Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "YES"

[JLM]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Piecework is fine in theory, but have you noticed that it is women who are most likely to be employed in piecework at far below the national average even though the jobs that they do require a degree of skill that most men could not match?

Now that I think about it, yes I do. Things like knitting and other crafts. But that is just the nature of the "beast". Knitting Indian sweaters takes many hours & the women who do it are extremely adept and talented but an Indian sweater as nice as it is can only fetch so much money. Truth be known knitters are probably working for $2 or $3 an hour. Same thing with orchard jobs picking.

 

[Praxius]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

In 2004/5, 63.7% of high-school dropouts were male!
Provincial drop-out rates
And, in a recent Globe and Mail (male) article, 40% of male high-school students in Quebec drop out! And, the trend is not much different in the rest of Canada.
The lost boys of Quebec - The Globe and Mail

So, are male students too stupid to complete high school in greater numbers? Or, are our schools failing once again?

Way to over-simplify the situation using limited information from statistics.

Let's look at this from a more realistic standpoint shall we?

Most males can drop out of school and still get jobs..... usually labor jobs, but they can get them none the less, with very little education.

Women on the other hand, still have more difficulties in doing this same action and need the additional advantage of having education on a piece of paper to back them up..... otherwise what does one have to look forward to?

Tim Hortons or Subway..... some generic cashier's job.

It sucks to say, but that's the reality of it today..... still.

Guys don't need the education as much as women do in order to make a life for them.

My ex-room mate dropped out of high school around grade 9 and went into construction, etc..... he's now a roofer and while I graduated high school and wasted my time and money on three diplomas for something I later realized I could have learned to do on my own, online and for free..... my ex-room mate who dropped out of school in grade 9 is still making more money then I am..... so explain that to me.

If I knew then what I know now, I might have taken the same route...... are they more stupid?

I'm starting to think they're friggin geniuses.

Besides learning how to read/spell, basic math like adding, subtracting, multiplication and division..... tell me exactly what else school has taught you that you actually used in the real world.

As far as I can tell, for me personally, nothing..... everything else was a complete waste of time.... I felt it was a complete waste of time back when I was in school, and it turns out looking back, that I was right.

Besides those basics I noted above, everything else I use today, I gained from my time in college.... and as mentioned before, even that stuff I found out later, one could get everything they needed to learn all that online for free..... all you need is basic google searching skills, a hand with at least one finger to click the mouse and the ability to read..... everything else falls in place.

Maybe some of those who dropped out are indeed stupid and just can't do any of what they're being taught..... then again maybe many of them just don't give a damn about any of it and know most of what they really need to know from school, they already learned in grade 4.

Added:

Oh and considering even after all my education and thousands of dollars spent for that education, it took me 3-4 years to find a job in my trained field due to "Not having work experience" which is a wonderful catch 22 if you ask me.... and spent those years working at Sobeys and other minimum wage jobs just to survive and pay off those loans..... and the job I finally got in my field treated me like total crap and only gave me a buck more above minimum wage....... once again.... someone tell me what's better?

Going through what I went through for bones being tossed....... or quitting all that BS, save yourself some time & money and just becoming an apprentice in an auto body shop, construction or some other labor job to get a decently paying job faster, for far less expense on your part?

 

[Machjo]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

In 2004/5, 63.7% of high-school dropouts were male!
Provincial drop-out rates
And, in a recent Globe and Mail (male) article, 40% of male high-school students in Quebec drop out! And, the trend is not much different in the rest of Canada.
The lost boys of Quebec - The Globe and Mail

So, are male students too stupid to complete high school in greater numbers? Or, are our schools failing once again?

It's not as simple as that. Cultural factors need to be taken into account too. For instance, do parents and teachers treat boys differently, even if only subtlety and unconsciously? I'm not saying it's the case, but before we can come to any conclusion, that needs to be considered too.

 

[Praxius]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

The top 1000 things on a male high-school student’s mind.
1. Cleavage
2. Short skirts
3. His penis
4. Food
5. Fast cars
6. Video games
7. Sports
8. His abs
9. Part-time jobs
.
.
.
996. The subjunctive
997. The conservation of momentum
999. The fundamental theorem of algebra
1000. Canadian history
How can schools reverse this order?

Nice way to over-simplify men with lame trollish insults, as if we all thought this way back then and as if your above list is any sort of a legitimate form of argument..... now who's the intelligent one?

 

[JLM]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Nice way to over-simplify men with lame trollish insults, as if we all thought this way back then and as if your above list is any sort of a legitimate form of argument..... now who's the intelligent one?

