signs and be served with no Problem in ENGLISH AND FRENCH.....

You go to Quebec you arent offered the same courtesy. Its like the Quebec people are so paranoid about their culture that they have become xenophobic pricks..... AND to them its our fault........

And this is the truth folks.

 

[s_lone]

Like honestly i can go to Northern Ontario and read signs and be served with no Problem in ENGLISH AND FRENCH.....

You go to Quebec you arent offered the same courtesy. Its like the Quebec people are so paranoid about their culture that they have become xenophobic pricks..... AND to them its our fault........

And this is the truth folks.

The truth Johnny is that there are places in Quebec where you can easily get served in English and that there are many places in Ontario where you can't get served in French.

The truth is more complex than you'd like it to be.

 

[Machjo]

Like honestly i can go to Northern Ontario and read signs and be served with no Problem in ENGLISH AND FRENCH.....

You go to Quebec you arent offered the same courtesy. Its like the Quebec people are so paranoid about their culture that they have become xenophobic pricks..... AND to them its our fault........

And this is the truth folks.

While I agree to a degree, you're way over-exaggerating here. You could easily function in English in many parts of Montreal and Gatineau. In fact, I'd say you're likely to have more success in English in more parts of Quebec than in English Canada in French, as long as you don't get involved in government administration in any way.

You should consider though that just as most English-speakers in Canada don't know French, so most French-speakers in Quebec also don't know English. Clearly if you go way off the beaten tourist path, then yes English will be difficult, as would be expected.

Again I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, but you are way over-exaggerating. I'd come across some pretty-francophobic comments when I'd lived in BC too on at least one occasion, so it's not just a one-way street.

The truth Johnny is that there are places in Quebec where you can easily get served in English and that there are many places in Ontario where you can't get served in French.

The truth is more complex than you'd like it to be.

Agreed. Even here in Ottawa most English-speakers are not functional in French.

 

[gerryh]

The current Canadian PM has stated clearly his support for Israel's rights. The Canadians have an implicit obligation in respecting justice elsewhere before settling their own.

Canada is also a nation which has been performing Heil Hitler salutes at the UN the past 60 years, calling a death to Israel 3-state as a 2-state, supporting the re-dumping of the name Palestinian applied exclusively to Jews for 2000 years - onto those busting for another holocaust: rocket science says these are covert and stealth genocidal premises with no alternative readings possible. Canada is a nation which slammed its doors tight when the Jews were fleeing W.W.II Europe.

That's what! The pollution is not with the climate.

still trolling

 

[Johnnny]

Obviously but its not that complex. Whereever there is a sizable french community in Ontario accomodations are made to help that community. Like everything thats on a board is also in french. Ive seen french only signs with no english in Ontario in places like hearst, sturgeon falls etc etc.... I went to quebec even montreal and everything was still french. Big deal i found english people, its no different than a french person finding a french speaker in northern ontario.

And yes you can get served in french in Ontario if you go through government channels and talk to anyone walking the streets. Even in hamilton to an extent..... I cant even get a ****ing government job in ONTARIO cause i dont speak french. I wonder if some quebecer doesnt speak english is he still elegable for a government job in Quebec? Yes he is

Communities organize Ontarioan francophone festivals and events no problem. I wonder if there are anglo celebrations in quebec similar to what goes on in Ontario. Sudbury for example has them all the time.. Does the city of montreal organize anglo days for english speakers?

 

[Machjo]

I wonder if some quebecer doesnt speak english is he still elegable for a government job in Quebec? Yes he is

Federal? That depends. In Montreal probably not since there is plenty of competition for bilingual posts. IN most other parts of Queebc, more likely owing to a lack of bilingual competition.

Provincial government? Well, there as you can imagine a knowledge of English would be a more secondary trait.

Even here in Ontario, to work for the Provincial government, a knowledge of French is likely to be less crucial than at the Federal level.

Then again, as per the proposal in the OP, many federal services would switch to the new national governments, so in the context of a two-state solution, federal bilingualism would really be a moot point.

Communities organize Ontarioan francophone festivals and events no problem. I wonder if there are anglo celebrations in quebec similar to what goes on in Ontario. Sudbury for example has them all the time

In Montreal, plenty.

 

[JLM]

Like honestly i can go to Northern Ontario and read signs and be served with no Problem in ENGLISH AND FRENCH.....

