Couple abort twin boys in quest to have a daughter

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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Praxius. While I understand what you mean from a very baseline logical argument, the other side, the side that decides if people are worthy of kids or not, disagrees wholeheartedly. Mainly because anyone who is willing to go to such lengths to design their family is suspect in their ability to love their child no matter what life may bring, such as brain damage at birth, crippling infections as an infant, disfiguring car accidents, etc. Once you've placed such a huge qualifier on your willingness to raise a child, essentially declaring that half the possible babies (and even two ACTUAL fetuses) are not good enough for your purposes, then your willingness to raise future childrem well, raise them lovingly, despite flaws that may arise, is highly in question.
That is precisely how most IVF patients view it. The few who seek selection generally attempt to have their babies adopted out rather than abort. Yet, I've seen people run out of support communities for just complaining about not being successful in their desired gender results.
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
17,545
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The story of an Australian couple who aborted twin boys because they want to use IVF to ensure they have a daughter is attracting a lot of attention, especially among pro-lifers, and understandably so since the case seems to foreshadow an ethics-free future of eugenics.

But the couple, who want a girl to replace the infant daughter they recently lost, is so far still barred by Australian law from pursuing their quest for a female baby. The state of Victoria, where the unnamed couple lives, does not allow sex selection using IVF unless it is done to avoid the risk of the baby's inheriting a genetic abnormality or disease.

An independent group, known as the Patient Review Panel, recently rejected the couple's bid, so they are taking their case to the next level, the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal, which is to hear their arguments in March.

"After what we have been through we are due for a bit of luck. We want to be given the opportunity to have a girl," said the man. The couple already have three sons.

According to the Herald-Sun newspaper of Melbourne, which interviewed the couple, the woman, who is in her thirties, is "consumed by grief over the daughter who died soon after birth" and admits she has "become obsessed with having a daughter and it has become vital to her psychological health."

The husband told the newspaper that it was the couple's "right" to try this route. "It's ridiculous that sex selection is illegal, actually. For certain circumstances it should be legalized."

An Australian pioneer in IVF, Gab Kovacs, agreed. "I can't see how it could possibly harm anyone," he said.

"Laws should be made to protect people from things that are going to damage them. Why should we make this illegal? Who is this going to harm if this couple have their desire fulfilled?"
...

[full article here]

I am by no means a staunch Pro-Life Advocate(I believe in cases where the mother is in danger if she carries to term, as well as with rape, that the woman should be allowed to have an abortion if she wants), but this just isn't right. They should not be allowed to have this IVF procedure ever. If they wanted a daughter that badly, why the hell couldn't they have just adopted? Stuff like this just boggles my mind.

I want to add a couple of things.

1. I wonder what their three sons think of all this? If I was one of the sons, I couldn't help but think "That could have been me had I not been born when I was.".

2. If they are successful with getting a daughter, I wonder what she would think of this happening when she gets older(as make no mistake, she WILL find out from someone)?
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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Lets not forget that the vast majority of people on a per pregnancy basis who would consider gender selection aren't people going through IVF. They are the fertility machines who can't stop having kids and already have 6 boys. This story is an anomaly, that's why it's in the news.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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I've never understood the 'need' to have kids of one gender or the other. I know people who felt the need to have a son to 'carry on the family name', others who desperately wanted a daughter.

I figured that having a healthy, happy child was important; the gender was simply not important. It is what it is. Why is gender so important? What is it that makes people 'need' to have a son or a daughter?
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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I've never understood the 'need' to have kids of one gender or the other. I know people who felt the need to have a son to 'carry on the family name', others who desperately wanted a daughter.

I figured that having a healthy, happy child was important; the gender was simply not important. It is what it is. Why is gender so important? What is it that makes people 'need' to have a son or a daughter?
I know of one who has 6 boys and wants a daughter. Not sure why but that goal drives her to produce more kids.
 

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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That's what I don't get. So what does that say about her youngest son? That he's not good enough for her, he will never live up to her expectations? That he can never be what she wanted him to be?

My wife once asked me how I felt that we would only have daughters, and I told her that made no difference to me, children are what they are, and want them to be happy and successful, and they'll be loved. That's it.

I have no idea why any parent would need a son vs a daughter. What exactly do you plan to do with / to your children that you require a specific gender?
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
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What the hell is the matter with people?
So many people out there trying to have kids and not succeeding, and these two want a tailor made kid. Buy a dog for god sake.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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In the bush near Sudbury
I am reluctantly pro-choice in that abortion isn't right by me and I would definitely argue against it - but it's not me who has to live with the consequences either. Murdering two boys just so one could have a girl is just that: Murder. i don't give a damn what legislation supports their deed. Tailor families is a bit over the top in my book.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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You can only imagine what kind of parents they would make. Willing to kill their children if they don't match the spec sheet. It's criminally insane!
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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The story of an Australian couple who aborted twin boys because they want to use IVF to ensure they have a daughter is attracting a lot of attention, especially among pro-lifers, and understandably so since the case seems to foreshadow an ethics-free future of eugenics.

But the couple, who want a girl to replace the infant daughter they recently lost, is so far still barred by Australian law from pursuing their quest for a female baby. The state of Victoria, where the unnamed couple lives, does not allow sex selection using IVF unless it is done to avoid the risk of the baby's inheriting a genetic abnormality or disease.

An independent group, known as the Patient Review Panel, recently rejected the couple's bid, so they are taking their case to the next level, the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal, which is to hear their arguments in March.

"After what we have been through we are due for a bit of luck. We want to be given the opportunity to have a girl," said the man. The couple already have three sons.

According to the Herald-Sun newspaper of Melbourne, which interviewed the couple, the woman, who is in her thirties, is "consumed by grief over the daughter who died soon after birth" and admits she has "become obsessed with having a daughter and it has become vital to her psychological health."

The husband told the newspaper that it was the couple's "right" to try this route. "It's ridiculous that sex selection is illegal, actually. For certain circumstances it should be legalized."

An Australian pioneer in IVF, Gab Kovacs, agreed. "I can't see how it could possibly harm anyone," he said.

"Laws should be made to protect people from things that are going to damage them. Why should we make this illegal? Who is this going to harm if this couple have their desire fulfilled?"
...

[full article here]

SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK- Being either a son or daughter of this trash certainly wouldn't be any picnic.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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I will reiterate that IVF as mentioned in this topic is a red herring. Nearly everyone doing IVF couldn't give a damn if they had a boy, girl or Martian. Sex selection is an issue predominantly in the fertile population.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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I will reiterate that IVF as mentioned in this topic is a red herring. Nearly everyone doing IVF couldn't give a damn if they had a boy, girl or Martian. Sex selection is an issue predominantly in the fertile population.

Yes, that's certainly true. People who need help to conceive don't care what sex the child is, only that a child is conceived.
 

eh1eh

Blah Blah Blah
Aug 31, 2006
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Under a Lone Palm
I will reiterate that IVF as mentioned in this topic is a red herring. Nearly everyone doing IVF couldn't give a damn if they had a boy, girl or Martian. Sex selection is an issue predominantly in the fertile population.

Right. Except for these people. IVF is not the culprit. These people are. I believe in freedom of choice when it comes to abortion but fetuses of convenience kind of pushes the boundary.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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I will reiterate that IVF as mentioned in this topic is a red herring. Nearly everyone doing IVF couldn't give a damn if they had a boy, girl or Martian. Sex selection is an issue predominantly in the fertile population.

a red herring? It seems to me that the article quite plainly states that this couple sought sex selection through IVF and were turned down because of policies in place. I don't get how that's a red herring when it's simply stating the facts and policies surrounding the case.