Not you- if you had even the slightest inkling about Spade you would expect a little tongue in cheek from time to time. :lol::lol:

 

[Praxius]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Not you- if you had even the slightest inkling about Spade you would expect a little tongue in cheek from time to time. :lol::lol:

Well you know me.... I take things literally. ;-)

 

[karrie]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Nice way to over-simplify men with lame trollish insults, as if we all thought this way back then and as if your above list is any sort of a legitimate form of argument..... now who's the intelligent one?

praxius, what do you think of the question Spade is actually asking.... how do schools turn these dropout rates around? He's pointed out that schools are to blame in his opening post with his somewhat rhetorical question. He's comically pointed out via his list that boys have much more personally interesting issues on their minds than the technicalities of highschool education, and asked how the schools are to change it. Rather than nitpick about how he's posed the question, do you have an answer for it?

 

[JLM]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

praxius, what do you think of the question Spade is actually asking.... how do schools turn these dropout rates around? He's pointed out that schools are to blame in his opening post with his somewhat rhetorical question. He's comically pointed out via his list that boys have much more personally interesting issues on their minds than the technicalities of highschool education, and asked how the schools are to change it. Rather than nitpick about how he's posed the question, do you have an answer for it?

Actually the forum could use a few more guys like Spade. :smile:

 

[TenPenny]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Rather than nitpick about how he's posed the question, do you have an answer for it?

Why do we need an 'answer' for it?

Are you stating that there is some intrinsic requirement for every male to have a high school diploma?

 

[karrie]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Why do we need an 'answer' for it?

Are you stating that there is some intrinsic requirement for every male to have a high school diploma?

Actually, yes, I am. I see no reason NOT to have all students get a highschool diploma. I've seen young men leave school with their diploma in hand and a trade and some cash under their belt through highschool apprenticeship programs. I've seen young men leave school with honours and head off to university on the academic route. I see no reason, with adaptable education, for there to be any kids who don't finish highschool in some way shape or form.

 

[Cliffy]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

I don't know what it is like now but when I was in school I found it mind numbingly boring. The only reason I finished high school is because my dad put the fear of god into me. What I could use in real life I could have learned in one year, the rest was just filler.

 

[Praxius]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

praxius, what do you think of the question Spade is actually asking....

All I saw was the claim that men are "That much more stupid then women" because they drop out, with the side question on if it's the school's fault that they're so stupid..... then a joke post listing off what men in their teenage years think about...... which to me sure made it sound as though he supported the claim.

how do schools turn these dropout rates around? He's pointed out that schools are to blame in his opening post with his somewhat rhetorical question.

Somewhat rhetorical? Exactly how does one make a "Somewhat-Rhetorical" question?

His opening statement was pretty neutral in it's position until the following post of the list, which obviously was a joke with no foundation of fact, but without any further explanation, only leaned towards one position.

He's comically pointed out via his list that boys have much more personally interesting issues on their minds than the technicalities of highschool education

That's one way to interpret what he said...... but since he didn't clarify his position or his joke towards his own position..... and considering I don't have direct access to his facial expressions from where I am sitting when he posts...... plus the lack of little yellow faces in the post to determine how something should be taken...... I interpreted another way.

That's the funny thing about the internet.

and asked how the schools are to change it. Rather than nitpick about how he's posed the question, do you have an answer for it?

Sure.... don't change it.

Seriously, why bother? Anything beyond grade 8 or 9 is a complete waste of time as I explained in my first post......

That's right children, you heard Uncle Praxius right..... I am the role model for all to follow and aspire to..... :lol: (though only half joking)

 

[Curiosity]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

I had a thought which may be unpopular with the group but I'll write it anyway. Not certain if this is gender related or not -

Unfinished work - we in our enlightened culture are expected to complete twelve years of rudimentary schooling (or alternative if our career choices are in other fields and offer training equal to high school).

If a student drops out or finds work without completing the "twelve years" which has become symbolic our society for education for our young - there will always be a stigma - even if not with other people - but with the student him/herself - that old unfinished drop out kind of drag we carry with us and rarely speak about.

Sometimes we are too young in mental years to "know" what those twelve rudimentary years of schooling will bring to us. I hated high school and loved a job I had part time - but when I wanted to advance myself in life I was unable to find acceptance in a Canadian University because I had such a rotten attitude for the last three years of formal schooling.

