Under what condition should we initiate war against North Korea?

[petros]

We already are at war with North Korea. The last one isn't over yet.

 

[Machjo]

We already are at war with North Korea. The last one isn't over yet.

You are right. So, I wonder if negotiating peace could possibly solve the problem. After all, as long as we're in an official state of war, of course North Korea will be fearful all the time. If we could negotiate a reasonable peace agreement, maybe we could argue for some kind of common citizenship for all Koreans on both sides along with freedom of movement for all Koreans across Korea, while still leaving the North Korean government alone. That could be a first step towards Korean unity.

Now of course the North might not be that stupid and recognize this as subversive. If that's the case, then what about some kind of opening up policy similar to China's, whereby we'd open up for trade, exempting military industries of course, or some other step in a positive direction?

 

[petros]

Peace deal no, armistice yes.

 

[Machjo]

Peace deal no, armistice yes.

An armistice is what we have now. If the world is satisfied with that, fine. However, an armistice is not stable. Sooner or later either peace must be reached or war must resume. One or the other. The question is which. Or I suppose armistice could remain forever, but I can't see that.

 

[petros]

Right now we have a cease fire. A long one but it is still merely a ceasefire. Armistice means no arms build up like it would mean with a peace deal. Peace deals are BS anyway.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Assuming North Korea does not launch an all-out assault on the south I can see few reasons for Canada to become involved in any war on the Korean Peninsula. North Korea is a dog on chain held by China. A war would seriously interfere with Chinese economic goals and the Chinese have made it quite clear that they do not want a war and I suspect the Korean leadership is smart enough to respect that wish. All that needs to happen is to wait until the Northern regime collapses and unity will occur. It may not happen overnight, but the policies of the North Korean government have impoverished the country to such an extent that its economic collapse is inevitable.

In the meantime the rest of the world will have to tolerate the North Korean child's temper tantrums and attempts to get the rest of the world to pay attention to it. Withholding aid from the North each time it misbehaves might be a message that Pyongyang will understand, but going to war should be last on the list of responses.

 

[Machjo]

Assuming North Korea does not launch an all-out assault on the south I can see few reasons for Canada to become involved in any war on the Korean Peninsula. North Korea is a dog on chain held by China. A war would seriously interfere with Chinese economic goals and the Chinese have made it quite clear that they do not want a war and I suspect the Korean leadership is smart enough to respect that wish. All that needs to happen is to wait until the Northern regime collapses and unity will occur. It may not happen overnight, but the policies of the North Korean government have impoverished the country to such an extent that its economic collapse is inevitable.

In the meantime the rest of the world will have to tolerate the North Korean child's temper tantrums and attempts to get the rest of the world to pay attention to it. Withholding aid from the North each time it misbehaves might be a message that Pyongyang will understand, but going to war should be last on the list of responses.

Then looking at it that way, why not help to develop the country now so as to give it a headstart.

What kind of aid are we giving it right now? If its food, why not cut that aid and replace it with educational aid for North Korean farmers, to upgrade their agricultural skills. After all, just as we don't want North Korea to be dependent on us now, we won't want it to depend on us in future either. So why not start now to educate its population? Sure the North will want such education to be strictly technical. But heck, even that will help open up the minds of the people. After all, won't they find it strange that the West is hiring South Korean experts to go North to educate them? Certainly they'll clue in that, oh, we don't have these skills anywhere in the North and so have to import foreign teachers.

But I don't think we should give North Korea any aid whatsoever beyond educational. At least educational aid goes straight to the people. Any material aid just goes to feed the regime.

 

[Cliffy]

Death to Tyrants.

I think you are rather selective as to which tyrants you would kill. At least half of the tyrants in the last 50 years or so were put in place and/or supported the the United States of aggression. I think you mean death to tyrants that are not on our friends list.

 

[ironsides]

If there could be a peace, why hasen't it happened in the past 60 years, that little tyrant/tyrants have a death grip on the country and don't seem to want to budge, so now we don't budge, unite Korea into one Democratic country,

I have never heard of a revolutionary movement in N. Korea, not that there couldn't be. Wonder if there is one?

A couple of points.......

1. Forget the United Nations. China has a veto.

2. If the USA is fully on side, the war won't go 4 months...........in fact, it probably won't go 4 weeks. Unless the Chinese get involved.

3. (Before they start)....this is NOT Iraq. These people will be absolutely shell-shocked at being liberated, but there are no internal tribal hatreds to burst into full bloom at the first flush of freedom........the Koreans, north and south, are one people.

Being that the 1950 Korean war was not resolved could a Russian and or Chinese veto this time be effective. They maybe able to just reinstate hostilities based upon treaty violation with a majority vote.

 

[petros]

If there could be a peace, why hasen't it happened in the past 60 years, that little tyrant/tyrants have a death grip on the country and don't seem to want to budge, so now we don't budge, unite Korea into one Democratic country,

Both are broke. If reunited who is going fund the unification? When money is owed is there really a democracy? You know it doesn't work here so why try to export it on other people?

 

[taxslave]

Sounds extremely optimistic, considering that Iraq had major internal divisions, was crippled by a 10 year embargo and had no advantageous terrain (i.e. it's flat) and still managed to last two weeks in combat and about 4-5 weeks overall (nevermind the insurgency...)

