Too many cops on leave WITH pay?

[captain morgan]

That's a double edged sword JLM

 

[CDNBear]

. I don't think legal aid includes lawyers of the calibre of say F. Lee Bailey.

Now you're talking American defense lawyers.

Another difference would be the difference in sentencing between rich and poor and prestigious and obscure.

Or even white v native. The list is huge, and again, your issue is with the justice system, not Police Service policy.

 

[JLM]

Now you're talking American defense lawyers.


Or even white v native. The list is huge, and again, your issue is with the justice system, not Police Service policy.

Yep, off the top I just couldn't think of the name of such a prestigious Canadian defense lawyer, although I know we have lots. I thought the Charter was supposed to trump all other policies.

 

[lone wolf]

Greenspan

 

[CDNBear]

I thought the Charter was supposed to trump all other policies.

It does. Can you prove that Police Services policy, regarding paid suspension, is against the Charter? I would think since it's premise is based on innocence until proven guilty and the Charter right of due process, that that would be impossible.

Can you show me how a Police officer convicted of an indictable offence and not given the sentence you think is appropriate, is against the Charter?

I can't for the life of me think of how due process is against the Charter. In fact, I think it is enshrined in the Charter, in Chapter 4.

 

[JLM]

It does. Can you prove that Police Services policy, regarding paid suspension, is against the Charter? I would think since it's premise is based on innocence until proven guilty and the Charter right of due process, that that would be impossible.

Can you show me how a Police officer convicted of an indictable offence and not given the sentence you think is appropriate, is against the Charter?

I can't for the life of me think of how due process is against the Charter. In fact, I think it is enshrined in the Charter, in Chapter 4.

I'm going to give you this one Bear, as I am going mainly on appearances as I don't SEE equality in matters before the courts. I bet there are others who are more erudite than I who will take up the argument. :lol:

Greenspan

I just googled him, he would definitely fit the description although I believe he isn't well known in the West. I guess Peter Firestone and Chris Considine would be others.

 

[ironsides]

I cannot see how a policeman who is charged with a crime would not have his salary suspended till after the trial decides guilt or innocence. Suspension of pay is not a presumption of guilt and should not be considered as such.

 

[JLM]

I cannot see how a policeman who is charged with a crime would not have his salary suspended till after the trial decides guilt or innocence. Suspension of pay is not a presumption of guilt and should not be considered as such.

I agree, I would think suspension of pay is justified where the boss sees an inability for an employee to fulfill his job description.

 

[CDNBear]

I'm going to give you this one Bear, as I am going mainly on appearances as I don't SEE equality in matters before the courts.

I love a man who can concede. It shows maturity and intelligence. Just another reason to show you respect.

I bet there are others who are more erudite than I who will take up the argument. :lol:

They'll fail at the gate as well.

I fully grasp what you're trying to say. But the Charter isn't the issue.

Lax hiring standards, a lazy justice system, and so on would seem to be the cause of your justifiable ire.

 

[Cannuck]

Lax hiring standards, a lazy justice system, and so on would seem to be the cause of your justifiable ire.

It isn't even lax hiring standards. They have to pretty much take what they get as there are so few who want the job. They need better pay and benefits or something to attract more people to apply.

 

[JLM]

It isn't even lax hiring standards. They have to pretty much take what they get as there are so few who want the job. They need better pay and benefits or something to attract more people to apply.

I'd be in favour of raising pay and benefits, BUT it would have to be in conjunction of raising the bar of suitability and ability so we don't get "cowboys" like this a&&hole in Kelowna or the four nincompoops at Vancouver airport in Oct. 2007.

 

[CDNBear]

It isn't even lax hiring standards. They have to pretty much take what they get as there are so few who want the job. They need better pay and benefits or something to attract more people to apply.

Although I somewhat agree, I'd like to see the data that assisted you in formulating that opinion.

They aren't hiring Cops all the time in Ontario here. So much so in fact, it makes the news when they hire new Officers.

And as far as I'm aware, the OPP and York Regional Forces, have not dropped their aptitude and psych test minimums in the last 20 years.

 

[gerryh]

I'd be in favour of raising pay and benefits, BUT it would have to be in conjunction of raising the bar of suitability and ability so we don't get "cowboys" like this a&&hole in Kelowna or the four nincompoops at Vancouver airport in Oct. 2007.

Just curious as to the reason for using the funny letters instead of S's in asshole.

 

[petros]

. I don't think legal aid includes lawyers of the calibre of say F. Lee Bailey. Another difference would be the difference in sentencing between rich and poor and prestigious and obscure.

Some can repay their debt to society quicker than others so they get less time. If you are a producer or high end consumer it's a loss to the economy.

 

[Machjo]

Innocence until proven guilty.

It's when he's proven guilty that the hammer should fall and in the case of abuse of authority, it should fall the hardest.

Fair enough. But then does this also apply to the private sector? If a person has to go to court, is he paid for the time he can't go to work? And what about the self-employed? Does the government provide assistance while he's away from his work?

I honestly don't know the answer to this, but it would seem that it ought to be the same.

 

[Cannuck]

Although I somewhat agree, I'd like to see the data that assisted you in formulating that opinion.

They aren't hiring Cops all the time in Ontario here. So much so in fact, it makes the news when they hire new Officers.

And as far as I'm aware, the OPP and York Regional Forces, have not dropped their aptitude and psych test minimums in the last 20 years.

I wouldn't know about the OPP or the YRP. I was referring to the RCMP. You don't need data to make a discernment there. All you would have had to do is drive through Bow Island Alberta last year and stop at the local detachment.

 

[JLM]

Just curious as to the reason for using the funny letters instead of S's in asshole.

Just to be polite about it, Ger. Also when you type in some words, you get a bunch of ***************.

Fair enough. But then does this also apply to the private sector? If a person has to go to court, is he paid for the time he can't go to work? And what about the self-employed? Does the government provide assistance while he's away from his work?

I honestly don't know the answer to this, but it would seem that it ought to be the same.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is just one big myth- the country has thousands of "innocent until guilty" guys in jail awaiting trial. That's one of the biggest jokes in the justice system. :lol:

 

[Machjo]

Just to be polite about it, Ger. Also when you type in some words, you get a bunch of ***************.



"Innocent until proven guilty" is just one big myth- the country has thousands of "innocent until guilty" guys in jail awaiting trial. That's one of the biggest jokes in the justice system. :lol:

And if found innocent, are they compensated for the trouble?

 

[JLM]

And if found innocent, are they compensated for the trouble?

I think it would depend on having enough money to hire a cracker jack lawyer and winning a law suit.

 

[CDNBear]

Fair enough. But then does this also apply to the private sector? If a person has to go to court, is he paid for the time he can't go to work? And what about the self-employed? Does the government provide assistance while he's away from his work?

The only way you'd be compensated in the private sector, is if you have a negotiated policy in your work place.

Seeing as the average citizen doesn't work in an atmosphere where they would be subject to false accusations, such as a police officer, I wouldn't think it a prudent sticking point in a negotiation between management and say the guy who slides a widget in a beer can.

I honestly don't know the answer to this, but it would seem that it ought to be the same.

I don't.

You don't need data to make a discernment there. All you would have had to do is drive through Bow Island Alberta last year and stop at the local detachment.

So you're basing your opinion on what you saw, or from a conversation you had with the Officers? Or both? And could you expand on that a little please, I'm sincerely interested in what you have to say about your experiences here.