After maturity (and hunger for what I really wanted to do) finally kicked in I was ready to work, study, pay my way - whatever - but I cruised through high school, aimless as a toddler....I could not see the point in the pain of attending a place I disliked so much where I could see no benefit from my presence there.

No matter what you want in your life, you are fortunate if you can identify what would satisfy and then be able to secure the means of getting your goal pinned down. It's worth it.

 

[JLM]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

I had a thought which may be unpopular with the group but I'll write it anyway. Not certain if this is gender related or not -

Unfinished work - we in our enlightened culture are expected to complete twelve years of rudimentary schooling (or alternative if our career choices are in other fields and offer training equal to high school).

If a student drops out or finds work without completing the "twelve years" which has become symbolic our society for education for our young - there will always be a stigma - even if not with other people - but with the student him/herself - that old unfinished drop out kind of drag we carry with us and rarely speak about.

Sometimes we are too young in mental years to "know" what those twelve rudimentary years of schooling will bring to us. I hated high school and loved a job I had part time - but when I wanted to advance myself in life I was unable to find acceptance in a Canadian University because I had such a rotten attitude for the last three years of formal schooling.

After maturity (and hunger for what I really wanted to do) finally kicked in I was ready to work, study, pay my way - whatever - but I cruised through high school, aimless as a toddler....I could not see the point in the pain of attending a place I disliked so much where I could see no benefit from my presence there.

No matter what you want in your life, you are fortunate if you can identify what would satisfy and then be able to secure the means of getting your goal pinned down. It's worth it.

I think you have it right, Curio. Society demands that you have passed this arbitrary "test", which supposedly means you have succeeded at something. Fifty years ago, at least after passing the "test" we were at least grammatical in our speech and able to spell properly. Today I don't even see that much. "Like you know, he went and then she went and then wow f*&$".

 

[Spade]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Role of Education

 

[gerryh]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Role of Education

from the same site:

The Role & Goal of Education
[Some thoughts for Students, Parents & Teachers]​

Thoughts for Teachers​

1. Teachers as Transmitters of Morality :
In order to do this, teachers must be restored to their traditional role as the transmitters of morality, the builders of character and the custodians of culture.

2. PARTNERSHIP between TEACHERS & STUDENTS :
Teachers must relinquish the idea that they are fountains of all knowledge. Rather, they should form a partnership with their students in a shared learning process, demonstrating by their example that they too, are learners. This can have a liberating effect on students in that it helps them to see themselves as directors of their own learning and as individuals, who can determine the course their lives will take.

3. Teachers deserve respect:
A corollary is that the teacher must enjoy the support of the greater community, a respect that flows logically from recognizing the teachers' true station.