North Korea can mobilize 2 million soldiers, it's entire population has undergone military training at some point, tunnel networks (including undergound airbases) and caches exist, et al.
And the fact that most of the country is mountainous does make a huge difference as well.


It doesn't look particularly good for us, especially if you've been keeping with the news in Afghanistan, in that the Americans are having problems with old men in the mountains with rusted enfields. I hate to think of our successes going up against a Korean Dictator with 2 million soldiers, tanks appearing from behind our lines (tunnel networks), and at the same time our Generals would probably be too distracted with the chaos in Seoul.

Mobilizing and suppling are two entirely different things. It is also debatable whether any of the population would fight given a chance for liberation. One well placed bomb would cure the problem.

 

[gopher]

Whatever standard you use, just be sure it is the same standard you would employ against the USA.

 

[earth_as_one]

I'm a pacifist, but I voted "other answer". If attacked by a rabid animal, non-violence isn't the appropriate response. I agree with FiveParadox.

I cannot think of any situations that would warrant, in my view, an attack unless it is a response to an act of war. In the case of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, this is further complicated by the fact that there is already a state of war between the DPRK, and the Republic of Korea, and recent attacks between the two have simply been instances within this pre-existing state of warfare.

In the context of Canada, I am of the view that we should avoid any half-assed "armed interventions" at any point in our future, and suggest, instead, that only an issue so serious as to warrant an actual declaration of war, following the proper constitutional procedures, should bring an intervention from us. Recall, of course, that proper declarations of war may only be made, on the advice of ministers, by His Excellency the Right Honourable David Johnston C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D., the Commander-in-Chief in and over Canada. If we are unwilling to make such a serious decision, then we have no place sending the women and men of the Canadian Forces into danger.

 

[Trotz]

Mobilizing and suppling are two entirely different things.

Mobilizing wouldn't take long as those 2 million servicemen are standing personal as opposed to a conscripted mass. Nevertheless, if the Americans couldn't take Iraq in less than 2 weeks, there should be enough time for everyone to get into uniform and equipped for warfare.

In regards to supplies, if the stories about DPRK are true, than there are caches of food.

It is also debatable whether any of the population would fight given a chance for liberation. One well placed bomb would cure the problem.

This is North Korea; not South Korea. If anything, the North Koreans probably took a lot of inspiration from their former Japanese occupiers. The North koreans have been raised since birth to regard Kim as a god, their enemies are subhuman and will fight to the death!

On the other hand, the South Koreans are going to be extremely reliant on conscripted video gamers and starcraft champions who have known no hardship (or exercise) in their life. The morale problems in South Korea have been noted for decades hence the reason the U.S. Army has to maintain a presence there.

 

[Colpy]

I think you are rather selective as to which tyrants you would kill. At least half of the tyrants in the last 50 years or so were put in place and/or supported the the United States of aggression. I think you mean death to tyrants that are not on our friends list.

Well, you got to pick your fights......dammit, I'd like to do away with them all....Karzai, the Sauds, etc etc etc...........

But let's start at the top..........North Korea, then Iran.......Syria maybe????

 

[petros]

WOW 11 thru 15 on the psychopath "mirror".

Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Unable to feel remorse or guilt
Extreme narcissism and grandiose
May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

 

[earth_as_one]

Well, you got to pick your fights......dammit, I'd like to do away with them all....Karzai, the Sauds, etc etc etc...........

But let's start at the top..........North Korea, then Iran.......Syria maybe????

How are you rating these countries?

Number of unprovoked wars they've started? How about the number of dead civilians? Most children used as human shields?

 

[ironsides]

Both are broke. If reunited who is going fund the unification? When money is owed is there really a democracy? You know it doesn't work here so why try to export it on other people?

Don't know about you, but I'm happy with the way I live, would probably live a similar life if I lived in S. Korea. S. Korea is in much better shape than N. Korea. As to how will give them a jump start, probably the U.S., Canada, Japan and maybe even China.

 

[Trotz]

North Korea is not that backwards,
it still has a human life development better than most countries in the world and its cities were pretty much identical to the ones in the Soviet Union. Pyongang in particular has pretty good infrastructure.

Most of the actual cost; however, will come in the form of providing social services and creating a functioning economy. Which is a lot more difficult when you are intregrating an comparatively impoverished country into a far richer one (as seen in Germany).

Easier to have the North remain independent, adopt a free market and act as a "mini-China", although I figure it would be a matter of time until the nationalists force an unification.

 

[ironsides]

Latest Korean Conflict Attributed to Disputes Over ‘Park-ing’ Spaces

By Don Davis

“WITH THE SURNAME ‘PARK’ SHARED BY ABOUT ONE-THIRD OF THE POPULATION IN BOTH SOUTH AND NORTH KOREA, CONFUSION OVER ASSIGNED ‘PARKING SPACES’ IN THE DMZ WAS BOUND TO LEAD TO A RENEWAL OF HOSTILITIES.”

How are you rating these countries?

Number of unprovoked wars they've started? How about the number of dead civilians? Most children used as human shields?

AMSTERDAM – The prosecutor of the International Criminal Court said Monday he has opened an preliminary investigation into possible war crimes by North Korea resulting from its recent clashes with South Korea.
Luis Moreno-Ocampo said that after receiving complaints, his office is looking at the Nov. 23 shelling of Yeonpyeong Island and the sinking of South Korean warship the Cheonan in March to see whether they constitute war crimes.

International court investigating North Korea - Yahoo! News