You go to Quebec you arent offered the same courtesy. Its like the Quebec people are so paranoid about their culture that they have become xenophobic pricks..... AND to them its our fault........

And this is the truth folks.

Yeah, it's pretty bad when a sign that you erect on your OWN property has to be in French. If I lived there I'd erect a sign in Lower Mongolian and tell them to go f**K themselves. :lol: Or maybe it's Outer Mongolia.

 

[Johnnny]

Yeah, it's pretty bad when a sign that you erect on your OWN property has to be in French. If I lived there I'd erect a sign in Lower Mongolian and tell them to go f**K themselves. :lol: Or maybe it's Outer Mongolia.

In Ontario there are 25 areas that are designated to receive services in their native french. Which i honestly dont care about. It adds to Ontario's rich culture. What i cant stand are these god damn goofy sepratists from any province.

 

[BUTSeriously]

So start a thread and don't hijack this one....

OK, I've said my piece here. If you can call a 3-state in Palestine as a 2-state, and use different math for Canada - go ahead!

 

[Unforgiven]

Not only stupid, it's not even a question right now. Quebec isn't going anywhere and neither is any of the other provinces. Those few minority crybabies that can't compete on the federal political stage can finger wag and mouth off all they want but they like almost everyone else know that there is no separation without bloodshed.

Look at how few soldiers we have in our military. While separation looks good on paper, you actually have to get off your ass and kill a few people in order for anyone to respect your borders. I don't see any of these guys doing the talking, able to walk the walk, so don't fret, we're more likely to be sold to the US than fight our own civil war.

 

[s_lone]

Not only stupid, it's not even a question right now. Quebec isn't going anywhere and neither is any of the other provinces. Those few minority crybabies that can't compete on the federal political stage can finger wag and mouth off all they want but they like almost everyone else know that there is no separation without bloodshed.

Look at how few soldiers we have in our military. While separation looks good on paper, you actually have to get off your ass and kill a few people in order for anyone to respect your borders. I don't see any of these guys doing the talking, able to walk the walk, so don't fret, we're more likely to be sold to the US than fight our own civil war.

My wife asked for a divorce the other day... I beat the **** out of her!!!

That's not true of course. My point is that it's possible for some form of rupture to occur without bloodshed.

Unless you're a frickin' barbarian.

 

[Unforgiven]

My wife asked for a divorce the other day... I beat the **** out of her!!!

heh heh

That's not true of course. My point is that it's possible for some form of rupture to occur without bloodshed.

Unless you're a frickin' barbarian.

Yeah I can just take your **** and you can like it. Then no blood shed. But understand that the opposite is not met with the same results. I am a barbarian. So this is how it goes.

 

[BUTSeriously]

Canadians should just demand to be a state in US of A. Beats the croissants out of vichy France in Eurostan! Please consider.

 

[s_lone]

heh heh



Yeah I can just take your **** and you can like it. Then no blood shed. But understand that the opposite is not met with the same results. I am a barbarian. So this is how it goes.

What is ''your ****'' exactly? The St-Lawrence river? Would that belong to you because your great-great-great-great ... ... ... great grand daddy won a contest of who had the biggest balls on the Plains of Abraham 250 years ago?

 

[El Barto]

Obviously but its not that complex. Whereever there is a sizable french community in Ontario accomodations are made to help that community. Like everything thats on a board is also in french. Ive seen french only signs with no english in Ontario in places like hearst, sturgeon falls etc etc.... I went to quebec even montreal and everything was still french. Big deal i found english people, its no different than a french person finding a french speaker in northern ontario.

And yes you can get served in french in Ontario if you go through government channels and talk to anyone walking the streets. Even in hamilton to an extent..... I cant even get a ****ing government job in ONTARIO cause i dont speak french. I wonder if some quebecer doesnt speak english is he still elegable for a government job in Quebec? Yes he is

Communities organize Ontarioan francophone festivals and events no problem. I wonder if there are anglo celebrations in quebec similar to what goes on in Ontario. Sudbury for example has them all the time.. Does the city of montreal organize anglo days for english speakers?

Yup there is , it's called Townshipers day

Again , way too much emotions in this thread that logic takes a side door to the debate

 

[JLM]

canadians should just demand to be a state in us of a. Beats the croissants out of vichy france in eurostan! Please consider.

f**k off!