4. Teachers behaviour to encourage children:
Teachers need to practise patterns of behaviour that create a climate of encouragement in the classroom. 5. All humankind are as children in a school and the dawning-points of light, the sources of divine revelation, are the teachers, wonderous and without peer. In the school of realities they educate these sons and daughters, according to teachings from God, and foster them in the bosom of grace, so that they may develop along every line, show forth the excellent gifts and blessings of the Lord, and combine human perfections, that they may advance in all aspects of human endeavour, whether outward or inward, hidden or visible, material or spiritual, until they make of this mortal world a wide-spread mirror, to reflect that other world which dieth not. 6. Therefore, O loved ones of God! Make a mighty effort till you yourselves become tokens of his advancement and of all these confirmations, and become focal centres of God’s blessings and promoters of the gifts and graces of civilized life. Be the vanguards of the perfections of humankind; carry forward the various branches of knowledge, be active and progressive in the field of inventions and the arts. Endeavour to rectify the conduct of men, and seek to excel the whole world in moral character. 7. While the children are yet in their infancy feed them from the breast of heavenly grace, foster them in the cradle of all excellence, rear them in the embrace of bounty. Give them the advantage of every useful kind of knowledge. Let them share in every new, rare and wonderous craft and art. Bring them up to work and strive, and accustom them to hardship. Teach them to dedicate their lives to matters of great import, and inspire them to undertake studies that will benefit mankind. 8. It is clear that learning is the greatest bestowal of God; that knowledge and the acquirement thereof is a blessing from Heaven. Thus it is incumbent upon the friends of God to exert such an effort and strive with such eagerness to promote divine knowledge, culture and the sciences, that for long those who are school children today will become the most erudite of all the fraternity of the wise. This is a service rendered unto God Himself, and it is one of His inescapable commandments. 9. Utilize Every Means to make this school a garden of the All-Merciful, from which the lights of learning will cast their beams, and wherein the children will be educated to such a degree as to become God’s gifts to mankind, and the pride of the human race. Let them make the greatest progress in the shortest span of time, let them open wide their eyes and uncover the inner realities of all things, become proficient in every art and skill, and learn to comprehend the secrets of all things even as they are/this faculty being one of the clearly evident effects of servitude to God’s Threshold. 10. EDUCATE LIKE A GARDENER :Cultivation by the farmer maketh of the grain the harvest, and the efforts of the gardener maketh of the seed a noble tree. The gentle teacher promoteth the children of the school to a lofty altitude and the bestowal of the trainer placeth the little child upon the throne of ether. Therefore, it is demonstrated and proved that minds are different in the original entity or nature and that education commandeth a decided and great influence. Where there is no educator all would remain savage and were it not for the teacher the children would be ignorant creatures. 11. SPIRITUAL EDUCATION :From the very beginning, the children must receive divine education and must continually be reminded to remember their God. Let the love of God pervade their innermost being, co-mingled with their mother's milk. 12. Pursuit of Knowledge : Although to acquire the sciences and arts is the greatest glory of mankind, this is so only on condition that man's river flows into the mighty sea, and draws from God's ancient source His inspiration. When this cometh to pass, then every teacher is as a shoreless ocean, every pupil a prodigal fountain of knowledge. If, then, the pursuit of knowledge lead to the beauty of Him Who is the Object of all Knowledge, how excellent that goal; but if not, a mere drop will perhaps shut a man off from flooding grace, for with learning cometh arrogance and pride, and it bringeth on error and indifference to God. 13. SCIENCES ARE BRIDGES TO REALITY :The sciences of today are bridges to reality; if then they lead not to reality, naught remains but fruitless illusion. By the one true God! If learning be not a means of access to Him, the Most Manifest, it is nothing but evident loss. 14. FOUNDATION OF HUMAN EXCELLENCE :The education and training of children is among the most meritorious acts of humankind and draweth down the grace and favour of the All Merciful, for education is the indispensable foundation of all human excellence and alloweth man to work his way to the heights of abiding glory. If a child be trained from his infancy, he will, through the loving care of the Holy Gardener, drink in the crystal waters of the spirit and of knowledge, like a young tree amid the rolling brooks. And certainly he will gather to himself the bright rays of the Sun of Truth, and through its light and heat will grow ever fresh and fair in the garden of life. 15. DEVELOPMENT OF CHARACTER :We must favour character and conduct above the sciences and arts. Good behaviour and high moral character must come first, for unless the character be trained, acquiring knowledge will only prove injurious. Knowledge is praise worthy when it is coupled with ethical conduct and a virtuous character; otherwise it is a deadly poison, a frightful danger. 16. AIM OF EDUCATION : CHARACTER:These children must know that high moral character must come first, for unless the character be trained, acquiring knowledge will only prove injurious. Knowledge is praise worthy when it is coupled with ethical conduct and a virtuous character; otherwise it is a deadly poison, a frightful danger. 17. SPIRITUAL BEHAVIOUR :In a time to come, morals will degenerate to an extreme degree. It is essential that children be reared in the God's way, that they may find happiness both in this world and the next. If not, they shall be beset by sorrows and troubles, for human happiness is founded upon spiritual behaviour. 18. SPIRITUAL EDUCATION :Education is of various kinds. There is a training and development of the physical body which ensures strength and growth. There is intellectual education or mental training for which schools and colleges are founded. The third kind of education is that of the spirit. Through the breaths of the Holy Spirit man is uplifted into the world of moralities and illumined by the lights of divine bestowals. The moral world is only attained through the effulgence of the Sun of Reality and the quickening life of the divine spirit. For this reason the holy Manifestations of God appear in the human world. They come to educate and illuminate mankind, to bestow spiritual susceptibilities, to quicken inner perceptions and thereby adorn the reality of man, the human temple with divine graces. 19. TEACHER AS GUIDE :Blessed is that teacher who shall arise to instruct the children, and to guide the people to the pathways of God, the Bestower, the Well-Beloved.

[Home] [Role of Education] [Goal of Education] [A few words for the Son/Daughter] [A few words for the Parents] [Afew words for the Father]
[A few words for the Husband] [A few words for the Mother] [A few words for the Wife] [A few words for Marriage] [Thoughts for Family]
[Thoughts for Teachers] [Some of the Teachings of God] [Food for Thought] [More Food for Thought]​

 

[Spade]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Perhaps the notion that the child - male or female- sacrifices little when dropping out to enter the workplace resides in the belief that schooling is merely training in skills necessary to slip seamlessly into the ambient culture. That notion ignores a more nurturing role of education.

This role empowers the individual to engage in a lifetime of active learning, to question his world critically, and to assume responsibility to effect change in himself and in his society when appropriate.

We do not want smiling idiots who accept unflinching what they are told on the job, by government, or by institutions. Without their activism, democracy is but an empty word.

 

[Praxius]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Actually I think I understand what the whole purpose of schooling really is.

From Primary to say Grade 8 or 9, you are taught the basics one needs to get around in everyday society.... spelling, English, math, etc...... but beyond that, your taught other things you may never use unless you head into a particular area of work..... which in most cases, you're retrained and educated in those things when you take up the proper college/university course.... or go into apprenticeship.... or hired directly into a job.

So really, what's the point of grades 9-12?

Students at that age are still minors.... teenagers..... they can't be just sent out of the schools back to their parents to deal with while they're working.... and at the same time, most are either still too young to legally enter the work force or just not all that up to it because all their lives they're taught they need to complete high school in order to get any sort of job outside of paperboy/girl.

So rather then letting these kids head out from school at grade 8 or 9, they add on Grades 10, 11 and 12, they add on all this other crap like biology, chemistry, pre-cal and calculus math and reading Shakespeare as if those things are truly needed in everyday jobs (which once again, they're later re-trained in anyways through college or university if and when they're ready to take that route in life if they're interested.)

In other words.... those grades exist to keep minors in school during the work day while they're parents are workings, as.... in a nut shell...... a teenage day care.

That's it really.

Honestly, in my everyday life and the profession I am in right now (which I went to college for) there is not one single thing I was taught in grades 10, 11 or 12 that I'm actually using today...... nothing.

And the whole argument that most jobs won't even look at your resume if you didn't graduate high school?

So what? Write down that you did......

Sure I graduated high school..... I even got three colleges on my resume along with it...... but not one single job I have applied to has ever actually checked to confirm what I wrote down was actually true.

They see it on there and if I can talk the talk and walk the walk..... most simply don't have the time to go through all those resumes and confirm the information on them..... nor do most even give a damn..... they want to know if you can do the work they need.... if you can, it doesn't matter if you went to Harvard or Clown College in Bangladesh.

Heck, even if someone wanted to do a confirmation about where I went to college, they couldn't, because the college I went to went tits up a year after I graduated and considering my diplomas were designed in such a way I could easily duplicate them myself and make them look legit like any other diploma...... who's going to really know?

But I don't have to do any of that because I did go through the process of graduating high school and graduating college....... only to learn after the fact that I wasted my time and money because every job I ever applied to never bothered to seek any proof that I did.

 

[Ariadne]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

My grade 10 son returned from school yesterday very excited about having done a real experiment in Science class. (The school had forms regarding safe practice in the Science lab, so I'm sure there will be no lawsuits related to suffering brain damage from electrocuting nipples in class.) This is my son's first exposure to authentic learning in the field of science. Experiences like this could lead him in new career choices. He is also on the football team, a team sport where everyone has each other's backs on and off the field. The team wears ties, and the school provides a high carb lunch, on game day. This is a really important social development for him. He's becoming more self aware in a safe environment, surrounded by others that are similarly experiencing the craziness of peaking and plummeting hormones. He commented that his moods swing a little after a game ... I told him it's normal ... that everyone his age is experiencing mood swings ... that he should sit back and watch the girls go through their mood swings if he's looking for an amusement ... because they can be all over the place with the hormones. He is given tasks with deadlines, and learning that success means completing those tasks no matter what. He did not learn any of this in his first 9 years of schooling ... instead he repeatedly learned the same tasks with a little more information each time. For example, he learned about long hand division, later he learned the quick method. He didn't learn cursive writing because teachers can't be bothered to teach it ... justifying their laziness by claiming that everything is done on computer (sure it is). He learned how to write a sentence, later a paragraph, then a series of paragraphs about the same thing, and now he's learning essay writing.

Skills taught in high school should be taught sooner, but they aren't. I would suggest that if someone wants to skip a few years of schooling, it should be grades 4-9, not 10-12.

As for proof of credentials, I have been asked to provide that proof in the form of original documents for interviews in the last four positions I've held. I had to re-order documents because I'm too irresponsible to put them in a safe place ... but without them, I would not have been offered the position. I'm sure that some positions are not interested in credentials, but many professional jobs do need proof.

 

[petros]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Life is easy. All you have to do is show up.